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Newell speaks: Evil Sony Empire and it's software monopoly.

V

VIAN

Diamond Member
Personally, I think game developers should form a union or something and just no program for PS3. At least this way, it would stop Sony from making bad hardware decisions.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?article_id=10480&filter=&rp=357

"There are incredibly few programmers who can safely write code in the PlayStation 3 environment. And I totally see why Sony wants people to write code that runs on seven SPEs and a central processing unit, because that code is never going to run well anywhere else," he said.

Newell continued, "They're saying, 'Make your code not run on anything but one of our machines, and we're betting that we'll have market share that's so high that everybody will have to write code for our platform, and we'll just starve the air from the other platforms by absorbing everybody's R&D budget and making their code less portable.' I understand why that makes sense from Sony's perspective, but that doesn't solve any problems for software developers such as ourselves".
 
Gabe really comes off as an ignorant fool in his tangent(he takes shots at the XB360 and Revolution too).

Gabe- Welcome to the world of consoles. If you don't like it- there is the door.

Portability of code between consoles never has been and never will be anything resembling a priority for the market leader- and for that matter it hasn't ever really been a consideration for the lesser players either. Actually- keeping platform exclusitivity for titles is one of the biggest concerns of the platform developers- they actually have been known to offer large cash sums to keep a title from ever gracing another platform(sometimes they pay just to have it delayed for a given amount of time too).

Saying that Sony was trying to make things difficult on developers this time around is fairly comical given how much easier developers who aren't complete noobs to the market have been saying it is working with the PS3 then the PS2.

Newell is a prime example of an extremely lazy PC developer- the polar opposite of Carmack. When Carmack gripes that the new consoles are going to be a lot harder to work with I listen to him- Gabe is whining as he has realized the WoW is the big cash cow on the PC- not HL2- and Steam is losing it. Now he thinks he can waltz into the console market and make a big splash but he is p!ssed off that they didn't do what Gabe Newell wanted them to do. Big surprise. You've never made a game for a console before- why should they care in the least way what you want?
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Gabe really comes off as an ignorant fool in his tangent(he takes shots at the XB360 and Revolution too).

Gabe- Welcome to the world of consoles. If you don't like it- there is the door.

Portability of code between consoles never has been and never will be anything resembling a priority for the market leader- and for that matter it hasn't ever really been a consideration for the lesser players either. Actually- keeping platform exclusitivity for titles is one of the biggest concerns of the platform developers- they actually have been known to offer large cash sums to keep a title from ever gracing another platform(sometimes they pay just to have it delayed for a given amount of time too).

Saying that Sony was trying to make things difficult on developers this time around is fairly comical given how much easier developers who aren't complete noobs to the market have been saying it is working with the PS3 then the PS2.

Newell is a prime example of an extremely lazy PC developer- the polar opposite of Carmack. When Carmack gripes that the new consoles are going to be a lot harder to work with I listen to him- Gabe is whining as he has realized the WoW is the big cash cow on the PC- not HL2- and Steam is losing it. Now he thinks he can waltz into the console market and make a big splash but he is p!ssed off that they didn't do what Gabe Newell wanted them to do. Big surprise. You've never made a game for a console before- why should they care in the least way what you want?
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i agree with most of what you said, but you also must look at cross-platform compatibility for a good console (these days) to survive. Look at the gamecube, most third parties stopped porting to that system and then basically most people didnt care anymore...they couldnt get their GTA or NFS, ect....its pretty important to most consoles now...So even Sony has to consider that...
 
Very very interesting. Thanks for posting that interview. I remember around 10 years ago there was a nice balance between the PC and console industries. Now however there seems to be a lot of tension b/w the two, as the market is shifting towards consoles (in terms of overall sales) and away from the PC game market.

It's a bold move that Valve made, with Newell at the head, by launching Steam as an alternative to delivering their content straight to the consumer, and it has been very lucrative and successful - to a certain extent. Now however, even Valve has signed an agreement with EA to publish their games for retail, and while there is no doubt that other game companies will benefit by the changes Steam has brought about (both directly and indirectly) its most likely certain that the overall focus on consoles will continue.

I think that Sony is very, very smart. They are a HUGE company, and they know where to focus their efforts. Did you know that Sony dropped out of the plasma tv market? They were actually so huge, by their own admission, that they're effort to jump into the plasma tv market were belayed by their own internal bureacracy and inability of their sub-divisions to effectively communicate with one another.

They've been around the console market for a long time however, and if they focus their efforts there, I'm not sure there will be much else for people like Gabe Newell to do except express their discontent.
 
I thought it was bad enough hearing Gabe complaining about coding for nvidia's cards (esp the fx series).

Obviously not 😕
 
Newell is a prime example of an extremely lazy PC developer- the polar opposite of Carmack.
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I can believe that based on how long it took to release HL2 and the content that HL2 provided. It was like an expansion pack.

It's a bold move that Valve made, with Newell at the head, by launching Steam as an alternative to delivering their content straight to the consumer, and it has been very lucrative and successful - to a certain extent.
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I don't know how long I'm gonna stick with steam, but if I can, I won't anymore. Steam is such a rip off. It doesn't offer a decreased price and Gabe gets all the money. I don't want him to get any more than he deserves, and he gets too much as it is.

I guess you have to spend (more) money to make (more) money.
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That's the philosophy.

ahahah solofly that was f'd up....pffft hahahahahaha
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No it wasn't.
 
Originally posted by: James3shin
i concur with bens statement. Gabe has always seemed to be picky about the hardware.
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Unless a card manufacturer sends him a big fat check. Suddenly he's not so picky. 😛
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Gabe really comes off as an ignorant fool in his tangent(he takes shots at the XB360 and Revolution too).

Gabe- Welcome to the world of consoles. If you don't like it- there is the door.

Portability of code between consoles never has been and never will be anything resembling a priority for the market leader- and for that matter it hasn't ever really been a consideration for the lesser players either. Actually- keeping platform exclusitivity for titles is one of the biggest concerns of the platform developers- they actually have been known to offer large cash sums to keep a title from ever gracing another platform(sometimes they pay just to have it delayed for a given amount of time too).

Saying that Sony was trying to make things difficult on developers this time around is fairly comical given how much easier developers who aren't complete noobs to the market have been saying it is working with the PS3 then the PS2.

Newell is a prime example of an extremely lazy PC developer- the polar opposite of Carmack. When Carmack gripes that the new consoles are going to be a lot harder to work with I listen to him- Gabe is whining as he has realized the WoW is the big cash cow on the PC- not HL2- and Steam is losing it. Now he thinks he can waltz into the console market and make a big splash but he is p!ssed off that they didn't do what Gabe Newell wanted them to do. Big surprise. You've never made a game for a console before- why should they care in the least way what you want?
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:thumbsup:

gabe just wants the easy way out.....if there was a "push this button to write HL3 code!" he'd have one on his desk

theres no denying that source is a outstanding game engine. but it doesnt matter how good it is.....he loses all my respect by moaning and crying.

get on with it man! if he wants to make money, he has to make it with what hes got
 
So you guys are saying he'sa wrong about the XBox 360 being bad for not having standardised hardware?
It's true that things like PS2 had optional modems IIRC, but the XBox's ALL had HDD's, which gave a standard platform. Is it a good idea now to take a step back, make the HDD optional and crap?
How many games used the N64 expension thing? If you can't count on things being the same in the console world, then IMO the console is stupid.
Half the advantage in terms of MAKING a game that people say, is that a console HAS a standard base.
People say "well, Halo works well on XBox, because XBox has all the same stuff and they don't have to account for different configurations", now Gabe complains that a HDD will not be a standard thing, people say he's fat and lazy, I mean, WTF?
 
Originally posted by: Lonyo
So you guys are saying he'sa wrong about the XBox 360 being bad for not having standardised hardware?
It's true that things like PS2 had optional modems IIRC, but the XBox's ALL had HDD's, which gave a standard platform. Is it a good idea now to take a step back, make the HDD optional and crap?
How many games used the N64 expension thing? If you can't count on things being the same in the console world, then IMO the console is stupid.
Half the advantage in terms of MAKING a game that people say, is that a console HAS a standard base.
People say "well, Halo works well on XBox, because XBox has all the same stuff and they don't have to account for different configurations", now Gabe complains that a HDD will not be a standard thing, people say he's fat and lazy, I mean, WTF?
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well he is fat ...... u cant deny that
 
People say "well, Halo works well on XBox, because XBox has all the same stuff and they don't have to account for different configurations", now Gabe complains that a HDD will not be a standard thing, people say he's fat and lazy, I mean, WTF?
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It's true. The standard will be without the HDD, so what is he complaining about.
 
Originally posted by: VIAN
People say "well, Halo works well on XBox, because XBox has all the same stuff and they don't have to account for different configurations", now Gabe complains that a HDD will not be a standard thing, people say he's fat and lazy, I mean, WTF?
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It's true. The standard will be without the HDD, so what is he complaining about.
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Why have a HDD then if people are unlikely to use it since they can't depend on it?
And how can you not complain about such a huge step BACKWARDS?
 
Console makers have always been releasing crap that doesn't come standard that people never get to use. The HDD systems will probably serve for extra functionality over the web, but not for games in general.

But I do agree about the standard thing however. the point of a console is that everyone have the same system. However, I did enjoy the N64 expansion pack. Maybe it was the PC guy in me.

I don't think it's a huge step backwards if they have a big chunk of flash memory instead of the HDD. Otherwise, yes it is.
 
Wow...I would think that Anandtech forum-goers would actually have read Anand's article on the crappiness of the next gen consoles. Sure, it's not available from AT anymore, but it's all across the web, nonetheless.

Here's one of the many links to the article.

It isn't just Gabe that has a problem with the next-gen consoles. There are hundreds and hundreds of people being forced to code multithreaded games without a fair transition period. Just watch the suicide rates soar...
 
I'm looking forward to companies that know how to use the PS3 and its cores properly, and take full advantage of it. I'm sure guerilla games will try that in the PS3 version of Killzone, and the Gran turismo team is known for pushing the PS2 to its limits.

Whatever, I don't need Gabe on the PS3. There are plenty of other people willing to make great games for the PS3 AND use the hardware as it should be used 😀
 
Originally posted by: hans030390
I'm looking forward to companies that know how to use the PS3 and its cores properly, and take full advantage of it. I'm sure guerilla games will try that in the PS3 version of Killzone, and the Gran turismo team is known for pushing the PS2 to its limits.

Whatever, I don't need Gabe on the PS3. There are plenty of other people willing to make great games for the PS3 AND use the hardware as it should be used 😀
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Just know that it's going to take a lot longer before the consoles are realistically pushed to their limits. Some select companies that are "in" with Sony may get additional "help" with that, but Sony doing something like this kills off the chances of many indie developers working on PS3.
 
Originally posted by: pyrosity
It isn't just Gabe that has a problem with the next-gen consoles. There are hundreds and hundreds of people being forced to code multithreaded games without a fair transition period. Just watch the suicide rates soar...
Click to expand...

What the hell are u talking about? how long have SMP and multithreading been around? 10 years? 20 ? probably more and since PIII, smp had became more mainstream and lots of people owned them especially programmers and graphics designers. I can asure u, all these years most game developers had been working with one of these multi-processor workstations but none of them ever came out with a worthy multithreading game engine.
 
Lonyo, I thought the lack of a HD was a big step back, too, but I wonder if Xbox Live and the prevalence of broadband will make a HD and even a memcard unnec'y. Eh, I guess not, as anything you download you still have to store somewhere, and that would mean either a HD or taking up precious RAM.

His complaint about the difficulty of programming for the new consoles can be viewed a number of ways. Maybe it's hard to find quality coders who'll be as efficient with the new consoles as they are with PCs. Maybe he's thinking that the learning curve will mean more time before they can release new product for gamers to enjoy. Given the margins he's probably reaping with Steam, though, I'm sure you'll forgive the cynicism that I'm not alone in indulging.
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Saying that Sony was trying to make things difficult on developers this time around is fairly comical given how much easier developers who aren't complete noobs to the market have been saying it is working with the PS3 then the PS2.
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As a matter of interest, do you have links for that ? I really haven't run across much firsthand info from the programming and would be interested to see more.

Apart from that, I wonder if Gabe sees the irony.

Gabe on :

Xbox360 - Multiprocessors suck and are hard to program for and noone will ever use them anywhere else.
PS3 - Multiprocessors suck and are hard to program for and noone will ever use them anywhere else.
Dual Core PC - Multiprocessors suck and hard to program for and noone will ever use them anywhere else.


 
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