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Next-gen API benches for RX 480 & 1060.

Feb 19, 2009
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A German review site, Golem.de, is the only one to actually cover all these titles, some interesting results.

http://www.golem.de/news/geforce-gtx-1060-vs-radeon-rx-480-das-bringen-direct3d-12-und-vulkan-1607-122214.html

Ashes of the Singularity, good to see Pascal being optimized for it, so I hope people can stop saying Oxide is crippling NV on purpose. It's a Maxwell thing.



Doom w/ Vulkan



Forza 6



Hitman



Quantum Break (no longer Quantum Broken with patches a few months ago)



Total War Warhammer



Rise of the Tomb Raider (Unfortunately this is still a broken DX12 implementation, in DX11, AMD/NV gains performance)



Gears of Wars Ultimate

 

littleg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2015
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Good idea for a thread. It's good to have a wide range of benches but going forward I think the newer APIs are going to be more relevant so knowing how certain cards perform in those specifically will be beneficial.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Interesting about Forza 6 and Warhammer, im gona just ignore Ashes, Hitman (biased even on DX11) and Doom (optimised only for GCN on this patch).
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Interesting about Forza 6 and Warhammer, im gona just ignore Ashes, Hitman (biased even on DX11) and Doom (optimised only for GCN on this patch).
Well, Ashes & Warhammer are both AMD sponsored games, but they are both the closest.

Hitman is the AMD biased title while Rise of the Tomb Raider is NV sponsored and runs terrible on AMD in DX11/DX12 (while still running faster on DX11 for NV).

There's also Killer Instinct, AFAIK there was a DX12 patch for it sometime ago. I read a few gaming news articles on Windows 10 UWP, where MS would bring over Xbone franchise to UWP via DX12.

If we look at DX12 games coming in the next few months, they are not NV sponsored, it's mostly AMD sponsored titles (BF1, Deus Ex, Sniper Elite 4, Watch Dogs 2, Civilization 6) or Neutral (MS ones like Gears of Wars 4, Halo Wars 2). I wonder why that's the case, NV should really be putting $$ out there to secure these major titles.
 

Det0x

Senior member
Sep 11, 2014
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Finally a proper review for the Next-gen API's :thumbsup:

Much appreciated Silverforce11
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Well, Ashes & Warhammer are both AMD sponsored games, but they are both the closest.

Hitman is the AMD biased title while Rise of the Tomb Raider is NV sponsored and runs terrible on AMD in DX11/DX12 (while still running faster on DX11 for NV).

There's also Killer Instinct, AFAIK there was a DX12 patch for it sometime ago. I read a few gaming news articles on Windows 10 UWP, where MS would bring over Xbone franchise to UWP via DX12.

If we look at DX12 games coming in the next few months, they are not NV sponsored, it's mostly AMD sponsored titles (BF1, Deus Ex, Sniper Elite 4, Watch Dogs 2, Civilization 6) or Neutral (MS ones like Gears of Wars 4, Halo Wars 2). I wonder why that's the case, NV should really be putting $$ out there to secure these major titles.
TR has PureHair, why is NV Biased? NV performaing best on DX11 than AMD should not be a suprise.

Actually i DONT WANT a fight of titles, damn it, if we start having a "Doom w/Vulkan" scenario on games for both brands its just gona destroy PC gaming.
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
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Actually i DONT WANT a fight of titles, damn it, if we start having a "Doom w/Vulkan" scenario on games for both brands its just gona destroy PC gaming.
This is how low-level APIs work. The closer to the metal you get, the more the developer has to code for the architecture. This was talked about way back when Mantle was "supposed" to be opened up, and when DX12 was announced. A lot more is put on the developer, which isn't always a good thing.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
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TR has PureHair, why is NV Biased? NV performaing best on DX11 than AMD should not be a suprise.

Actually i DONT WANT a fight of titles, damn it, if we start having a "Doom w/Vulkan" scenario on games for both brands its just gona destroy PC gaming.
Doom Vulkan basically offers free performance and is thus a great addition. Tomb Raider on the other hand makes each brand of cards slower in DX12 so it should be considered broken.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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Finally a proper review for the Next-gen API's :thumbsup:

Much appreciated Silverforce11
Here is another one from Joker Productions:

GTX 1060 vs RX 480 DirectX 12 & Vulkan Testing

RX 480 is getting 83 fps at 1440p on Doom. Doom has to be the best optimized 1st person game released in the last decade, other than perhaps Star Wars Battlefront. It's ridiculous to have a $200-240 graphics card hitting > 80 fps averages at 1440p in one of the best looking FPS games.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
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Killer Instinct is DX11. It is just windows store based which is why it requires windows 10.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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TR has PureHair, why is NV Biased? NV performaing best on DX11 than AMD should not be a suprise.

Actually i DONT WANT a fight of titles, damn it, if we start having a "Doom w/Vulkan" scenario on games for both brands its just gona destroy PC gaming.
Why do you say NV performing best in TR is not a surprise? The previous TR was pretty close. Then NV sponsors the port of this one, AMD drops in performance. TressFX 3.0 gets called "PureHair".

I don't want PC gaming to be so biased like this either but it's too late. It's been happening for years and intensified in the past few years with GameWorks.

Look at a classic example, CoD AW, NV sponsored with early HairWorks, GodRays and PhysX, AMD runs that game horribly. Then CoD Black Ops 3, no sponsorship, AMD wins handily.

Again, Far Cry 4, NV sponsored, PhysX, HairWorks, GodRays, NV wins big time until 3 months later it got patched and AMD performance was fixed. Far Cry Primal with the same engine, no GameWorks, AMD runs faster day 1.

Whether we like it or not, PC gaming is fragmented. When AMD sponsors a game, it may or may not skew towards them a lot. But when NV sponsors a game, it's almost guarantee it skews towards NV GPUs a big way, until it's later patched.

In the old days, sites like Anandtech called out IHV specific optimizations, these days it's the norm.

It's going to intensify in DX12 and Vulkan because of the nature of these API, it's all down to how the devs code for it. AMD/NV can't intercept draw calls via their drivers to run optimized shaders like they could in DX11.

ps. You need to re-calibrate your idea of DX11 overhead or the expectation that AMD is automatically worse in DX11, because this is a myth, check this post (it's got actual facts/evidence): http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38363329&postcount=172
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
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Here is another one from Joker Productions:

GTX 1060 vs RX 480 DirectX 12 & Vulkan Testing

RX 480 is getting 83 fps at 1440p on Doom. Doom has to be the best optimized 1st person game released in the last decade, other than perhaps Star Wars Battlefront. It's ridiculous to have a $200-240 graphics card hitting > 80 fps averages at 1440p in one of the best looking FPS games.
KI isn't DX12, its DX11.

Unreal Elemental Demo isn't actually DX12 either. It was a patch by some guy and just compiled with DX12 instead of DX11 in the beta support for Unreal.

Vulkan on Talos is slower than DX9/11 and even OpenGL for some people. It hasn't been optimized very much at all and is more experimental support.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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This is how low-level APIs work. The closer to the metal you get, the more the developer has to code for the architecture. This was talked about way back when Mantle was "supposed" to be opened up, and when DX12 was announced. A lot more is put on the developer, which isn't always a good thing.
This is the truth that both sides needs to realize. DX12/Vulkan is not an auto win for AMD.

Their low level nature means they are MORE prone to gimping or sloppy dev coding than DX11 where AMD/NV can re-optimize via driver intercepts.

If devs want to gimp one architecture over another, there's nothing the IHVs can do. It puts a lot of responsibilities on developers to do it right, architecture-specific optimizations and all that. If they can't do that, stick with DX11.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
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TR has PureHair, why is NV Biased? NV performaing best on DX11 than AMD should not be a suprise.

Actually i DONT WANT a fight of titles, damn it, if we start having a "Doom w/Vulkan" scenario on games for both brands its just gona destroy PC gaming.
Nvidia sponsored the port, even gave the game away.

It includes PureHair which is open source, but also includes both VXAO (DX11, Nvidia only) and HBAO+ which are Nvidia specific gameworks features.

They also removed async compute support from the game (was used for XB1 version). I still don't know if it even works because there is 1% (margin of error) difference between having it enabled and not.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Doom Vulkan basically offers free performance and is thus a great addition. Tomb Raider on the other hand makes each brand of cards slower in DX12 so it should be considered broken.
They did work only for GCN, they only enabled async for AMD, no pascal, they said they where doing this patch to improve perf on older cards, but Kepler performas much, much worse, makes no sence.

Thats OK, but at least take the time and do some work for the other brand, its likely they did a Maxwell codepath and use it for Pascal and Kepler, that whould explain why there is no async on pascal and why Kepler performs so bad.


Now imagine if tomorrow a few games come out the oposite way, we dont need that.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
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They did work only for GCN, they only enabled async for AMD, no pascal, they said they where doing this patch to improve perf on older cards, but Kepler performas much, much worse, makes no sence.

Thats OK, but at least take the time and do some work for the other brand, its likely they did a Maxwell codepath and use it for Pascal and Kepler, that whould explain why there is no async on pascal and why Kepler performs so bad.


Now imagine if tomorrow a few games come out the oposite way, we dont need that.
The announcement of Vulkan on Doom came during the 1080 launch event when Nvidia had id up on stage.

We've been "waiting for async compute" drivers for Maxwell for a year now, still no sign of them. How long are we going to have to wait for Pascal async compute drivers for Doom before it can be considered "ok" to benchmark? It still gains vs opengl.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
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They did work only for GCN, they only enabled async for AMD, no pascal, they said they where doing this patch to improve perf on older cards, but Kepler performas much, much worse, makes no sence.

Thats OK, but at least take the time and do some work for the other brand, its likely they did a Maxwell codepath and use it for Pascal and Kepler, that whould explain why there is no async on pascal and why Kepler performs so bad.


Now imagine if tomorrow a few games come out the oposite way, we dont need that.
Do you have ANY proof for this? 99% of people don't agree with you.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Doom w/ Vulkan actually gains performance on NV GPUs too, at 1080 and 1440p, the gains are nice. It's not a regression like Rise of the Tomb Raider DX12.

Though it seems to be mostly the 1070 and 1080 that gets the gains from benches I've seen. For some reason the 1060 doesn't scale well with it.
 

Thala

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2014
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Nvidia sponsored the port, even gave the game away.
The irony is, that if they just had used the console code, we would now have great DX12 performance with the PureHair running as async shader on GCN cards.
I assume that the console port was just running a tad too good on GCN for NVidias liking, so they had to cripple it.
 

guachi

Senior member
Nov 16, 2010
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Maybe AMD is sponsoring dx12 titles because their cards run better on it.

It's only AMD bias because it's not a game nVidia is even going to play.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
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Do you have ANY proof for this? 99% of people don't agree with you.
Including the developers:

Since late March 2016 we started working daily with both AMD and NVIDIA. Both have been great partner companies, helping bring full DOOM and Vulkan driver support live to the community. There was a lot of work on all fronts but we are pleased with the results.
https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/doom-vulkan-support-now-live/2016/07/11/156

Oxide said the exact same thing, heck even worked closer with Nvidia than AMD.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Dont bring up "we work with..." BS here, it has nothing to do with what they do on this patch.

Do you have ANY proof for this? 99% of people don't agree with you.
They said that async was only enabled on GCN cards, and that they where doing this to improve perf on old cards(that seems not to include Kepler as it performs worse than in OGL). Its on the release post.

https://community.bethesda.net/thread/54585?start=0&tstart=0
Does DOOM support asynchronous compute when running on the Vulkan API?
Asynchronous compute is a feature that provides additional performance gains on top of the baseline id Tech 6 Vulkan feature set.
Currently asynchronous compute is only supported on AMD GPUs and requires DOOM Vulkan supported drivers to run. We are working with NVIDIA to enable asynchronous compute in Vulkan on NVIDIA GPUs. We hope to have an update soon.
Click here for additional information on asynchronous compute.
Pascal has some basic Async support, but they never bother to write the arch specific code for it, neither they bother to do a proper kepler code, even trought the focus of this patch was to improve perf on "old cards", as a result Kepler perf on vulkan is broken.

But for using Shaders Intrinsic Funtions, via GCN-only Vulkan extensions there is time.


Anyway, i rather AMD to lead DX12 perf for a gen or two, than see a AMD vs Nvidia title fight, its not gona be fun to be on either side if that happens.
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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Doom Vulkan basically offers free performance and is thus a great addition. Tomb Raider on the other hand makes each brand of cards slower in DX12 so it should be considered broken.
If DX12 brings new IQ features in TR, then you can't consider it broken. DX12 is not always going to be used just for performance increases. It may come with IQ increases.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
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The irony is, that if they just had used the console code, we would now have great DX12 performance with the PureHair running as async shader on GCN cards.
I assume that the console port was just running a tad too good on GCN for NVidias liking, so they had to cripple it.
I agree. It's sad that performance was pretty much removed on purpose to drag down performance. :(

I'm curious if the sponsorship is time limited? Would be nice for the developers just to put back the original GCN DX12 console code into the game. Even unoptimized for discrete GPUs I'd wager it would shoot Radeon card performance through the roof.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Dont bring up "we work with..." BS here, it has nothing to do with what they do on this patch.
Why? Are you telling me they're working with Nvidia but aren't actually doing any work on the Nvidia codepath? What is Nvidia wasting their time for then? Isn't this somewhat telling?
 

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