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Next Round of Chinese Tariffs Set to Begin Aug. 23

Going to get uglier before it gets better?

China is too big to allow themselves to just rolled by Trump. Nationalism and state run media can help keep support through a downturn.

Meanwhile we're a democracy with an unpopular president, and businesses and Trump voters are starting to lose jobs and money.

Who's going to blink?
 
Why don’t China just stop forcing transfer of American technology/IP and open up more trade for American products so no tariffs from US? Is that not fair?
 
Mai72 said:
https://www.breitbart.com/big-gover...alized-for-august-23-by-trump-administration/

I think China is at a huge disadvantage here and should give in, and kiss Trump's ass. The thing is China wants to show that they can stand up to us. It's also a pride issue with China, and they don't want to lose face.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

You do realize you aren't in agreeance with liberal media bias, right? They are too busy telling us that the US will be the big loser.

Meanwhile, the USD continued to climb while the Chinese Yuan continues to fall... Yet the Chinese media propaganda keeps releasing stupid attack articles saying that they will win.

That's because the market doesn't bullshit. It doesn't care about your feelings.

Not saying I know what is right here - just giving the present day stats. So far it looks like the US is winning, China is trying to act as if they are... Meanwhile, economists and investors know otherwise...
 
baydude said:
Why don’t China just stop forcing transfer of American technology/IP and open up more trade for American products so no tariffs from US? Is that not fair?
Click to expand...

They are getting even more butt-hurt these days because they don't have the cheap labor advantage anymore. Now that has been taken over by the likes of India, Indonesia, etc...
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
They are getting even more butt-hurt these days because they don't have the cheap labor advantage anymore. Now that has been taken over by the likes of India, Indonesia, etc...
Click to expand...


But I don’t get it from China’s perspective, if all they have to do is open up some markets for America and maybe encourage Chinese companies to be more innovative instead of stealing, wouldn’t they be in a better position? Or does opening markets for US mean more competition for their own companies which would result in similar loss vs more US tariffs?
 
baydude said:
But I don’t get it from China’s perspective, if all they have to do is open up some markets for America and maybe encourage Chinese companies to be more innovative instead of stealing, wouldn’t they be in a better position? Or does opening markets for US mean more competition for their own companies which would result in similar loss vs more US tariffs?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if China doesn't want to open up markets because it would reveal the massive corruption behind the scene in their business world. Their government is balls deep in what company is profitable there, because of huge bribes needed to government officials. They probably aren't as innovative as the US and need to steal tech to keep up because the brightest isn't rewarded there, it's those who can grease the government palms better. We have corruption on our side as well but China is leaps and bounds worse than us.
 
China is playing a long term game while America is just interested in the next quarter. That is the reason that China is not going to blink first, because they know if they can hold out just long enough to make the next quarter returns be bad America will freak out. Then China will offer some concessions that will make first quarter FY19 profits look good and China will have gotten IPs and technology that they will be able to use for decades.
 
China, really Xi, is playing for the next few decades not the next quarter. Ripping off western IP is how they intend to fast forward their development. Dumb Trump is focused on the trade deficit like it's a corporate balance sheet.

Also the odds of China backing down when doing so would involve losing a huge amount of face because of Trump's rhetoric seems pretty low.
 
DrunkenSano said:
I wouldn't be surprised if China doesn't want to open up markets because it would reveal the massive corruption behind the scene in their business world. Their government is balls deep in what company is profitable there, because of huge bribes needed to government officials. They probably aren't as innovative as the US and need to steal tech to keep up because the brightest isn't rewarded there, it's those who can grease the government palms better. We have corruption on our side as well but China is leaps and bounds worse than us.
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stealing tech is also a lot faster than trying to develop it yourself.
 
baydude said:
But I don’t get it from China’s perspective, if all they have to do is open up some markets for America and maybe encourage Chinese companies to be more innovative instead of stealing, wouldn’t they be in a better position? Or does opening markets for US mean more competition for their own companies which would result in similar loss vs more US tariffs?
Click to expand...

This isn't about manufacturing on the Chinese side. They are the elephant in every political room right now, and like it that way. If they capitulate to these tarriffs, they will lose a lot of the soft-power they've generated through their manufacturing domination. It doesn't matter what it costs them monetarily, they are rich beyond belief. The government can easily tell the US to screw off, cover the losses of the Chinese companies for them, and wait for the US to suffer through it and realize that we simply don't have the economic power to pull through this. Trump's bluster isn't enough when you can't back it up.
 
SMOGZINN said:
The thing is they are not stealing it. They are buying it from short sighted companies in exchange for access to their labor and markets.
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That is completely incorrect. They have stolen technology, from bullet trains to jet engines to car manufacturing. They literally have copied products down to every nut and bolt and sold them inside China. When they do that, the profit because they don't have to pay for the R&D and they gain engineering and manufacturing competence.
 
China is at a huge disadvantage? Why? They probably think there's a very good chance that Trump will be gone soon. There's a reason they are targeting red battleground states, the rest of the world wants this boob out. They play the long game, they have the huge advantage by being able to subsidize and control WAY more than we can. It hurts them, but it hurts us too. As you say, losing face is a huge deal there and they'll take the pain.
 
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SMOGZINN said:
The thing is they are not stealing it. They are buying it from short sighted companies in exchange for access to their labor and markets.
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i thought there was some law that required an outside company to partner with a local chinese one in order to sell their goods in china?

though i agree that, either way, companies are being incredibly short-sighted about the situation.
 
Fenixgoon said:
i thought there was some law that required an outside company to partner with a local chinese one in order to sell their goods in china?

though i agree that, either way, companies are being incredibly short-sighted about the situation.
Click to expand...

Even if there is, that just means that is the cost of doing business in China. No American company is being required to do business in China They want to, and apparently are willing to pay that price to do so
Isn't this just government getting in the way of free enterprise decisions? Where are the libertarian-conservatives complaining about this?
 
SMOGZINN said:
The thing is they are not stealing it. They are buying it from short sighted companies in exchange for access to their labor and markets.
Click to expand...

Pulsar said:
That is completely incorrect. They have stolen technology, from bullet trains to jet engines to car manufacturing. They literally have copied products down to every nut and bolt and sold them inside China. When they do that, the profit because they don't have to pay for the R&D and they gain engineering and manufacturing competence.
Click to expand...

Both things are happening. They will take technology however they can get it.

They also throw around the weight of regulatory agencies to "incentivize" multinationals to build China market products in China rather than import.

Companies need to be very selective in dealing with them. It's a massive market, you want access, but you don't want your shit stolen. Have to setup value chains very carefully.
 
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