Newly discovered fossil sheds light on transition

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
I'm just curious how the ID/creationists will see this. How do you continually come up with unprovable "reasons" for how god created things? How can you, with more and more evidence, seriously doubt evolution?

Source

Scientists have caught a fossil fish in the act of adapting toward a life on land, a discovery that sheds new light one of the greatest transformations in the history of animals.

Scientists have long known that fish evolved into the first creatures on land with four legs and backbones more than 365 million years ago, but they've had precious little fossil evidence to document how it happened.

The new find of several specimens looks more like a land-dweller than the few other fossil fish known from the transitional period, and researchers speculate that it may have taken brief excursions out of the water.

"It sort of blurs the distinction between fish and land-living animals," said one of its discoverers, paleontologist Neil Shubin of the University of Chicago.

Experts said the discovery, with its unusually well-preserved and complete skeletons, reveals significant new information about how the water-to-land evolution took place.

"It's an important new contribution to (understanding) a very, very important transition in the history of life," said Robert Carroll of McGill University in Montreal.

The new find includes specimens, 4 to 9 feet long, found on Ellesmere Island, which lies north of the Arctic Circle in Canada. It is reported in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature by Shubin, Ted Daeschler of the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia and Farish A. Jenkins Jr. of Harvard.

Some 375 million years ago, the creature looked like a cross between a fish and a crocodile. It swam in shallow, gently meandering streams in what was then a subtropical climate, researchers say. A meat-eater, it lived mostly in water.

Yet, its front fins had bones that correspond to a shoulder, upper arm, elbow, forearm and a primitive version of a wrist, Shubin said. From the shoulder to the wrist area, "it basically looks like a scale-covered arm," he said.

"Here's a creature that has a fin that can do push-ups," he said. "This is clearly an animal that is able to support itself on the ground," probably both in very shallow water and for brief excursions on dry land. On land, it apparently moved like a seal, he said.

It might have pulled itself onto stream banks, perhaps moving from one wet area to another, and even crawled across logs in swamps, said Daeschler.

The researchers have not yet dug up any remains from the hind end of the creature's body, so they don't know exactly what the hind fins and tail might have looked like.

The creature was dubbed Tiktaalik (pronounced "tic-TAH-lick") roseae, and also had the crocodile-shaped head of early amphibians, with eyes on the top rather than the side. Unlike other fish, it could move its head independently of its shoulders like a land animal. The back of its head also had features like those of land-dwellers. It probably had lungs as well as gills, and it had overlapping ribs that could be used to support the body against gravity, Shubin said.

Yet, the creature's jaws and snout were still very fishlike, showing that "evolution proceeds slowly; it proceeds in a mosaic pattern with some elements changing while others stay the same," Daeschler said.

If one considers adaptation as a process of collecting tools to live in a new environment, the new finding offers "a snapshot of the toolkit at this particular point in this evolutionary transition," Daeschler said.

In fact, much of its value comes from this insight into the order in which those tools appeared in fish, said Jennifer Clack of Cambridge University, an expert unconnected with the study.

Knowing that detail about the transition from fish to land-dweller, she said, "might help us to unravel why it happened at all. Why did creatures come out of the water and get legs and walk away?"

It's impossible to tell if Tiktaalik was a direct ancestor of land vertebrates, she said, but if a scientist set out to design a plausible candidate, "you'd probably come up with something like this."

Shubin said the researchers plan to return to the small rocky outcropping that yielded the fossils and recover more material. "We've really only begun to sort of crack that spot," he said.

The site is in Nunavut Territory, and "Tiktaalik" in the creature's name comes from the traditional language used in the area. It refers to a large freshwater fish seen in the shallows.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Interesting stuff, more and more proof piles on that we are creatures of evolution.

The supposedly conservative Drudgereport has this on the very top of the page too, btw...
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: ntdz
Interesting stuff, more and more proof piles on that we are creatures of evolution.

The supposedly conservative Drudgereport has this on the very top of the page too, btw...
But Republicans do not believe in Science. How can you find this interesting??? :confused:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no need to do this type of trolling

Elite status will not protect you from a trolling vacation

Mod
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: ntdz
Interesting stuff, more and more proof piles on that we are creatures of evolution.

The supposedly conservative Drudgereport has this on the very top of the page too, btw...
But Republicans do not believe in Science. How can you find this interesting??? :confused:

I get a warning by the mods, and you get away with stuff like that...Go figure.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: ntdz
Interesting stuff, more and more proof piles on that we are creatures of evolution.

The supposedly conservative Drudgereport has this on the very top of the page too, btw...
But Republicans do not believe in Science. How can you find this interesting??? :confused:

I get a warning by the mods, and you get away with stuff like that...Go figure.

Warning for what? Being Republican??? :confused:

Get away with what?

Schools across the U.S. are putting aside Science and History class in favor of Religious beliefs all brought to you courtesy of the Republican Regime.

Is it interesting or sad or are you Proud of this???

Many Colleges around the world will no longer accept American students because of this.

The U.S. is becoming the biggest laughing stock of the world.

I firmly believe that American Museums and Scientists are in danger.

I don't think this is "interesting", it's tragic and sad. I know you don't agree.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I find it interesting that someone can look at a fossil and come to this conclusion. Obviously it is a leap of Faith in their Evolution Religion.

We have more interesting animals living today. Down on the Gulf around Mississippi we use to see things like walking catfish.

Then there is the Galapogos Lizards that swim under water and eat algea. I guess that proves that Cold-blooded lizards are turning into fish.

This is rediculous.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
I find it interesting that someone can look at a fossil and come to this conclusion. Obviously it is a leap of Faith in their Evolution Religion.

We have more interesting animals living today. Down on the Gulf around Mississippi we use to see things like walking catfish.

Then there is the Galapogos Lizards that swim under water and eat algea. I guess that proves that Cold-blooded lizards are turning into fish.

This is rediculous.
You're just ticked because they haven't found the Jesus Horses yet. ;)
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: ntdz
Interesting stuff, more and more proof piles on that we are creatures of evolution.

The supposedly conservative Drudgereport has this on the very top of the page too, btw...
But Republicans do not believe in Science. How can you find this interesting??? :confused:

I get a warning by the mods, and you get away with stuff like that...Go figure.

Warning for what? Being Republican??? :confused:

Get away with what?

Schools across the U.S. are putting aside Science and History class in favor of Religious beliefs all brought to you courtesy of the Republican Regime.

Is it interesting or sad or are you Proud of this???

Many Colleges around the world will no longer accept American students because of this.

The U.S. is becoming the biggest laughing stock of the world.

I firmly believe that American Museums and Scientists are in danger.

I don't think this is "interesting", it's tragic and sad. I know you don't agree.

It's a bald-faced lie to say Republicans don't believe in Science. It's a complete troll, and you know it's false when you type it. You reply like that to get a rise out of me or whoever else you disagree with. Well too bad, you aren't getting a reaction out of me. You very well know I believe in science just as much, or more, as you. You also know I don't believe in God. So just stop your crap please, grow up and learn to post like a normal person.
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: ntdz
Interesting stuff, more and more proof piles on that we are creatures of evolution.

The supposedly conservative Drudgereport has this on the very top of the page too, btw...
But Republicans do not believe in Science. How can you find this interesting??? :confused:

I get a warning by the mods, and you get away with stuff like that...Go figure.

Warning for what? Being Republican??? :confused:

Get away with what?

Schools across the U.S. are putting aside Science and History class in favor of Religious beliefs all brought to you courtesy of the Republican Regime.

Is it interesting or sad or are you Proud of this???

Many Colleges around the world will no longer accept American students because of this.

The U.S. is becoming the biggest laughing stock of the world.

I firmly believe that American Museums and Scientists are in danger.

I don't think this is "interesting", it's tragic and sad. I know you don't agree.

It's a bald-faced lie to say Republicans don't believe in Science. It's a complete troll, and you know it's false when you type it. You reply like that to get a rise out of me or whoever else you disagree with. Well too bad, you aren't getting a reaction out of me. You very well know I believe in science just as much, or more, as you. You also know I don't believe in God. So just stop your crap please, grow up and learn to post like a normal person.

Meh, just ignore him, just because most religious are conservatives he likes teasing you. Just ignore him, i do.
 

AnandTech Moderator

Staff member
Oct 12, 1999
5,704
2
0
This thread gets back on topic or gets locked.

Politics has nothing to do with the subject.

Dave:
Not all schools are controlled by political views and those that "may" be influenced are done ALL (not 1) sides of the spectrum.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: ntdz
Interesting stuff, more and more proof piles on that we are creatures of evolution.

The supposedly conservative Drudgereport has this on the very top of the page too, btw...

As much of a tool I think Drudge is, I don't think there is anything innate in conservitism that means "just say no to science."
 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,340
3
71
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: ntdz
Interesting stuff, more and more proof piles on that we are creatures of evolution.

The supposedly conservative Drudgereport has this on the very top of the page too, btw...
But Republicans do not believe in Science. How can you find this interesting??? :confused:

I get a warning by the mods, and you get away with stuff like that...Go figure.

Warning for what? Being Republican??? :confused:

Get away with what?

Schools across the U.S. are putting aside Science and History class in favor of Religious beliefs all brought to you courtesy of the Republican Regime.

Is it interesting or sad or are you Proud of this???

Many Colleges around the world will no longer accept American students because of this.

The U.S. is becoming the biggest laughing stock of the world.

I firmly believe that American Museums and Scientists are in danger.

I don't think this is "interesting", it's tragic and sad. I know you don't agree.

I couldnt have said it better. Thanks Dave. :thumbsup:
 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,340
3
71
Originally posted by: piasabird
I find it interesting that someone can look at a fossil and come to this conclusion. Obviously it is a leap of Faith in their Evolution Religion.

We have more interesting animals living today. Down on the Gulf around Mississippi we use to see things like walking catfish.

Then there is the Galapogos Lizards that swim under water and eat algea. I guess that proves that Cold-blooded lizards are turning into fish.

This is rediculous.

Clearly your faith outweighs your logic. Gongrats on that, im sure you will get far with that perspecticve.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Let me save all of the religious conservatives some time.


"This is a left wing liberal propaganda piece intended to undermine religion and destroy the moral fabric of our secular country, the fossil is fake, nothing to see here, go back to your book burning!"
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
You Blasphemers! The earth was created in Six days.
The Bible said it. I believe it. And that's that.

Gotta go. I am late for the witch burning.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Let me save all of the religious conservatives some time.


"This is a left wing liberal propaganda piece intended to undermine religion and destroy the moral fabric of our secular country, the fossil is fake, nothing to see here, go back to your book burning!"

Quit with the secularization of this country, heathen! ;)
 

shenjingbing

Banned
Mar 28, 2006
36
0
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
God obviously put that fossil there to test your faith.

Man... I think you did this just to tease us because you don't know how many people were itching to say the same thing. You first though.
 

M00T

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2000
1,214
1
0
These evolution threads always bring new member/creationists out of the woodwork.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
We must understand that only a tiny part of the fossil record ever becomes actually fossilized. That it takes just the right conditions--or else the corspe rots rather than being preserved for humans being able to view them at some much later times.

Which explains why just finding a few of the missing links evolution postulates must be there is a rare and fortunate event.

So another mystery only partially solved. I do hope this issue does not become a political football for anyone to toss around.
Soon other discoveries will be made---this one will be old hat---with much of the earths history still a jig saw puzzle with many pieces missing.---and some of those pieces will never be found.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,519
595
126
All this really proves is there was a creature long ago thats not here now.

has anyone thought that perhaps it was a species of crocodile that devolved into fish?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
All this really proves is there was a creature long ago thats not here now.

has anyone thought that perhaps it was a species of crocodile that devolved into fish?

Yeah, and up is really down too. ;)
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,519
595
126
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
All this really proves is there was a creature long ago thats not here now.

has anyone thought that perhaps it was a species of crocodile that devolved into fish?

Yeah, and up is really down too. ;)

Don't you remember that episode of ST:TNG where everyone on the ship was devolving?

See it can happen.