New York is going to have Medicaid reform. OUCH!

[First]

Well I guess the people can wait a few weeks then.

The fail is strong with this one.

 

[dmcowen674]

if they didn't want to be on medicaid they should of just worked harder right? Its a choice. Just like aids is a choice (having sex) and chemo - clearly they didnt do gods bidding and got cancer for it or they chose to live near a chemical plant.

That's pretty much the standard Republican montra.

You sick you die unless of course you rich like them.

 

[Wheezer]

I've been critical of the government for doing nothing to reform the system.

Well I found out today that there is a new policy. Before, one could use their medicaid card and if they didn't have it, things were OK as long as we had the number for billing. If the patient lost their card then they could get the numbers for billing.

No more.

The patient is now required to give us their card each and every time. One of the key numbers are now randomized and new cards were to be sent out. Unfortunately the government implemented the changes before the cards were mailed.

No problem, right? The patient can just call his or her social worker and get the number. Well no. As part of the changes no one is authorized to give patient or provider any billing information under any circumstances. If a card is lost then a new sequence number is issued and patient must use that instead.

Unfortunately that means it will be 4 to 6 weeks before the patient can get medications.

On chemo? Nope. Aids? Nope. You go without.

So we asked the Medicaid representative what we can do for them. The answer was literally "We don't know. That's not our problem".


Nice.

So now people have to start being responsible and actually keep their cards somewhere they can find them each time like a purse, wallet or *gasp* a filing cabinet?

OH! the humanity!

god forbid we actually ask people to start stepping up and taking responsibility for themselves.

Here's a novel idea....go to your local libray, Kinkos or Staples and use one of these:

 

[Double Trouble]

I've been critical of the government for doing nothing to reform the system.

Well I found out today that there is a new policy. Before, one could use their medicaid card and if they didn't have it, things were OK as long as we had the number for billing. If the patient lost their card then they could get the numbers for billing.

No more.

The patient is now required to give us their card each and every time. One of the key numbers are now randomized and new cards were to be sent out. Unfortunately the government implemented the changes before the cards were mailed.

No problem, right? The patient can just call his or her social worker and get the number. Well no. As part of the changes no one is authorized to give patient or provider any billing information under any circumstances. If a card is lost then a new sequence number is issued and patient must use that instead.

Unfortunately that means it will be 4 to 6 weeks before the patient can get medications.

On chemo? Nope. Aids? Nope. You go without.

So we asked the Medicaid representative what we can do for them. The answer was literally "We don't know. That's not our problem".


Nice.

Wow... that's amazingly stupid... even considering that not much in the way of government stupidity amazes or even surprises me anymore.

 

[Double Trouble]

So basically, if you are irresponsible and lose your card, the government isn't there to hold your hand? The solution sounds simple. Don't lose your card!

What about if someone robs you and you have no card? What about a fire consuming my house? You should go without medicine because of that? The reality is, documents get lost or stolen, no matter what kind of document it is. When it does happen, there has to be a way to bridge the gap, especially when it pertains to something like medical needs.

 

[Double Trouble]

So now people have to start being responsible and actually keep their cards somewhere they can find them each time like a purse, wallet or *gasp* a filing cabinet?

OH! the humanity!

god forbid we actually ask people to start stepping up and taking responsibility for themselves.

Here's a novel idea....go to your local libray, Kinkos or Staples and use one of these:

You must be a product of school system failure. Go back and read. The changes went into effect *before* the cards were mailed out. In other words, there is/was no card for people to have/lose/copy whatever when the changes went into effect.

Further, even if someone does *gasp* commit the moral sin of losing a document (see my previous post about other ways to "lose" the document), you think it's appropriate to make them go without medicine for 4-6 weeks?

 

[StageLeft]

So now people have to start being responsible and actually keep their cards somewhere they can find them each time like a purse, wallet or *gasp* a filing cabinet?

OH! the humanity!

god forbid we actually ask people to start stepping up and taking responsibility for themselves.

Here's a novel idea....go to your local libray, Kinkos or Staples and use one of these:

Another reading comprehension fail. I will make it easy for you:

Unfortunately the government implemented the changes before the cards were mailed.

Per above, it would be nice to see an article on this.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Any links to this?

And are you talking about the sequence number? I noticed after the new year people's numbers went from sensible ones like 01 to numbers as random as 77.

It's the sequence number. I'm sure there is something somewhere on some website, but I haven't looked. We learned about this because it used to be that the patient could get the sequence number if it changed. The case worker wouldn't give her the number and was not very clear why. So we called the help number and that's when we learned what was going on. I've seen a number as high as 94.

I forgot to mention that a pilot program is in place where the patient will have to swipe their card and sign for it. Eventually that will be everywhere.

That's pretty much the standard Republican montra.

You sick you die unless of course you rich like them.

This is an overwhelmingly Democratic state controlled completely by Democrats with unchallenged authority. It's the same people who many want to run their health care. Unfortunately they want to run mine as well.

So basically, if you are irresponsible and lose your card, the government isn't there to hold your hand? The solution sounds simple. Don't lose your card!

A simple solution would be to encase your card in a giant picture frame. No matter what happens, I don't think you can lose a picture frame.

OK.
So Hacp has a drivers license. He gets pulled over and is issued a ticket for having an invalid one. Naturally he realizes it's his fault because the government completely changed the licenses and didn't let anyone know or send them out. He apologizes to the officer profusely for his sin.

He then goes to his local DMV where he is told that he will have to wait 4 to 6 weeks and if he loses it, he'll have to wait that long for a replacement. He thanks the government for their consideration.

Now Hacp happens to live where there is no public transportation and has to drive to work. Of course he realizes it's his poor choice for not planning ahead. He should have foreseen all this.

Hacp's boss calls and he's told he's fired because he can't get to work. He apologizes for being a bad person and hangs up.

After 6 weeks he's found lying dead because he injured himself and got an infection.

When they buried him they carved this on his tombstone:

"Hacp- He was the consummate Good Responsible Citizen"


Yeah it's sarcasm.

And now the best for last.

From Nobodyknows, who I'm starting to believe is a plant. After all, who could be outraged that I take the occasional moment to post during a 12 hour work day and then reply to people not getting medicine for a month or more with this gem:

OMG, the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!

Who are you really?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Carmen, do you now understand my frustration with politicians and their well meaning (but inexperienced) followers? This was implemented by people who do not understand the needs of the patient, how the provider interacts with them, or pretty much anything but how to write rules.

This is what will be a relatively small program compared to a national system which has control over situations which are impossible for anyone to anticipate. Without proper guidance in advance of legislation all sorts of problems can (and will) happen, and to go against the rules isn't disregarding insurance regulations, it's to commit a criminal act. If I were able to circumvent the system to give an AIDS patient their meds I would have committed what would probably be a felony by defrauding the government.

Think about the Summit What has the real priority been? For the Dems to get something in time for the election and for the Reps to keep them from doing so. Does that seem to be sound foundation on which to build a quality health care system?

As a provider I think not. Health care needs reform, but the politicians and general public seem to not understand what that means. It's more than just insurance. The politicians will tell you proudly that poor people have insurance. They'll not mention that they can't us it. That's probably because they haven't quite realized it yet. They aren't really concerned about the consequences of their actions.

 

[dmcowen674]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
That's pretty much the standard Republican montra.

You sick you die unless of course you rich like them.

This is an overwhelmingly Democratic state controlled completely by Democrats with unchallenged authority. It's the same people who many want to run their health care. Unfortunately they want to run mine as well.

I know New York, I grew up there.

Yes it is for the most controlled by Democrats so what's your point?

Rich Republicans as well as rich Democrats will get to live while all other die.

The difference is at least Democrats try and get the poor man's vote.

Republicans get the religious vote.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The point is that you brought in a complete tangent unrelated to this Dave. So the Reps suck. If they had anything to do with this then it's fair. They didn't.

Think about this. The Dems got the "poor man's vote" and what happened? They screwed them over.

It's all about party and staying in power. EVERYTHING else is secondary. The Reps were glad to use the religious right, giving them some hope that abortion would be abolished. It got nothing more than lip service.

Likewise the Dems will use who they can and that's it. Cut off people from their meds. Give hundreds of billions to corporations and allow huge more huge bonuses. How much did you or I get out of this? Nothing.

Look at what was done with Medicare. They cut money that providers would use to give care, but contracting for drug prices? Heavens no!

We are all being used. Some of us are just happy to let them do it because it gives some what they think they want. Others will support the Dems when they do wrong because they hate the Reps, or vice versa.

Whether a thing is right or wrong doesn't depend on which party does it.

 

[brencat]

It's all about party and staying in power. EVERYTHING else is secondary. The Reps were glad to use the religious right, giving them some hope that abortion would be abolished. It got nothing more than lip service.

Likewise the Dems will use who they can and that's it. Cut off people from their meds. Give hundreds of billions to corporations and allow huge more huge bonuses. How much did you or I get out of this? Nothing.

This. Hayabusa Rider is absolutely correct. This UHC push is more about gaining power and control over our lives than actually about giving more people better quality care. And this whole thread is textbook case about why we the people should NOT grant them this authority.

Opposition to UHC for me has more to do with the fact I just don't trust govt to do the things I know I can do for myself better. If this passes, you will see much much bigger and much worse cases than this all over the country as the bureaucracy runs into reality.

 

[dmcowen674]

The point is that you brought in a complete tangent unrelated to this Dave. So the Reps suck. If they had anything to do with this then it's fair. They didn't.

Think about this. The Dems got the "poor man's vote" and what happened? They screwed them over.

It's all about party and staying in power. EVERYTHING else is secondary. The Reps were glad to use the religious right, giving them some hope that abortion would be abolished. It got nothing more than lip service.

Likewise the Dems will use who they can and that's it. Cut off people from their meds. Give hundreds of billions to corporations and allow huge more huge bonuses. How much did you or I get out of this? Nothing.

Look at what was done with Medicare. They cut money that providers would use to give care, but contracting for drug prices? Heavens no!

We are all being used. Some of us are just happy to let them do it because it gives some what they think they want. Others will support the Dems when they do wrong because they hate the Reps, or vice versa.

Whether a thing is right or wrong doesn't depend on which party does it.

We agree. It's a matter of which one that is screwing us over do you do better personally under.

The rich do better under Republican rule.

The poor do slightly better under Democrat rule therefore naturally hate Republicans.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm party agnostic. I haven't forgotten the reps, and their War on Terror, and how it was used to create a scapegoat in the form of Saddam and what that meant.

Would I blame Obama for that? No, because he wasn't in charge. I wouldn't blame the Dems who made this fantastic pile of crap for it either, however I'm talking about an issue for which they are directly to blame. They are the ruling party, republican stubbornness notwithstanding.

I've got to lay the credit or blame at the feet responsible, and in this case the Dems are responsible. If this were a repub state, I'd feel the same.

I am the one who has to say "I'm sorry, but I cannot help you" and that's a real issue to me. Don't think for a minute anyone laughs when someone walks out the door worse for having come in. We're helpless, and that's something no one likes to be.

 

[StageLeft]

The poor do slightly better under Democrat rule therefore naturally hate Republicans.

Really, how's that working out for you now?

 

[cubeless]

Really, how's that working out for you now?

bububbut there are still republicans in the universe, so that's why us po folk ain't doin' well yet...

 

[Carmen813]

Carmen, do you now understand my frustration with politicians and their well meaning (but inexperienced) followers? This was implemented by people who do not understand the needs of the patient, how the provider interacts with them, or pretty much anything but how to write rules.

This is what will be a relatively small program compared to a national system which has control over situations which are impossible for anyone to anticipate. Without proper guidance in advance of legislation all sorts of problems can (and will) happen, and to go against the rules isn't disregarding insurance regulations, it's to commit a criminal act. If I were able to circumvent the system to give an AIDS patient their meds I would have committed what would probably be a felony by defrauding the government.

Think about the Summit What has the real priority been? For the Dems to get something in time for the election and for the Reps to keep them from doing so. Does that seem to be sound foundation on which to build a quality health care system?

As a provider I think not. Health care needs reform, but the politicians and general public seem to not understand what that means. It's more than just insurance. The politicians will tell you proudly that poor people have insurance. They'll not mention that they can't us it. That's probably because they haven't quite realized it yet. They aren't really concerned about the consequences of their actions.

I understand your frustration. As I've said in other threads, I would support other ideas for expanding coverage that don't include expanding Medicaid. That was part of the voucher idea I had. While it has it's own flaws, it doesn't build upon a shaky system. I feel the Democrat bills are an attempt to meld private market principles (such as the exchanges) with consumer protections (i.e., regulation).

What I see happening in NYS is an example of how not to reform the system. I think the overarching objective is good (and I think you agree), but the implementation is very, very bad. I believe a situation such as this should be used as a learning tool to prevent similar mistakes from happening again, not as a method to totally stop larger reform efforts.

I agree that Democrats want to do something before the election, and Republicans want to stop it. That said, these bills were being crafted for a long time. I do feel as if provider input has been incorporated, or else I wouldn't understand why so many doctors and nursing associations endorse the bills. Really, my major concern is that if reform doesn't happen this year, it won't happen again for at least a decade and possibly longer. I simply cannot wait that long. Health care reform has the same problem with social security and medicare, no one wants to touch them because it's too politically risky.

I give Obama tremendous credit for sticking to his guns on this issue. It's unpopular, politically suicidal, and absolutely necessary. I also think he is genuinely trying to design a better system, hell just today the WH announced it was going to work with Tom Coburn to incorporate some of his ideas into a new bill to be presented next week. Coburn was the one in the meeting talking about the things you do.

I feel that these reforms are a step in the right direction, but that they are far from perfect. I think that further reform will be needed if they do pass. We really do need to stress healthy living and things like community health centers if we want to reign in costs.

As I mentioned to you the other day, I just don't see how reform can be done in any other way. If you think it's best implemented on a smaller scale, maybe you are right. I'm just not sure how long that will take to actually happen...and as I said above...time is of the essence. What approach would you take?

I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit on what you do as a provider. I'm going to be a Mental Health Counselor, and I know a lot of the problems we face is that insurance companies mandate how much treatment we can give someone. It causes serious problems because mental health isn't treated the same as physical health, we can't treat a person until they are mentally "well-off," we just have to treat them with the time the insurance company gives us. This is usually inadequate to fix underlying problems. Does this happen in your area?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I have to make this a short post Carmen, but the jist of my position is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I believe there are many people who do want to provide more people with better coverage. The rub is that they don't know how to go about it. That's what happened in my example. If you don't understand the basics but implement laws and regulations which are not optional, then what happens then?

What I'm saying is that Obama and the others may be saints when it comes to intent, however that does not mean they are competent to write legislation due to their lack of knowledge.

As I've said before you wouldn't want a politician or accountant designing a bridge. They might provide funds, but locking someone into making it one way if they didn't have the basic understanding of how a bridge functions? I'd say that was unwise at best.

Our leaders need to get a grasp of what people spend their entire lives doing before they attack a problem they can hardly define.

 

[Carmen813]

I have to make this a short post Carmen, but the jist of my position is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I believe there are many people who do want to provide more people with better coverage. The rub is that they don't know how to go about it. That's what happened in my example. If you don't understand the basics but implement laws and regulations which are not optional, then what happens then?

What I'm saying is that Obama and the others may be saints when it comes to intent, however that does not mean they are competent to write legislation due to their lack of knowledge.

As I've said before you wouldn't want a politician or accountant designing a bridge. They might provide funds, but locking someone into making it one way if they didn't have the basic understanding of how a bridge functions? I'd say that was unwise at best.

Our leaders need to get a grasp of what people spend their entire lives doing before they attack a problem they can hardly define.

That's fair enough...

 

[spittledip]

I have to make this a short post Carmen, but the jist of my position is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I believe there are many people who do want to provide more people with better coverage. The rub is that they don't know how to go about it. That's what happened in my example. If you don't understand the basics but implement laws and regulations which are not optional, then what happens then?

What I'm saying is that Obama and the others may be saints when it comes to intent, however that does not mean they are competent to write legislation due to their lack of knowledge.

As I've said before you wouldn't want a politician or accountant designing a bridge. They might provide funds, but locking someone into making it one way if they didn't have the basic understanding of how a bridge functions? I'd say that was unwise at best.

Our leaders need to get a grasp of what people spend their entire lives doing before they attack a problem they can hardly define.

Hayabusa, a small request please: STOP MAKING SO MUCH SENSE!


Good intentions will not bring about good healthcare reform. Of course, I really don't believe many of these politicians have good intentions. If they did, they would go about making healthcare reform in the proper manner, and not just try to rush in some useless and foolish plan.