Newbie Help with setup

[mbesto]

A few things before I start. I am pretty much brand new to the "make your own computer" area. I built this computer last summer and is more or less a budget gaming PC. (cost me about $600 to build) Also, I mostly play World of Warcraft (which isnt a huge graphic hog) so id like to optimize playing that while be able to run stuff in the background for ease of alt+tab'n. Anyway its been a year now and im starting to notice some performance/heat issues. I live in a house with no central air and i have noticed that leaving it on overnight without the AC on in the room leaves the computer extremely slow due to increased heat.

Here is the setup of what I have:
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 Winchester 3000+ 1GHz FSB 1800MHz
Motherboard: MSI K8N Neo4-F nForce 4
Memory: 1024 MB of Corsair PC 3200 DDR
Video Card: Leadtek 6600 GT 128MB GDDR3 PCIx16 Nvidia
Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda 80.0 GB @ 7200 RPMS (SATA)
Monitor: Neovo F-419 (R12) 19" LCD
CDR/CDRW Manufacturer & Model: LITE-ON IDE Combo Drive SOHC-5236K
DVD R/W: NEC IDE DVD Burner ND-3520A
Case/PSU: Antec Solution SLK1650B Black Steel ATX Mini Tower Computer Case 350W Power Supply

So here is an outline of my problems and I'm looking for any advice or suggestions:
Problem:
Computer will not pass through initial BIOS screen when my iPod is connected. It stops at the BIOS check right when it identifies the existence of my processor and right before it identifies the dual channel RAM.
Possible Reason:
Im assuming this might be a PSU problem and the computer wont boot up because it doesnt have enough power supply to power everything. FYI: The PSU is a stock model that came with Antec Case.

Problem:
Computer heats up and slows WAY down after a night in warm room.
Possible Reason:
Im assuming this is a problem with my cooling setup. I currently am using the stock heatsink for my processor (i think that is a no-no) and the stock fans on the case. So maybe new heatsink and add additional fan to the side panel outtake of the case may help this.

Conclusion:
Im pretty much assuming my PSU and heatsink are the main problems right now. If this is true please let me know. Also if this is true could you point me to some good products to buy that are fairly priced. (im not looking for extreme high-end, but still am willing to spend money) Also, I am told that the chip/mobo are decent for overclocking, if anyone thinks I can overclock this and would see some benefit to it id like some information on how to do it.

I am a newbie, but am very computer literate and understand a lot of computer concepts so please feel free to get nerdy on me.

 

[jackschmittusa]

The Ipod connection is not a psu problem most likely. The mb is detecting another storage device and getrting confused. It sometimes happens with usb hd drives attached at boot too.

How have you determined that it is a heat issue? What are the ambient and cpu temps? Is the machine idle during this time? Do any of the fans thorttle down at idle?

 

[mbesto]

ill check temps when i get home (im at work). If i recall correctly my CPU temp is 39 C when it is slow and like 33 C at normal performance. Which is weird, because i was looking at AMD sites and it says the maximum temp for A64's is 65 C, which is way off. I dont know, ill check for sure when im home.

EDIT: also, just in general ive noticed coming into a warm room (id say like 85F) i have performance problems. (i.e. in the morning) also, im not sure about fans or fanspeeds, ill have to check into it

 

[Slugbait]

Boot into the BIOS and remove USB from the boot drive option list, this should allow you to get past a boot stall with the iPod connected.

The stock HSF is rigorously tested and should be good enough for an even warmer proc. Considering it's sitting idle, it's hard to believe it's getting hotter and hotter...are you checking temps along the way? Verify nothing is blocking any intake slots, and that IDE cables, etc, aren't blocking airflow. Also, if you have more air being sucked in by fans than being sucked out, that will cause heat issues...airflow should be even. Last, check all the fans in the box and make sure they're all spinning effortlessly, you may have one or two that is getting sticky (or is dead), and if it's an exhaust fan or PSU fan that's dying, this would be especially necessary to replace.

 

[mbesto]

Alright, heres my latest info on what I did:
Updated my BIOS last night and it helped improve a little bit of my performance. I also checked the CPU temperatures:
Boot Up: 33C
Idle: 35C
Active: 41C

I let it run overnight last night with bittorrent running and woke up to find that the computer shut down. (again assuming heat problems) I am beginning to think that this is an overall computer casing heat problem. I cant really check temps along the way because I really dont wanna stand in a summer-hot room without AC. I am a noob to how fans and what not work.

Is there
1. A way to control all of your fans speeds?
2. A diagram for what overall air flow should look like in a case?

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[Bobthelost]

Yes.

Speedfan is a free application that can be used to control your fan speeds for all fans connected to your motherboard. It's possible to set it up so the fans speed up and slow down depending on the temperatures.

If i were you i'd run prime 95 and then check on the machine after 5 mins, 10 mins, 15 mins, 30 mins and 1 hour. The temperatures may increase more after that point but it's not going to be huge.

Air flow is dependant on how you set it up, but generally you have intake at the bottom front where the hard drives go, then the exhausts at the PSU and rear exhaust fan. You may have other intakes like the side to provide cool air for the CPU, in which case you need to have a fan at the front to force cool air over the hard drives (if they are overheating it can cause crashes, again you can check them using speedfan [SMART section])

I doubt it's a PSU problem, that's a rather low end machine in terms of power draw. You're probably looking at less than 150W at full load from the PSU.

 

[mbesto]

Thanks bob...very helpful. Will try it tonight. Im also going to go out and buy some fans to increase airflow.

 

[Operandi]

I agree with Bobthelost's suggestions.

As far as your temps go, you?re excellent; 41 is ice cold for a CPU, and I generally don't worry until the temp reaches the 60c mark. From what you said so far I would have to think that your problem is defiantly not heat related.

The random shutting down could be the sign of a bad PSU. With the machine powered down I would take a flash light and take a look through the back of the PSU and see if you notice any leaking caps. Bad caps is unfortunately a problem that?s been associated with Antec recently.

Speedfan is a great program for monitoring temps as well as control fans. One feature I find useful is that it logs highs, lows, and means for all readable temps; just do a mouse over on the appropriate temp.

I will also say that MSI has very good fan control built into the BIOS, which you can use to control the speed of your fans if you are interested in that.

 

[bob4432]

you are definately not having a heat issue. i agree with what bob says but also what operandi says about the possiblity of a bad psu. i too live in a hot city and my rig in sig sees ambient room temps of ~83F quite often and never have an issue. your cpu and case temps are fine.

just recently i had a problem with one of my other machines - my home server - xp2000, 512MB ram, 3xhdd, 1x optical drive, 1x120mm fan, 1x92mm fan and 3x 80mm fan. it was running off a 3+yr old antec 300W psu. this machine was on 24/7 and it would periodically reboot every 15days or so. seeing as my temps were good and have excellent airflow in the case, i swapped out for a newer psu and the rebooting went away, in fact now it will go 30-50 days no problem and it only gets rebooted when m$ puts out their updates.

i would go to a store that has a fair return policy or even go on newegg and pick up a enermax, forton(fsp) psu in the 450W category (for future upgradeability). of find a enhance model, they are good too and these that i have listed won't break the bank.

i can't hear very well so i let all of my fans run at full speed, with the exception of my gpu fan, but that is just the way i do things.

also, you need to clean out the machine regardless of your temps, dust is not good to have on everything. have you cleaned out your box lately? i live in a dusty city so i do it every 2-3 wks.

 

[Operandi]

One more thing you might want to check?

I'm fairly certain that board has active cooling on the nForce4 chipset. I would double check to make sure that fan is still working properly. Many of those small fans are not exactly known for their reliability, and dust build up will just makes the situation worse.

 

[mbesto]

@dust - 2 weeks ago I did a complete sweep of dust, even had to clean quite a bit off the heatsink and the mobo fan (northbridge fan i think?)

@psu - So, will the psu itself shutdown if it alone is having heating or leaking issues? The reason i draw the "heat" issue is that i will consistently play WoW for about 6 hours with my AC unit on and have 0 performance issues. I then leave the computer on over night for roughly 8 hours and is either extremely slow or has shutdown. It does not "randomly" shut down, only when there is extreme room heat.

I've read alot of stuff concerning bad PSU's, wattage, etc. and having a case+psu combo that costs like $80 probably isnt that high of quality anyway. Anyone have any suggestions of a decently priced 450W PSU?

Thanks again for all of your help guys, really appreciate it.

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: mbesto
@dust - 2 weeks ago I did a complete sweep of dust, even had to clean quite a bit off the heatsink and the mobo fan (northbridge fan i think?)

@psu - So, will the psu itself shutdown if it alone is having heating or leaking issues? The reason i draw the "heat" issue is that i will consistently play WoW for about 6 hours with my AC unit on and have 0 performance issues. I then leave the computer on over night for roughly 8 hours and is either extremely slow or has shutdown.

Thanks again for all of your help guys, really appreciate it.

If the PSU is working properly (i.e. there isn't something seriously wrong it) heat should not be a factor unless you are running at or near it's max rated power. You are running very low power components; I'd be surprised if you could break 100 watts DC, or AC for that matter. Bottom line if the PSU seems to cooling itself ok (is the fan still working?) then heat really should not be an issue.

Leaking caps will cause general instability, increased heat could make the situation worse.

The northbridge fan is the little heatsink / fan combo that sits on the motherboard, most likely right below the PCI-E graphic card slot.

 

[mbesto]

Alright Ill check leaking caps and the airflow of the PSU. Thanks operandi.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: mbesto
@dust - 2 weeks ago I did a complete sweep of dust, even had to clean quite a bit off the heatsink and the mobo fan (northbridge fan i think?)

@psu - So, will the psu itself shutdown if it alone is having heating or leaking issues? The reason i draw the "heat" issue is that i will consistently play WoW for about 6 hours with my AC unit on and have 0 performance issues. I then leave the computer on over night for roughly 8 hours and is either extremely slow or has shutdown. It does not "randomly" shut down, only when there is extreme room heat.

I've read alot of stuff concerning bad PSU's, wattage, etc. and having a case+psu combo that costs like $80 probably isnt that high of quality anyway. Anyone have any suggestions of a decently priced 450W PSU?

Thanks again for all of your help guys, really appreciate it.

can you see any leaking caps inside the psu? are the fans on it working correctly? i ran a system equivalent to yours on the antec blue 350W psu - p4 @ 2.8, x800xtpe, 1GB ram, 10K scsi, 7.2k pata, a total of 7x80mm fans and a 92mm hsf fan. as stated ealier, my computer room gets over 83F quite often, in fact as it type this my thermometer in the room reads 84.2F, so the temps you are talking about shouldn't be causing these issues unless your psu fans are not working or the psu has bad caps. personally i have had good luck with antec psus, and my current 480W unit i bought because after MIR it came to ~$40.

does your psu have a 24pin connector? for your rig i think you have more than enough power, we just need to make sure the psu is working correctly.

 

[mbesto]

would this be a good replacement if i find the psu is the problem?
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817153023

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: mbesto
would this be a good replacement if i find the psu is the problem?
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817153023

No.

I would suggest this GLN FSP.