Newbie needs help: PC 5.1 surround

[Ulven]

The more I try to find answers to these questions the more confused I get, so I thought I'd try asking this forum If this is posted wrong I apologise. My computer specs are listed at the bottom.

So here's the thing. I would like to get the best sound possible with true 5.1 surround when I play games and watch DVD/BD's. I rarely hear much from the back speakers (which it seems my receiver think is my side speakers) but when I put my ear to them I can hear a little bit of faint sound coming from them. Might be that the configuration is wrong. I used the automatic configuration tool to set it up first time, but that was a painfully complex operation having to use an old tv to be able to see the menu and such.

I heard about bitstreaming and letting the receiver handle all the sound would be best but I have no idea if that is possible with my setup? Right now I have my motherboard connected to a harman/kardon AVR147 via an optical spdif (TOSLINK) cable. I read somewhere that spdif can only support 2 channels when using PCM uncompressed audio (Is this the same as bitstreaming?), so should I use HDMI instead? And if so can I stream sound through the hdmi cable to the receiver and at the same time have a DVI cable from my gfx card to my screen for video?

P.S. Don't know if this matters for my questions, but I'm considering switching from PowerDVD to TMT 5 as my DVD/BD player.

Computer specs:
ASUS P6X58D Premium
Intel Core i7 950
6GB of memory
nVidia GTX580

 

[SithSolo1]

I'm not 100% sure but it looks like your onboard audio doesn't do on-the-fly 5.1 encoding. Without that it won't output 5.1 via Toslink for games, it will for movies.

I don't know if sending the sound through the HDMI cable is possible or if it will fix the issue. I would wait for someone more knowledgeble than myself to answer that one.

I, personally, would just use 3.5mm to RCA cables and run them from the 3.5mm jacks on the mobo to the RCA 6 channel inputs on the back of the receiver. Its the simplest solution however I don't know if it is the best solution. 6 ft 3.5mm to RCA here(You would need 3 cables total): http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...d=1021804&p_id=665&seq=1&format=2#description If you need longer just buy regular RCA cables to extend the range.

 

[s44]

I'm not 100% sure but it looks like your onboard audio doesn't do on-the-fly 5.1 encoding. Without that it won't output 5.1 via Toslink for games, it will for movies.

This is correct. The optimum way to connect now is HDMI, which allows digital all around (uncompressed multichannel PCM) without needing to encode and avoids digital-to-analog-to-digital-to-analog degeneration. Unfortunately, the 147 doesn't handle sound over HDMI. So the OP can either get a new receiver or, as you suggest, use the multichannel analog inputs on the current one.

By the way, in 5.1 the surround speakers are mostly on the side, only slightly behind the listener. Check the Dolby or THX sites for setup diagrams. It's 7.1 that has full rears.

 

[Ulven]

Unfortunately, the 147 doesn't handle sound over HDMI.

It does have HDMI ports, but you mean it only handles video through these? Sounds a bit strange to me :s

 

[s44]

It doesn't touch what's on the HDMI signal at all. That's why you can't get set it up attached to a HDMI TV/monitor -- the receiver can't overlay or even replace the digital signal with its menus. So no video, no audio... just switching between two HDMI inputs and sending the selected one to the output.

A lot of lower-end AVR models used to have this problem, but these days even the lowest ones tend to be able to accept sound over HDMI. What you pay for now is fancier audio and video processing (some of the audio stuff is amazing; video is sort of useless since everything is now HD) and of course power.

 

[Ulven]

Thanks a lot for the input! Any recommendations on a new receiver that can handle hdmi? Not too expensive (at least below $700) and that's a bit "future proof" (with that I mean one I would still like when switching to better speakers, maybe upgrading to 7.1 a few years from now). I kinda like harman/kardon, but it's the only receiver I have any experience with so I'm open to all kinds of suggestions

Noob question incoming:

I, personally, would just use 3.5mm to RCA cables and run them from the 3.5mm jacks on the mobo to the RCA 6 channel inputs

The split end goes into the motherboard, right? Since it has six 3,5mm inputs?

Anyone able to clarify if my computer can do bitstreaming or where I can find out? Don't really know where to look =/

And thanks again for the input so far, appreciate it ^^

 

[SithSolo1]

The split end goes into the motherboard, right? Since it has six 3,5mm inputs?

Anyone able to clarify if my computer can do bitstreaming or where I can find out? Don't really know where to look =/

And thanks again for the input so far, appreciate it ^^

The single end goes in the back of the computer, the split end goes in the back of the receiver. For 5.1 you only use 3 of the ports on the computer: Green outputs both front channels, Black outputs both rear channels, and Orange outputs the Center/sub channels. For 7.1, Grey outputs the side channels. Blue is a Line-In input and Pink is the Microphone Input.

On the back of the receiver connect the red plug of the split end to the red input for that channel and white to white. For the Center/Sub put the Red in the Center and the White in the Sub. Sometimes the Center/Sub channel output is flipped, if it doesn't sound right swap the red and white ends or there may be an option to flip the channels in the audio control panel of the PC(mine had this option).

Before seeing if it sounds correct I would make sure my receiver volume is all the way down and that my PC volume is all the way up. I would play some music and slowly turn the receiver up until you can hear it at a soft level. At that point put in a movie and see if the sub and center are working right. If they are you should be good to go, turn it up to whatever level you normally listen at. If the center sounds muffled or weird try the channel swap. If you hear hissing or static turn your PC volume down until it goes away. If you still hear it at 50% you may not be able to correct it.

 

[Ulven]

For the Center/Sub put the Red in the Center and the White in the Sub.

I don't have a sub, I have active speakers or something. Seller told me it would be practically no difference with speakers this cheap. But I should connect the sub anyway I guess?

 

[s44]

If you can spend $700, you can get a beastly unit. You probably don't need all the power though. How far are you actually sitting?

baseline suggestion: this refurb Onkyo 709

edit- wait, active speakers? What brand and model are they exactly?

 

[Ulven]

If you can spend $700, you can get a beastly unit. You probably don't need all the power though. How far are you actually sitting?

I wasn't really sure about what would be reasonable price for what I was asking, but I'm all for cheaper. Your suggestion looks great, but here in Norway that cost about $1200 so I wouldn't be able to afford that for the next couple of years at least. In retrospect my initial $700 suggestion just seems outright silly when it will be at least double that here in Norway >.<

As to how I'm sitting: center is as in my face it can be and still allow me to see the screen (my keyboard is touching it) left/right front are about 60-70 cm to either side of me and side/back speakers are about 80-90 cm south-east/west of me.

edit- wait, active speakers? What brand and model are they exactly?

Those are my two front speakers, audio pro EVO 60

 

[jtvang125]

Things needed for bitstreaming:

Video card with HDMI out that is bitstreaming capable (looks like the gtx580 can do it)
Receiver that can handle HD audio over HDMI
Playback software that can do bitstreaming (not sure if PDVD or TMT can do it but MPCHC with FFDSHOW can)

Bitstreaming is a bit overrated anyways. PCM sounds just as good. If seeing your receiver light up with Dolby TrueHD or DTS HDMA gives you that fuzzy feeling inside then go for it.

 

[s44]

I wasn't really sure about what would be reasonable price for what I was asking, but I'm all for cheaper. Your suggestion looks great, but here in Norway that cost about $1200 so I wouldn't be able to afford that for the next couple of years at least. In retrospect my initial $700 suggestion just seems outright silly when it will be at least double that here in Norway >.<

As to how I'm sitting: center is as in my face it can be and still allow me to see the screen (my keyboard is touching it) left/right front are about 60-70 cm to either side of me and side/back speakers are about 80-90 cm south-east/west of me.

Those are my two front speakers, audio pro EVO 60

Yeah, you should generally give your budget in your local currency so we know where you are.

At your actual local budget, I would suggest Denon. The 1912 fits about at your top price and would be an excellent receiver whether you keep it in your computer setup or put it with a TV. Though not as fancy as the Onkyo 709, it's still got better sound processing and the like than the Onkyo 609 or anything comparable at its price point.

If you're going to keep the speakers in this computer-surround arrangement, though, you don't need all the 1912 features. The 1612 is significantly cheaper, with the following features taken out: 7.1, network audio play, and conversion of analog video sources to digital. These won't matter in a computer setup, but they could make it less useful if you put it into a regular HT.

I'm not a huge fan of the built-in-powered-subwoofer designs, but I'm glad the speakers have proper speaker-level inputs. If they only had line-level, you'd have to get much more expensive models with full pre-outs...

 

[Ulven]

Bitstreaming is a bit overrated anyways. PCM sounds just as good. If seeing your receiver light up with Dolby TrueHD or DTS HDMA gives you that fuzzy feeling inside then go for it.

Thanks for the clarification! I really just want the best sound possible with my setup, if PCM sounds just as great I'll use that

 

[s44]

It used to be that some receivers handled multichannel PCM over HDMI but not bitstreamed HD codecs, but I don't think any of them have that problem any more. Even the cheap ones let you bitstream.

 

[Ulven]

Yeah, you should generally give your budget in your local currency so we know where you are.

Sorry, I'll keep that in mind next time

Right now I'm thinking I should go for the 1912 since it's very likely I'll be getting a TV before buying a new receiver again.

Thanks a lot for helping me. I really appreciate it!