New York Times says we should commit more troops.

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
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In my view, the democratic victory at the polls could be interpreted in two ways. The first and most widely held interpretation would be that the American People want out of the war in Iraq. Tired of the brutal scenes shown on television, they just want this thing to end.

A different interpretation would be that the war was mishandled by the Bush Administration, and that during the November elections, people voted to put the war in Iraq back on course. The Bush Administration, specifically Donald Rumsfeld, emphasized using technology with a slimed down ground force to win the war. This strategy has obviously failed.American troops have been outstretched on the ground. With inadequate troops in Iraq, we put are putting our current forces in unnecassary danger. This New York Times opinion article calls for a rebuilding of our ground forces so our men and women can safetly do their job in Iraq.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/19/opinion/19sun1.html

The Army We Need

Published: November 19, 2006

One welcome dividend of Donald Rumsfeld?s departure from the Pentagon is that the United States will now have a chance to rebuild the Army he spent most of his tenure running down.

Mr. Rumsfeld didn?t like the lessons the Army drew from Vietnam ? that politicians should not send American troops to fight a war of choice unless they went in with overwhelming force, a clearly defined purpose and strong domestic backing. He didn?t like the Clintonian notion of using the United States military to secure and rebuild broken states.

And when circumstances in Afghanistan and Iraq called for just the things Mr. Rumsfeld didn?t like, he refused to adapt, letting the Army, and American interests, pay the price for his arrogance.

So one of the first challenges for the next defense secretary and the next Congress is to repair, rebuild and reshape the nation?s ground forces. They need to renew the morale and confidence of America?s serving men and women and restore the appeal of career military service for the brightest young officers.

That will require building a force large enough to end more than three years of unsustainably rapid rotations of units back into battle, misuse of the National Guard, overuse of the Reserves and conscription of veterans back into active service.

Congress also needs to work harder at rebuilding the links between the battlefront and the home front that a healthy democracy needs. That does not require reinstating the draft ? a bad idea for military as well as political reasons. It requires a Congress willing to resume its proper constitutional role in debating and deciding essential questions of war and peace. If Congress continues to shirk that role, expanding the ground forces would invite some future administration to commit American forces recklessly to dubious wars of choice.

But keeping the Army in its present straitjacket would bring bigger and more immediate problems. Even assuming an early exit from Iraq, the Army?s overall authorized strength needs to be increased some 75,000 to 100,000 troops more than Mr. Rumsfeld had in mind for the next few years.

A force totaling 575,000 would permit the creation of two new divisions for peacekeeping and stabilization missions, a doubling of special operations forces and the addition of 10,000 to the military police to train and supplement local police forces. The Marine Corps, currently 175,000, needs to be expanded to at least 180,000 and shifted from long-term occupation duties toward its real vocation as a tactical assault force ready for rapid deployment.

That big an increase cannot be achieved overnight. It will take many months, and many billions of dollars, to recruit, train and equip these men and women. Every 10,000 added will cost roughly $1.5 billion in annual upkeep, plus tens of billions in one-time recruitment and equipment expenses.

But all the needed money can be found by reordering priorities within the defense budget. Thanks to six years of hefty budget increases, there is no shortage of defense dollars. They just need to go where the actual wars are. Contrary to pre-9/11 predictions, the early 21st century did not turn out to be an era of futuristic stealthy combat in the skies and high seas. Instead, American forces have been slogging it out in a succession of unconventional ground wars and nation-building operations.

If the new Pentagon leaders and the new Congress are prepared to take on the military contracting lobbies, they could take as much as $60 billion now going to Air Force fighters, Navy destroyers and Army systems designed for the conventional battlefield and shift it to training and equipping more soldiers for unconventional warfare. America cannot afford to dribble away money on corporate subsidies disguised as military necessities.

Congress also needs to hold the executive branch accountable for the use of American troops abroad. Administration officials must be pressed to explain intelligence claims and offer plausible strategies. Pentagon leaders should be instructed to stop using National Guard units for overseas combat instead of homeland security. And uniformed commanders should be pushed for candid assessments about conditions on the ground and the realistic choices available to policy makers.

Rebuilding the Army and Marine Corps is an overdue necessity. But it is only the first step toward repairing the damage done to America?s military capacities and credibility over the past six years.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
This the largest mistake that this admin has made is not increasing the size of the military. While I am not sure that a larger force would make things any better in iraq, it would without a doubt show we are serious about getting the job done.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
765
0
0
Why does the NYT hate America?

We have enough troops in Iraq to get the job done. The best and proven strategy for Iraq is stay the course.

And most importantly, we need those high-tech stealth fighters, stealth ships, and stealth tanks for the next war, The Long War Part II: China!
 
Aug 1, 2006
1,308
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Bull. Pull out now. They act up over there, send in the bombers, soften up for 6 months, rinse, repeat. End of story.
The Republicans tied their fortunes to Bush who tied his fortunes to Iraq. You can see where it got them. Interpreting the trouncing they got at the polls as "duhhhh yeah, let's send more kids to their deaths..." is retarded.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: charrison
This the largest mistake that this admin has made is not increasing the size of the military. While I am not sure that a larger force would make things any better in iraq, it would without a doubt show we are serious about getting the job done.

Perhaps you did not catch the General that said we don't have anymore troops to commit.

You support a draft for this false war???
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Your title is misleading. It's not the NY Times. It's a neocon writing an editorial.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
HAVE YOU NO SHAME? YOU OUTRIGHT LIED IN YOUR THREAD TITLE.

THE NEW YORK TIMES DID NOT SAY WE SHOULD COMMIT MORE TROOPS.

THEY SAID WE SHOULD EXPAND THE SIZE OF THE MILITARY.

HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF, LYING LIKE THIS?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
THE NEW YORK TIMES DID NOT SAY WE SHOULD COMMIT MORE TROOPS.

Read this part...the author is implying the need for more troops and units whose primary mission is to undertake conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan...more nonconventional units like special ops, marines, and Army divisions equipped and trained for stabilization missions.

A force totaling 575,000 would permit the creation of two new divisions for peacekeeping and stabilization missions, a doubling of special operations forces and the addition of 10,000 to the military police to train and supplement local police forces. The Marine Corps, currently 175,000, needs to be expanded to at least 180,000 and shifted from long-term occupation duties toward its real vocation as a tactical assault force ready for rapid deployment.

 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
THE NEW YORK TIMES DID NOT SAY WE SHOULD COMMIT MORE TROOPS.

Read this part...the author is implying the need for more troops and units whose primary mission is to undertake conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan...more nonconventional units like special ops, marines, and Army divisions equipped and trained for stabilization missions.

A force totaling 575,000 would permit the creation of two new divisions for peacekeeping and stabilization missions, a doubling of special operations forces and the addition of 10,000 to the military police to train and supplement local police forces. The Marine Corps, currently 175,000, needs to be expanded to at least 180,000 and shifted from long-term occupation duties toward its real vocation as a tactical assault force ready for rapid deployment.

ONCE AGAIN THE NEW YORK TIMES DID NOT CALL FOR MORE TROOPS IN IRAQ. YOU'RE QUOTE DOES NOT EVEN MENTION IRAQ.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: her209
We definitely need more trainers in Iraq to train the Iraqi troops.

do you have any idea how to pick the loyal troops.. the ones who will not back shiite death squads and the others who just want a place to call home

Middle Eastern Islam is a religion filled with Fanatics and specifically Iraq.. because of the shiites and the sunnis anger towards each other

We were not supposed to go there and do what we did because everybody knew it would become a civil war and horrible mess like it is.. now what?
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: her209
We definitely need more trainers in Iraq to train the Iraqi troops.
do you have any idea how to pick the loyal troops.. the ones who will not back shiite death squads and the others who just want a place to call home

Middle Eastern Islam is a religion filled with Fanatics and specifically Iraq.. because of the shiites and the sunnis anger towards each other

We were not supposed to go there and do what we did because everybody knew it would become a civil war and horrible mess like it is.. now what?
Nope, I don't claim to know which Iraqi will turn out to be the loyal ones, but anyone suspected of backing death squads should be tried by military tribunal and imprisoned or hung.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
We can not send more troops to Iraq unless we increase the size of the military. Here in lies the problem. It may be true that Clinton reduced the deficeit quite a bit, but that was done by reducing the size of the military. What these people are proposing has a pricetag, that we need to consider carefully.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: her209
We definitely need more trainers in Iraq to train the Iraqi troops.
do you have any idea how to pick the loyal troops.. the ones who will not back shiite death squads and the others who just want a place to call home

Middle Eastern Islam is a religion filled with Fanatics and specifically Iraq.. because of the shiites and the sunnis anger towards each other

We were not supposed to go there and do what we did because everybody knew it would become a civil war and horrible mess like it is.. now what?
Nope, I don't claim to know which Iraqi will turn out to be the loyal ones, but anyone suspected of backing death squads should be tried by military tribunal and imprisoned or hung.

We do not have even half the manpower to do such things

We do not run the country ..

Check this out.. *you can look up more info it if you want

The report relates "the only known case in which U.S. forces intervened to stop detainee abuse." It said scouts from an Oregon Army National Guard unit saw Iraqi guards at an Interior Ministry compound abusing detainees on June 29. A soldier took pictures through his rifle scope of detainees who were blindfolded and bound.

According to an account related in the report by Capt. Jarrell Southal of the National Guard, his soldiers entered the compound and found bound prisoners "writhing in pain" and complaining of lack of water. They gave water to the men, moved them out of the sun and then disarmed the Iraqi police. But when the Oregon soldiers radioed up their chain of command for instructions, they were ordered to "return the prisoners to the Iraqi authorities and leave the detention yard."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33349-2005Jan24.html

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
This the largest mistake that this admin has made is not increasing the size of the military. While I am not sure that a larger force would make things any better in iraq, it would without a doubt show we are serious about getting the job done.

Perhaps you did not catch the General that said we don't have anymore troops to commit.

You support a draft for this false war???

Perhaps you dont know the difference between congress raising the end strength numbers and increased recruiting/retention and a draft.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
We do not have even half the manpower to do such things
No we don't which is why I said send in more trainers.

There are stories where Iraqi troops abandoning checkpoints or unload their entire clips into a crowd or just firing shots into the air for celebratory purposes. Poor training in my opinion.