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New York Mayor Bloomberg wants to HIDE baby formula in hospitals

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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
1
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I understand the evolutionary argument, but just to play devil's advocate: Who is to say that we are at the peak of evolution now? Breast milk may not be the BEST it can be at the time. Remember that evolution is an extremely long and extremely slow process. Just because something is "natural" doesn't necessarily mean that it is better than something synthetic.

I haven't looked at any research on this, so breast milk could very well be much better than formula. I'm just saying that nature isn't always perfect at this exact moment.
Except studies show that babies who are breast fed grow up to have higher IQ.... so breast feeding is the best.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
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I understand the evolutionary argument, but just to play devil's advocate: Who is to say that we are at the peak of evolution now? Breast milk may not be the BEST it can be at the time. Remember that evolution is an extremely long and extremely slow process. Just because something is "natural" doesn't necessarily mean that it is better than something synthetic.
We're definitely not at the peak of darwinian evolution but we are at the peak of lamarckian evolution.


I haven't looked at any research on this, so breast milk could very well be much better than formula. I'm just saying that nature isn't always perfect at this exact moment.
Take the findings with a grain of salt. Doctors have a bad habit of jumping to conclusions and oversimplifying things. They'll look at something like an orange, discover that only the sugar is digested, then declare the rest of it is useless. Years or decades later they reverse that idea and conclude that the other parts of the orange (fiber) are useful as well. Look back at all the stupid things we believed 50 or 100 years ago. There was a time when putting lead in paint was a good idea. Lead in gasoline was a good idea. Designing schools with few windows was a good idea in the 1970s and we now know that blocking out the sun actually screws up the kids more than it helps.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
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In the US life is sacred from conception to birth. After that... it's just one long piss take.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
350
126
Everyone supports the government trying to force behavior, it's just a question of what behaviors.
Everyone? I think you mean only every sane person wants certain behaviors forced on them by government through aggression.
 

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
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I do agree that "forcing" a behavior is wrong. However, I don't disagree with them trying to "push" or reinforce a behavior. Breastfeeding is so much healthier for the child when possible.

That being said, some women have trouble breastfeeding... however I believe that is usually due to medications and most of those could be stopped for the breastfeeding. I know this because my wife is about to give birth and she stopped taking one of those medications specifically so that she could breastfeed.

IMO they should always go towards the breastfeeding, however, being a hospital they should always have the formula on hand for those who still decide not to.

Also, keep in mind these "free formulas" are purely marketing at the beginning. The companies supply this free formula so that it influences the decision on what to do with the health of your child.
I can give you an exact example of why hospitals should have formula.

My wife was in labor for 14 hours.

Heartrate of my son started to drop with every contraction and she was only 7cm.

Ended up in an emergency c-section. They assumed the epidural was enough. They cut into my wife and she about jumped off the table because she could feel it.

To get her through the c-section, they pumped her full of morphine. Within minutes she was covered in red hives. Yep, we didn't know she was allergic.

They pumped her full of antihistamines via IV.

If you know anything about breastfeeding, you should know what happened next. My wife couldn't product shit for milk. My son was jaundice. He ended up on some amount of formula until my wife could produce enough milk. And to even get that to work, she had to get a prescription from australia because the FDA does not approve the drug she needed for increasing milk supply. The FDA pulled it from the market because if used intravenously, it can cause cardiac arrest.

So yeah, I believe mothers should breastfed. But they also shouldn't feel like shit if they can't. As for the comment about evolution pointing to everyone being able to breastfed, that is a bullshit argument. My son would probably not be alive if not for modern medicine. Child birth was the leading cause of dead for women and infants until recent history.
 

JACKHAMMER

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,870
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For obvious evolutionary reasons I suspect that nearly all mothers can breastfeed.
This is factually incorrect, there are plenty of reasons why some women cannot breastfeed or are limited in their milk production. But that's OK, just 'suspect' - that seems what you do most of the time anyway.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
6
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If inability to breastfeed should be nearly nonexistant due to evolution, then so should homosexuality...

Just sayin...
~2% of the population is homosexual.

EDIT: And it should only be nearly nonexistant assuming there is a genetic basis for it.
 
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Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
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To get her through the c-section, they pumped her full of morphine. Within minutes she was covered in red hives. Yep, we didn't know she was allergic.
That seems weird. If I were being cut open I would rather be put to sleep. I can't imagine being awake while I'm being disected like that. Maybe it's a new trend. Stay awake while they do major surgery and let you watch the procedure on CCTV as it's happening.


If you know anything about breastfeeding, you should know what happened next. My wife couldn't product shit for milk. My son was jaundice. He ended up on some amount of formula until my wife could produce enough milk. And to even get that to work, she had to get a prescription from australia because
I'm amazed the two of you are not in jail right now. Even trying that with an approved medication like percocet would get at least a year in jail. Using a foreign doctor for unapproved medication? They might go for the death penalty on that one.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
72,628
23,740
136
That seems weird. If I were being cut open I would rather be put to sleep. I can't imagine being awake while I'm being disected like that. Maybe it's a new trend. Stay awake while they do major surgery and let you watch the procedure on CCTV as it's happening.
Local anesthesia is used in almost all c-sections.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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This is factually incorrect, there are plenty of reasons why some women cannot breastfeed or are limited in their milk production. But that's OK, just 'suspect' - that seems what you do most of the time anyway.
Agreed, there's plenty of folks here who have no idea what they're talking about. They seem to think that childbirth somehow magically turns on the breastmilk faucet. Here's a protip, if you don't even know what colostrum is then you should defer from questions about breastfeeding in the hospital until you've done some research and know what you're talking about.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,529
0
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again - this "program" isn't saying that formula wouldn't be available for mothers who don't want to, or are unable to breast-feed their babies.
 

nanette1985

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2005
4,209
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1. For you evolutionary types - Many women can't successfully feed a child. However many other women can successfully feed more than one child. Wet nursing goes way back.

2. When I had my kids(1980's) hospitals insisted on feeding the babies. They made sure the babies were full of formula before being brought to us mothers. Made it nearly impossible to breastfeed. I have 4 kids. And the formula wasn't free, we were charged for it on the hospital bill. What we got for free was a little tote bag with a sample diaper , a bottle, a tiny can of formula and a little plastic toy.

Sounds like now they're going ga-ga in the opposite direction. Breastfeeding isn't for everyone. What they ought to be doing is encouraging whatever it takes to get the healthiest babies and new mothers, no matter how they decide to feed their children.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
10,924
1,088
126
1. For you evolutionary types - Many women can't successfully feed a child. However many other women can successfully feed more than one child. Wet nursing goes way back.

2. When I had my kids(1980's) hospitals insisted on feeding the babies. They made sure the babies were full of formula before being brought to us mothers. Made it nearly impossible to breastfeed. I have 4 kids. And the formula wasn't free, we were charged for it on the hospital bill. What we got for free was a little tote bag with a sample diaper , a bottle, a tiny can of formula and a little plastic toy.

Sounds like now they're going ga-ga in the opposite direction. Breastfeeding isn't for everyone. What they ought to be doing is encouraging whatever it takes to get the healthiest babies and new mothers, no matter how they decide to feed their children.
I feel hospitals should encourage breat feeding, even insist upon it to the mother that it is the best option for the health of the child. There is absolutely no good reason to force behavior here.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
6
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1. For you evolutionary types - Many women can't successfully feed a child. However many other women can successfully feed more than one child. Wet nursing goes way back.
Incorrect. A small number of women are unable to breastfeed.

http://www.parenting.com/article/the-breastfeeding-police

The fact is, although the vast majority of new mothers are able to breastfeed, about 2 percent of all women can't produce enough milk, regardless of their physical or emotional condition
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
20
81
I'm going to turn Bold on now, so shield your eyes:

What the f*ck is going on in this thread?

Is it that people don't understand what is going on?

Private manufacturers of infant formula are "donating" to the hospital infant formula under an agreement that the hospital will give it to patients free of charge. The manufacturers are not doing this out of the goodness of their heart but in the hopes that patients who have tried their brand of formula will then buy it. It is also being given out in the hopes that mothers will see the convenience and choose formula over breastfeeding.

The hospital is not only doing nothing wrong by not acting to facilitate advertising by formula manufacturers, it acting in the best interests of their patients since breast feeding is better for a baby than formula.

For those mothers who cannot or will not breast feed, the hospital is still supplying the free formula.

This is a health issue, not a nanny state issue.
Congratulations to Bloomberg for not being the formula manufactures bitch.

I <3 you :wub:
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
20
81
2. When I had my kids(1980's) hospitals insisted on feeding the babies. They made sure the babies were full of formula before being brought to us mothers. Made it nearly impossible to breastfeed. I have 4 kids. And the formula wasn't free, we were charged for it on the hospital bill. What we got for free was a little tote bag with a sample diaper , a bottle, a tiny can of formula and a little plastic toy.

This explains the crazy amount of health issues that cropped up in my generation.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
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Getting mad about this measure is like being mad at a school for not putting pop machines in the cafeteria.

This is not banning formula.
It would not make formula unavailable to the women who legitimately need it.
It is not forcing anyone to do something they don't want to do.

It's simply asking hospitals to encourage breastfeeding if possible, and the vast majority of the time it is. Breastfeeding is the healthiest way to feed a baby. Every woman should try to breastfeed unless there is a legitimate medical reason for why she can't. Nearly everyone who is knowledgeable enough about child care to have an opinion on the subject would agree. Medical support for EXCLUSIVE breastfeeding for the first six months of life has only been getting stronger in recent years, as opposed to the "dark ages" of the 80s when the "modern woman" would rely on untested medical technology to replace everything her body was supposed to do.

Quite simply, any outrage over this proposal is outrageous. It sounds like most people up in arms about it are big-business conservatives who can't stand the idea of formula companies being denied the opportunity to get babies hooked on formula from birth.
 
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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
6
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Getting mad about this measure is like being mad at a school for not putting pop machines in the cafeteria.
.
I think you mean it is like claiming that not handing out free Mountain Dew to students (donated by the Pepsi Corporation) is stifling their beverage choices :cool:
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Do you support laws against murder?
You don't need government or the bible to tell you that murder is wrong and that consequences need to be met out.

Now do you support laws against gay marriage or marijuana use because government tells they are wrong?
 
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