News: Sager NP9860 Announcement - PCI-E and SATA Support
- Thread starter ActuaryTm
- Start date
Wow! Sounds like one should wait if one were in the market for a gaming notebook right now. Many new technologies in this model.
Wow, that's stacked; but with all those fans, it looks like it might double as an emergency hovercraft.
That is not a notebook that is a brick poo house. LOL... I wager u could build a SFF for under 12.5 lbs.. Bunch of nice stuff but man. I wager it will cost an arm n 3 legs if the guys catch my drift.
Will G
Will G
- Mar 30, 2003
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This particular DTR is meant for an entirely different sect of users, not all of which are game-oriented.
Not including an LCD, unfortunately - unless one opted for a lunchbox style machine (even then, note "Average Weight : 40lbs"). I live in NYC (which entails walking everywhere), and own an NP8890 which runs just over 12 pounds, and do not find it difficult to carry in a shoulder bag. Do not believe the same could be said of a SFF machine.
Sager/Clevo machines are actually quite affordable. The closest current model to the NP9860 would most likely be the NP8790, which runs far less than most would think considering the specifications. The NP3790 even moreso, though it is much more portable and has much more in the way of battery life as it is designed for a much different group of end-users.
The only conceivable important use for such a big, heavy "laptop" would be to do a software demo, where you wanted to show how awesomely fast your server software could run on a, er, "laptop". Of course, you could still get better performance out of a well-constructed SFF machine, which'd be about as easy to shlep around. You can always find a display at the client.
an entirely different sect of users
What, pray tell, are the non-gamer "sects" of which you speak? West-coast cultists, who'll worship the monolith a la the opening scene of "2001"? (nice advert though)
an entirely different sect of users
What, pray tell, are the non-gamer "sects" of which you speak? West-coast cultists, who'll worship the monolith a la the opening scene of "2001"? (nice advert though)
- Mar 30, 2003
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There are a number of power users that require the capabilities of a desktop in a more mobile package.
Personally, am an independent actuarial consultant. "Proof of concept" is often a case where a machine such as this comes into play. OLAP/ROLAP/MOLAP applications - even on a desktop - can bog down, when designed to run in a more server-like environment. Having a portable machine (and these machines are indeed more portable than a SFF) to display a concept or demonstration or even to perform actual work at a client location certainly gains not only a competitive edge, but also quite a bit of business.
There are other cases as well, of course. Sager/Clevo type machines are extremely popular among multimedia content developers, photographers, CAD/CAM designers, financial consultants (personally know a stock analyst who runs quite a number of extensive stock analyzation applications on his Sager), etc.
If may be difficult for some users (certainly those with limited experience in such matters) to imagine a need for such a machine; that however does not imply such a need does not exist, of course.
Personally, am an independent actuarial consultant. "Proof of concept" is often a case where a machine such as this comes into play. OLAP/ROLAP/MOLAP applications - even on a desktop - can bog down, when designed to run in a more server-like environment. Having a portable machine (and these machines are indeed more portable than a SFF) to display a concept or demonstration or even to perform actual work at a client location certainly gains not only a competitive edge, but also quite a bit of business.
There are other cases as well, of course. Sager/Clevo type machines are extremely popular among multimedia content developers, photographers, CAD/CAM designers, financial consultants (personally know a stock analyst who runs quite a number of extensive stock analyzation applications on his Sager), etc.
Cannot speak for all clients, but believe my clients would find that rather unprofessional, likened to a school boy showing up to class without one's assignment complete. SFF machines certainly have their place and quite a large niche in the market, of course; however, not for those traveling often or those that commute on mass transit. Believe they are better suited toward those short on space (small office, small desk or living conditions, etc), those that prefer a more spartan design element, students (especially those traveling home at the end of each semester), etc.
If may be difficult for some users (certainly those with limited experience in such matters) to imagine a need for such a machine; that however does not imply such a need does not exist, of course.
Okay, Mr./Ms. highly-paid Sager/Clevo sales consultant. Have it your way, but in my decade of experience in software development (including several years as a consultant), never once have I seen a need for top performance in a laptop. When you need performance, you don't depend on a laptop. I already covered software demoing, and even that is a downright stupid reason to buy one of these machines. You claim that you add value by going to a client's site and running OLAP/MOLAP stuff off your laptop? You're a nutcase, or an outright liar.
It boils down to this: people doing almost all content creation, even people who compile very large projects (as I do on a regular basis), have no need to do anything that can't be handled very well by a Pentium M. The latest Centrino laptops are faster than many medium-range servers of a few years ago. If you're doing really high-end content manipulation, movie editing etc., you get a high-end workstation, with performance the likes of which your crappy laptop brand cannot equal. And you never need to create movies on an airplane fold-out tray or whatever-- but of course, I forgot that your luggable Sager laptops won't fit there anyway.
There's a reason that Sagers have always sold almost exclusively to gamers: in the gaming "sect"or you find certain people willing to pay for top performance at ridiculous prices, or even for a "cool" look (like a stenciled painted laptop cover) for hundreds of dollars more. Then again, smart gamers prefer SFF and other machines, for better performance at a better price.
Think of it this way: you can spend a bunch of money on the latest Sager lap-crusher, or get a really portable machine that can actually run off of its battery for over an hour, is quiet, and does everything you need it to do for half the price, plus has a host of other engineering benefits that only a Sony or a Fujitsu can provide. Then a year later, if you feel like it, you can turn it in for a new one. Or, if you're not a complete idiot, you can get your money's worth out of it and keep it for a year or two more. You'll save even more money that way.
Where Sager misses the mark is in stressing performance at all costs. There's a much bigger pending market for performance in smaller, lighter laptops; read most of the posts on this forum, where people are agonizing over decisions between Thinkpad T42p's and other thin-and-light-and-powerful laptops. THOSE are dream machines. Unfortunately, they take more engineering to produce, knocking you and your Sager bosses out of the running.
Don't sweat it, though. You're not alone; I read an interview recently with a guy in charge of some division at Acer, saying that he didn't think anyone would want thin-and-light laptops with great performance. Big mistake.
By the way, if you're doing a demo at a client, you're usually using a projector, if you're an actual consultant and don't just play one on Anandtech forums. Many software vendors, though, have switched to a model where they do most of their demos over the Internet during a phone conference. It saves time and money, and is more convenient for everyone involved.
It boils down to this: people doing almost all content creation, even people who compile very large projects (as I do on a regular basis), have no need to do anything that can't be handled very well by a Pentium M. The latest Centrino laptops are faster than many medium-range servers of a few years ago. If you're doing really high-end content manipulation, movie editing etc., you get a high-end workstation, with performance the likes of which your crappy laptop brand cannot equal. And you never need to create movies on an airplane fold-out tray or whatever-- but of course, I forgot that your luggable Sager laptops won't fit there anyway.
There's a reason that Sagers have always sold almost exclusively to gamers: in the gaming "sect"or you find certain people willing to pay for top performance at ridiculous prices, or even for a "cool" look (like a stenciled painted laptop cover) for hundreds of dollars more. Then again, smart gamers prefer SFF and other machines, for better performance at a better price.
Think of it this way: you can spend a bunch of money on the latest Sager lap-crusher, or get a really portable machine that can actually run off of its battery for over an hour, is quiet, and does everything you need it to do for half the price, plus has a host of other engineering benefits that only a Sony or a Fujitsu can provide. Then a year later, if you feel like it, you can turn it in for a new one. Or, if you're not a complete idiot, you can get your money's worth out of it and keep it for a year or two more. You'll save even more money that way.
Where Sager misses the mark is in stressing performance at all costs. There's a much bigger pending market for performance in smaller, lighter laptops; read most of the posts on this forum, where people are agonizing over decisions between Thinkpad T42p's and other thin-and-light-and-powerful laptops. THOSE are dream machines. Unfortunately, they take more engineering to produce, knocking you and your Sager bosses out of the running.
Don't sweat it, though. You're not alone; I read an interview recently with a guy in charge of some division at Acer, saying that he didn't think anyone would want thin-and-light laptops with great performance. Big mistake.
By the way, if you're doing a demo at a client, you're usually using a projector, if you're an actual consultant and don't just play one on Anandtech forums. Many software vendors, though, have switched to a model where they do most of their demos over the Internet during a phone conference. It saves time and money, and is more convenient for everyone involved.
- Mar 30, 2003
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You might try reading a few of my past posts. Have recommended a number of non-Sager/Clevo machines. I do not work for Sager or Clevo, nor do I receive any compensation for any of my opinions (because, quite frankly, that is all it really is - an opinion of my own experiences).
Would hope that an intelligent individual can recognize a need even if it exists outside their own experiences.
I rely on a DTR in my line of work. Yes. In fact, other than a file server, I have abandoned a desktop completely.
Suppose I am the former then, though you are welcome to contact my clientele if you wish to do so.
Haven't had a problem with my particular machine on a plane. There is actually room enough to spare, dependent upon the seat design. Get roughly two hours of battery life from the included battery. In fact, a number of times have found plames (at least, on the JetBlue planes that run from Nyc to Orlando) that had a 120v outlet near the bulkhead. The personnel were kind enough to let me plug in, though the flight was under three hours.
Take umbrage here. Sony machines are not only some of the poorest designed but are even more poorly supported. Unfortunately have had the displeasure of wading through the Vaio world more than once (one purchase, three subsequent replacements) and found the support utterly lacking, even as a corporate client.
Actually, the 16" screen is quite sufficient for a group of 5 to 8 people. Have a portable turntable (one of the Targus models) that fits into my shoulder bag. The viewing angle is actually quite good, and the screen itself is quite impressive - even to the hardcore IT people (often I am asked, "What kind of notebook IS that?"). Of course, the few times the need has arisen to demonstrate to a large audience, of course have made use of a projector. It has been very rare such has been the case, however.
Am quite sorry you feel the need to attack Sager and Clevo machines, and for that matter myself as well. Again, you might want to read up a few of my prior posts both here and on NotebookForums.com (though I confess I do not have the time luxury to post there as often as in the past). Sager machines have their place in the DTR market (not all the machines you mention are of the DTR variety), though I certainly recommend anyone do thorough research on any machine and/or company prior to purchase. Will offer a quote of my own advice from the aforementioned NotebookForums.com in closing:
"Your final choice should be based on what in particular is best for you the end user, including (but of course not limited to) performance, support (both customer and technical), and budgetary restrictions. Be certain not to get caught up in a numbers game, in regards to performance; this unfortunately happens all too often. Also, do not put off a needed purchase waiting for the next generation of any particular component. While the motivation for such is understandable, being without a needed machine is far too costly a performance gain any newer wave of technology will afford. In short, choose the machine that best suits your needs at the time you need it."
Honest evaluation of one's needs (as opposed to wants) is the cornerstone to a successful choice. Though not often easy, once accomplished the choice is often rather facile."
You've written a nice, stuffy reply, as I expected. Please post a comprehensive list of your clients so that any of us that wishes may contact them. Note that a single posted number to a phone line with an answering machine, or several yahoo.com email addresses, will do more to hurt your cause than help.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=facile
Therefore, the conclusion to your carefully-crafted blurb may be transposed to the following:
"Though not often easy, once accomplished the choice is often rather easy."
This is even stupider than it appears at first glance. Once accomplished, a choice has obviously already been made; at that point, it can be neither easy nor hard, since there's nothing more to do. I hope for your clients' sake, in whatever imagined or real universe they may exist, that you're not a marketing consultant.
By the way, your bad writing style is all over the quote from that other forum. Do you even know the meaning of the word "facile"? It means "easy"; look it up:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=facile
Therefore, the conclusion to your carefully-crafted blurb may be transposed to the following:
"Though not often easy, once accomplished the choice is often rather easy."
This is even stupider than it appears at first glance. Once accomplished, a choice has obviously already been made; at that point, it can be neither easy nor hard, since there's nothing more to do. I hope for your clients' sake, in whatever imagined or real universe they may exist, that you're not a marketing consultant.
- Mar 30, 2003
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As the issues pertaining to this machine (which is why the thread was originally created) have since stopped and the personal attacks (or rather, attempts at personal attacks) have continued, this will unfortunately be the last reply to any further responses of this type.
Am certain you will understand that I will not share personal (the suggestion above was of course meant to be humorous, as it was in response to being called "a nutcase") client information with a complete stranger. If, however, someone was indeed interested in contacting any of them, feel free to send me a brief message via a PM or email with your personal contact information (including a phone number), and would be happy to call you myself. I would only release a client's information after personally speaking with an individual and consulting my clients in regards to the possibility of them being contacted by a third party.
Will comment however that if one reads the entire thought above:
"Honest evaluation of one's needs (as opposed to wants) is the cornerstone to a successful choice. Though not often easy, once accomplished the choice is often rather facile."
one might notice that the "though not often easy" refers to the "honest evaluation of one's needs", which can be difficult for some prospective buyers. However, once the evaluation is accomplished, the choice of machines is rather easy (which is what the above mentioned facility is referencing to).
You should go back to marketing school, on your way to grammar school. I will forever be in awe of your choice to so cavalierly dangle a preposition in the midst of an argument over the English language:
fac·ile ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fsl)
adj.
1. Done or achieved with little effort or difficulty; easy. See Synonyms at easy.
2. Working, acting, or speaking with effortless ease and fluency.
3. Arrived at without due care, effort, or examination; superficial: proposed a facile solution to a complex problem.
4. Readily manifested, together with an aura of insincerity and lack of depth: a facile slogan devised by politicians.
5. Archaic. Pleasingly mild, as in disposition or manner.
I will readily grant that you write in a facile way. It was easy for me to arrive at this conclusion.
I won't continue arguing over this with a nincompoop such as yourself, except to note that the word "facile" also carries connotations of something being half-baked and perhaps dishonest; that's why good marketers don't use it when they're going for a warm, fuzzy feeling. From dictionary.com:
fac·ile ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fsl)
adj.
1. Done or achieved with little effort or difficulty; easy. See Synonyms at easy.
2. Working, acting, or speaking with effortless ease and fluency.
3. Arrived at without due care, effort, or examination; superficial: proposed a facile solution to a complex problem.
4. Readily manifested, together with an aura of insincerity and lack of depth: a facile slogan devised by politicians.
5. Archaic. Pleasingly mild, as in disposition or manner.
I will readily grant that you write in a facile way. It was easy for me to arrive at this conclusion.
- Mar 30, 2003
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No idea. Would have though that would have been the preferable way to have a discussion of that nature. Suppose a user newer to this forum either may not have known that, or chose to ignore it; not certain which was the case.
Do not believe any of "information" (though much of the above stretches the definition of that) was really necessary to this thread, which is certainly why I ended the responses over an hour ago, and suggested contact via PM or email (did not receive either, but am not surprised).
That's just ignorant. There are a lots of people who want a gaming notebook... how about college kids that want to bring their computer home in the weekends? or people who frequent LANs? Or people like me, who game at work? 12+ lbs doesn't bother me, because i'm not carrying it wherever i'm going. Just from my house to the car, then car to my desk in the morning... and the reverse at night. For classes or for trips, i have a subnotebook for that.
You can construct a SFF machine that's just as easy to carry around? Well let me see this SFF of yours. I HAVE an SFF at home, i can guarantee you it's not as easy to carry around as a heavy notebook. I've taken my SFF to LANs before, and it still requires multiple trips to the car. But it's not only the extra trips to the car that's the problem, but also how to pack the LCD monitor. Now, all this may seem rather simple if you think about it as an infrequent activity, but when you have to do this weekly or daily, it's a pain.
Just because you don't have the means or reasons for having such a notebook, doesn't mean others don't.
That's just ignorant. There are a lots of people who want a gaming notebook...
You make a great point. I guess that's why Sager is right up there with the likes of Dell, IBM, etc. in terms of appeal. Thanks for pointing out my, um, ignorance.
Just because you don't have the means or reasons for having such a notebook, doesn't mean others don't.
I've got the means. I'm just not stupid enough to buy a Sager when I can get much better machines for less money.
You make a great point. I guess that's why Sager is right up there with the likes of Dell, IBM, etc. in terms of appeal. Thanks for pointing out my, um, ignorance.
Just because you don't have the means or reasons for having such a notebook, doesn't mean others don't.
I've got the means. I'm just not stupid enough to buy a Sager when I can get much better machines for less money.
Except Dell offers a desktop replacement that's over 12lbs as well (2 lines actually, 9100 and XPS). And i guess you've selectively decided to not mention the popularity of Alienware huh?
And i'm sure in your little world, it's enough for you. But some people want a machine that's more portable.
Except Dell offers a desktop replacement that's over 12lbs as well (2 lines actually, 9100 and XPS). And i guess you've selectively decided to not mention the popularity of Alienware huh?
Wrong, dork. 9 pounds. The XPS and 9100 lines are actually not selling well, according to my friend who works at Dell. My point is that they make their money off of normal laptops, not monster luggables. To verify your error, kindly refer to the following blurb from Dell's site:
http://www1.us.dell.com/conten...p;~tab=specstab#tabtop
"Selectively decided", what a cool term. I can tell that you're a real rocket scientist. I didn't mention Alienware because it never occurred to me to mention them in the company of IBM. I, like most people, have never even seen an Alienware laptop in person.
And i'm sure in your little world, it's enough for you. But some people want a machine that's more portable.
I'm nonplussed. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't want a Sager because it's less portable than better laptops.
I'd never tell you not to buy whatever you want with your money (although I may point out your stupidity several more times if you persist in trying to put me down). ActuaryTM chose to post an advertisement for the latest and heaviest Sager, and like everyone else I gave my honest opinion.
Wrong, dork. 9 pounds. The XPS and 9100 lines are actually not selling well, according to my friend who works at Dell. My point is that they make their money off of normal laptops, not monster luggables. To verify your error, kindly refer to the following blurb from Dell's site:
http://www1.us.dell.com/conten...p;~tab=specstab#tabtop
"Selectively decided", what a cool term. I can tell that you're a real rocket scientist. I didn't mention Alienware because it never occurred to me to mention them in the company of IBM. I, like most people, have never even seen an Alienware laptop in person.
And i'm sure in your little world, it's enough for you. But some people want a machine that's more portable.
I'm nonplussed. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't want a Sager because it's less portable than better laptops.
I'd never tell you not to buy whatever you want with your money (although I may point out your stupidity several more times if you persist in trying to put me down). ActuaryTM chose to post an advertisement for the latest and heaviest Sager, and like everyone else I gave my honest opinion.
And you forgot the 2.5lb adapter. Again, selective attention?
Sounds like the circle of people you know are just less fortunate or just don't game. Just because you don't know anybody with an Alienware notebook, doesn't mean it's not popular. Are they as popular as Compaqs or IBM? Of course not, they're targetted at completely different markets, and lets not mention that real desktop replacements are less than 2 years old... and probably didn't really flourish until the RM 9700 was released. So no, they're not as common.
Well you said the only 'conceivable important use' of one of these for server software demos... and if that really is your limit of conceptions, well, that's just sad then. And you claim that you can build an SFF machine that is as easy to 'shelp' around. Again i ask you, show me this SFF that includes a monitor and keyboard that is as easy to carry around as this notebook. No doubt my SFF is a lot easier to carry around than a typical desktop, but it's FAR from as convenient and easy as a notebook, even one as heavy as these.
I've selectively decided to reply to your latest stunning contribution to the world's nonsense.
And you forgot the 2.5lb adapter. Again, selective attention?
No, I didn't, you nincompoop. The machine itself is 9 pounds, whereas the overpriced, huge, whoppingly horribly conceived Sager monstrosity is 12.5 . You've "selectively decided" to ignore the fact that the Sager also has a power adapter. This presumably raises it to the fifteen- or twenty-pound mark, Sager engineering being what it is.
See, a bunch of tiny electrons have to go through the power adapter into the machine before it can function. You can probably squeeze about half an hour out of the Sager's battery at a time, but then you'll have to plug back in to get more of the little electrons. Is that easy enough to understand? I can explain further-- let me know.
The smallest power supply available for the XPS is listed at 1.5 pounds, and the largest at 2.4 (not 2.5). At the listed weight (with 12-cell battery) of 9.06 pounds for the machine itself, this gives a weight range of 10.56 to 11.46 pounds. I hope you didn't compute your twelve-pound figure on your brand spanking crushing new Sager lappie, because if you did you'll want to be calling tech support.
Just to sum up, in case you're having trouble reading all the little words: the XPS with adapter is at its heaviest over a pound lighter than the Sager POS, even when you don't count the adapter of the latter.
And you forgot the 2.5lb adapter. Again, selective attention?
No, I didn't, you nincompoop. The machine itself is 9 pounds, whereas the overpriced, huge, whoppingly horribly conceived Sager monstrosity is 12.5 . You've "selectively decided" to ignore the fact that the Sager also has a power adapter. This presumably raises it to the fifteen- or twenty-pound mark, Sager engineering being what it is.
See, a bunch of tiny electrons have to go through the power adapter into the machine before it can function. You can probably squeeze about half an hour out of the Sager's battery at a time, but then you'll have to plug back in to get more of the little electrons. Is that easy enough to understand? I can explain further-- let me know.
The smallest power supply available for the XPS is listed at 1.5 pounds, and the largest at 2.4 (not 2.5). At the listed weight (with 12-cell battery) of 9.06 pounds for the machine itself, this gives a weight range of 10.56 to 11.46 pounds. I hope you didn't compute your twelve-pound figure on your brand spanking crushing new Sager lappie, because if you did you'll want to be calling tech support.
Just to sum up, in case you're having trouble reading all the little words: the XPS with adapter is at its heaviest over a pound lighter than the Sager POS, even when you don't count the adapter of the latter.
You're an idiot. Nowhere in my post did i say the Dell was lighter than the Sager... i was just pointing out that Dell also offers a heavy desktop replacement notebook. And no, you don't get a choice of 1.5 pound power adapter or the 2.5 pounds... the calculations are done with the cable or without the cable.
You should read a little more carefully, then think of what you want to say, and then carefully compose your sentences. Do you realize that you keep saying the exact opposite of what a sane person would say? I would never claim that you said the Dell was lighter; it would be stupid of me (since you never came out and said it, although it's true), and it would be stupid of you to say that, especially since you were saying that the Dell was comparable to the Sager in weight (although, as I apparently need to point out again, it is pounds lighter). You said that Dell makes a twelve-pound laptop: they don't, unless you count the adapter. If you count the Sager's adapter, it's much heavier than 12.5 pounds.
You should really think a little bit before continuing this discussion! There's no way you can win, because you've said some very stupid, indefensible things now. All anyone has to do is read your posts. Even if you edit them, many of the stupid parts are quoted.
Again, to sum up: Dell's least popular non-economy model, the 9100/XPS, is squarely aimed at the same market served by Sager. The 9100/XPS sells much better than Sager laptops, even though that model's not exactly the jewel in the Dell crown. It is pounds lighter than the proposed laptop from Sager. The Sager and the 9100 are both pieces of crap, reckoned as laptops. As desktops, they're weak and super-overpriced. This is my opinion, obviously, and it's shared by nearly the entire laptop-buying world.
We can do this just as loooooong as you need, although I'm betting other people are getting tired of it. My sense of fairness won't allow me to let you get away with such stupidity, though. Maybe you should selectively decide to shut the hell up.
The reason that the 9100/XPS sell better than Sagar if you want to say that is that they are everywhere. I can't watch a evening of TV or read a Morning paper with out seeing a Dell ad. And we have seen and heard how GREAT dell's tech support and QA has gotten.
Will G
Will G
i use a Sager lap-crusher and love it to death.
i do not game. well, every once in a while, but that wasn't what i bought it for. i needed the speed to do professional audio recording and mixing. the sager offered top-of-the-line-desktop performance in a little box i could pack up and take anywhere. in fact, it was the fastest laptop i could find from any company. dell, IBM, toshiba... they didn't have anything that came close (good luck finding DC DDR, for instance). and yeah, it's a little heavy, but i can put it in a thin case and pop it in my backpack, or carry it in a targa case without any problems. this includes lugging it up and down the unbelievable hills at UCSC. if you can't carry 10-12 pounds without bitching, you need to lay off the twinkies and do something other than kill kittens for exercise. and if you don't need speed, that's great, buy your compaq and be happy. but there are some people who need a crapload of power in a portable, and for them sager makes great stuff. also, you can get the sager without an operating system if you choose, and it doesn't come with 150 pieces of pre-installed "helpful" Dell software to remind me to "download updates" or crappy Real or Musicmatch bloatware.
i do not game. well, every once in a while, but that wasn't what i bought it for. i needed the speed to do professional audio recording and mixing. the sager offered top-of-the-line-desktop performance in a little box i could pack up and take anywhere. in fact, it was the fastest laptop i could find from any company. dell, IBM, toshiba... they didn't have anything that came close (good luck finding DC DDR, for instance). and yeah, it's a little heavy, but i can put it in a thin case and pop it in my backpack, or carry it in a targa case without any problems. this includes lugging it up and down the unbelievable hills at UCSC. if you can't carry 10-12 pounds without bitching, you need to lay off the twinkies and do something other than kill kittens for exercise. and if you don't need speed, that's great, buy your compaq and be happy. but there are some people who need a crapload of power in a portable, and for them sager makes great stuff. also, you can get the sager without an operating system if you choose, and it doesn't come with 150 pieces of pre-installed "helpful" Dell software to remind me to "download updates" or crappy Real or Musicmatch bloatware.
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