Next in line for a bailout....Schools

[Specop 007]

In a way I'm suprised it took this long for schools to start asking for money. I wonder if they will get it, or if other districts will be asking for money. Personally if I were a taxpayer in the area I'd be damned curious what they are doing thats got them so far in debt. Seems every school from one side to the other is always complaining about funding....

Article

Olmsted Falls school district wants a bailout, too
By Joe Milicia
Associated Press

POSTED: 04:26 p.m. EST, Dec 02, 2008

CLEVELAND: A financially ailing Ohio school district has joined the ranks of banks and automakers clamoring for a portion of the $700 billion economic bailout package.

Olmsted Falls Superintendent Todd Hoadley said Tuesday that if automakers and cities like Philadelphia, Atlanta and Phoenix can ask for TARP money, schools should be able to follow suit.

"I feel a moral obligation to our taxpayers to make this attempt," said Hoadley, who requested $100 million from the Treasury department last week. "This is a legitimate request. I'll be frankly disappointed if something positive doesn't come out of this."

The district has buckled under rising enrollment and strained finances, with some schools forced to convert maintenance closets into classrooms.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has said the Troubled Asset Relief Program, known as TARP, was meant to stabilize financial institutions. Paulson told Hoadley the same thing when the district submitted the request directly to him last week.

The request was also sent to the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland.

But Hoadley isn't giving up ? he's also seeking help from Congressman Dennis Kucinich and U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown in obtaining bailout dollars.

Several school associations were trying to determine whether other districts have sought TARP funding. Miami-Dade Schools chief Alberto Carvalho told The Miami Herald last week that Congress should consider bailing out the nation's schools, but the district didn't apply for funding.

North Olmsted's total enrollment has swelled by 29 percent over the last decade to 3,800 students. The district would spend half of the $100 million in TARP money on building addition and renovation projects, while the other half would go toward operating expenses.

Two local ballot issues seeking additional school funding failed last month.

"We're not looking at this from a bailout standpoint. We don't want to be lumped in with failing corporations," said Hoadley. He noted that North Olmsted has long been one of the state's top-rated school districts.

Hoadley is encouraging other to make similar requests to the Treasury Department.

"Somebody has to be looking long-term," Hoadley said. "The only way we're going to dig ourselves out of this economic hole is investing in education."

So far, the Treasury Department has committed about $270 billion in TARP money for banks and another $40 billion for the insurance company American International Group.

The Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland did not respond to requests for comment.

CLEVELAND: A financially ailing Ohio school district has joined the ranks of banks and automakers clamoring for a portion of the $700 billion economic bailout package.

Olmsted Falls Superintendent Todd Hoadley said Tuesday that if automakers and cities like Philadelphia, Atlanta and Phoenix can ask for TARP money, schools should be able to follow suit.

"I feel a moral obligation to our taxpayers to make this attempt," said Hoadley, who requested $100 million from the Treasury department last week. "This is a legitimate request. I'll be frankly disappointed if something positive doesn't come out of this."

The district has buckled under rising enrollment and strained finances, with some schools forced to convert maintenance closets into classrooms.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has said the Troubled Asset Relief Program, known as TARP, was meant to stabilize financial institutions. Paulson told Hoadley the same thing when the district submitted the request directly to him last week.

The request was also sent to the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland.

But Hoadley isn't giving up ? he's also seeking help from Congressman Dennis Kucinich and U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown in obtaining bailout dollars.

Several school associations were trying to determine whether other districts have sought TARP funding. Miami-Dade Schools chief Alberto Carvalho told The Miami Herald last week that Congress should consider bailing out the nation's schools, but the district didn't apply for funding.

North Olmsted's total enrollment has swelled by 29 percent over the last decade to 3,800 students. The district would spend half of the $100 million in TARP money on building addition and renovation projects, while the other half would go toward operating expenses.

Two local ballot issues seeking additional school funding failed last month.

"We're not looking at this from a bailout standpoint. We don't want to be lumped in with failing corporations," said Hoadley. He noted that North Olmsted has long been one of the state's top-rated school districts.

Hoadley is encouraging other to make similar requests to the Treasury Department.

"Somebody has to be looking long-term," Hoadley said. "The only way we're going to dig ourselves out of this economic hole is investing in education."

So far, the Treasury Department has committed about $270 billion in TARP money for banks and another $40 billion for the insurance company American International Group.

The Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland did not respond to requests for comment.

 

[Genx87]

My question is, when hasnt the school system whined for more money? If it were upto the school system they would consume 110% of a budget. My sig discusses funding for schools and they are even quoted as saying no amount of money is enough.

Public schools are a good policy. The problem is there is little accountability for where the money goes.

 

[ArizonaSteve]

Sounds like the better solution would be to remove the child tax credit and put the extra money towards the schools. I for one am fed up with being taxed more simply because I decided not to breed.

 

[Hajpoj]

You didn't make another monkey for "them" to tax, gotta punish you some other way....



lo-de-do-de-do

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Genx87
My question is, when hasnt the school system whined for more money? If it were upto the school system they would consume 110% of a budget. My sig discusses funding for schools and they are even quoted as saying no amount of money is enough.

Public schools are a good policy. The problem is there is little accountability for where the money goes.

I think this is one of the rare times when we agree on something. No public school I've ever been in, including the school district I briefly worked for, seems to be overflowing with money...even the schools that have a fair amount of money per student. Part of me wonders whether even "a fair amount" is really enough for decent education, but another part of me wonders whether or not the money they do have is actually getting to the student and teacher level. If there is waste in the system, I think it would have to be higher up the food chain...which makes it harder to detect and deal with.

Personally I think public schooling should be something that's worth any cost to make the best it can possibly be, but it would be silly to spend money we don't need to if we can spend the money schools DO have more efficiently.

 

[Drakkon]

The problem, as I see it here especially in NV and in the education sector, is that a lot of funding for schools come from revenue generated by gambling/lottery/sports/etc - so as people spend less on those sort of things the schools don't get as much and this is what brings them into debt because school administrators seem to not plan for these sort of events, they seem to plan like the money will always be there and they can just cut the program if the money is not there. Well nowadays its not so much about programs as it is about equipment, and support staff for that equipment, and there is no way to get rid of it so that money HAS to be there in their minds to support it because they have already bought into it. Even in my own department its not about cutting costs, its about consuming the most so the least gets taken away - and every elementary, jr, and high school and college I've been to has been this way. Its kinda a catch 22, and there is not much that can be done about it as school administrators frankly aren't the best economists and never will be.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
The problem, as I see it here especially in NV and in the education sector, is that a lot of funding for schools come from revenue generated by gambling/lottery/sports/etc - so as people spend less on those sort of things the schools don't get as much and this is what brings them into debt because school administrators seem to not plan for these sort of events, they seem to plan like the money will always be there and they can just cut the program if the money is not there. Well nowadays its not so much about programs as it is about equipment, and support staff for that equipment, and there is no way to get rid of it so that money HAS to be there in their minds to support it because they have already bought into it. Even in my own department its not about cutting costs, its about consuming the most so the least gets taken away - and every elementary, jr, and high school and college I've been to has been this way. Its kinda a catch 22, and there is not much that can be done about it as school administrators frankly aren't the best economists and never will be.

Well neither are the people funding the schools, apparently. Dramatically variable funding for ANYTHING is bound to produce less than stellar results, as very few expenses are short term enough to allow for full use of a temporary budget windfall. The problem isn't that school administrators don't know how to spend money, it's that we fund schools as more of an afterthought than anything else. Having a reliable budget would help dramatically.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: ArizonaSteve
Sounds like the better solution would be to remove the child tax credit and put the extra money towards the schools. I for one am fed up with being taxed more simply because I decided not to breed.

I've always wondered why parents get a discount when they're adding to the overall tax burden. I guess you could argue their kids will eventually grow up and pay taxes so it's an investment...?

 

[dmcowen674]

I say let the schools close down.

What do we need education for when all manufacturing has been sent to China?

 

[StageLeft]

Public education is one of the most money-drunk institutions in the country. Their appetite for money is inexorable and unwavering and, wosre, utterly unapologetic. Their answer to everything is more money, and when more money doesn't do what they promised their answer is that it wasn't enough. They are drug addicts caught forever in the stage of denial. And, like addicts, they hurt those around them. Education in this country needs an intervention.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ArizonaSteve
Sounds like the better solution would be to remove the child tax credit and put the extra money towards the schools. I for one am fed up with being taxed more simply because I decided not to breed.

I've always wondered why parents get a discount when they're adding to the overall tax burden. I guess you could argue their kids will eventually grow up and pay taxes so it's an investment...?

I know I use that money that I get mostly towards my kid so that he can be raised as an outstanding citizen and contributor towards this society. In many ways, I use that tax credit far more efficiently than any government program including the public school system could ever do.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Public education is one of the most money-drunk institutions in the country. Their appetite for money is inexorable and unwavering and, wosre, utterly unapologetic. Their answer to everything is more money, and when more money doesn't do what they promised their answer is that it wasn't enough. They are drug addicts caught forever in the stage of denial. And, like addicts, they hurt those around them. Education in this country needs an intervention.

I don't think that is so much the case as the simple fact that quality education is expensive and that is all there is to it. I work in my school district and I can tell you it is not like that. Like all government programs, there are always more ways to improve efficiency, but the schools are constantly spending tons of time looking for ways to save money and hold fund raisers. They are far more conservative than you may realize. Hell, as it stands right now, our neighboring school district can't even keep the classrooms regularly supplied with toilet paper without the teachers and parents spending from their own pockets.


I think the school systems need a lot more money, but how we spend it should be the only real disagreement. Personally, I would love for them to provide public vocational schools for those who are just not the college type, but want to do something that requires a marketable skill. That sure as hell beats them graduating from HS with pretty much nothing to offer.

 

[fisheerman]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Public education is one of the most money-drunk institutions in the country. Their appetite for money is inexorable and unwavering and, wosre, utterly unapologetic. Their answer to everything is more money, and when more money doesn't do what they promised their answer is that it wasn't enough. They are drug addicts caught forever in the stage of denial. And, like addicts, they hurt those around them. Education in this country needs an intervention.

I don't think that is so much the case as the simple fact that quality education is expensive and that is all there is to it. I work in my school district and I can tell you it is not like that. Like all government programs, there are always more ways to improve efficiency, but the schools are constantly spending tons of time looking for ways to save money and hold fund raisers. They are far more conservative than you may realize. Hell, as it stands right now, our neighboring school district can't even keep the classrooms regularly supplied with toilet paper without the teachers and parents spending from their own pockets.


I think the school systems need a lot more money, but how we spend it should be the only real disagreement. Personally, I would love for them to provide public vocational schools for those who are just not the college type, but want to do something that requires a marketable skill. That sure as hell beats them graduating from HS with pretty much nothing to offer.

Actually in my area it is the exact reverse. I think I saw the numbers for the school budget vs enrollment in my area and it came out to be like $6500 per child (public school).

We have some outstanding private schools that cost around $5500 per year.

Far better eduction and learning environment for about $1000 less per student.

If you run the numbers they don't add up. Public schools are money pits and some kind of reform must be done. And don't get me started about the pros and cons of public vs private school. That would take a thread itself.

-fish

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: fisheerman

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Public education is one of the most money-drunk institutions in the country. Their appetite for money is inexorable and unwavering and, wosre, utterly unapologetic. Their answer to everything is more money, and when more money doesn't do what they promised their answer is that it wasn't enough. They are drug addicts caught forever in the stage of denial. And, like addicts, they hurt those around them. Education in this country needs an intervention.

I don't think that is so much the case as the simple fact that quality education is expensive and that is all there is to it. I work in my school district and I can tell you it is not like that. Like all government programs, there are always more ways to improve efficiency, but the schools are constantly spending tons of time looking for ways to save money and hold fund raisers. They are far more conservative than you may realize. Hell, as it stands right now, our neighboring school district can't even keep the classrooms regularly supplied with toilet paper without the teachers and parents spending from their own pockets.


I think the school systems need a lot more money, but how we spend it should be the only real disagreement. Personally, I would love for them to provide public vocational schools for those who are just not the college type, but want to do something that requires a marketable skill. That sure as hell beats them graduating from HS with pretty much nothing to offer.

Actually in my area it is the exact reverse. I think I saw the numbers for the school budget vs enrollment in my area and it came out to be like $6500 per child (public school).

We have some outstanding private schools that cost around $5500 per year.

Far better eduction and learning environment for about $1000 less per student.

If you run the numbers they don't add up. Public schools are money pits and some kind of reform must be done. And don't get me started about the pros and cons of public vs private school. That would take a thread itself.

-fish

I highly doubt that the $6500 per child amount is even close to accurate. I am not going to disclose what my district pays on average per student (excluding those that are ESE students), but let me just say that the number is tremendously less. Hell, even the ESE students are a lot less.

Regardless, the argument still stands that it is not so much about how much you spend as it is how you spend it. Don't take money away from the schools. Just change policy on how that money is spent. You have more power than you may realize when it comes to spending. You only need to apply yourself. We have parents in our district on our butts all of the time regarding spending. I think it is a good thing...depending on the parent.

 

[0marTheZealot]

America is among the worst in the industrialized world in education K-12. It's a systematic problem that won't be fixed by more money.

 

[Genx87]

Xavier where do you live that the cost per pupil is less than 6500? In minnesota the suburbs sit about 7500-9500 and the city of minneapolis is over 12K\student.