• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

New York Governor admits to cheating on his wife

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,136
37
91
Looks like Spitzer wasn't the only one. Now, if only Spitzer had paid in cash or slept with someone he knew, he wouldn't had to resign:roll:.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new...sex_with_other_wo.html

The thunderous applause was still ringing in his ears when the state's new governor, David Paterson, told the Daily News that he and his wife had extramarital affairs.

In a stunning revelation, both Paterson, 53, and his wife, Michelle, 46, acknowledged in a joint interview they each had intimate relationships with others during a rocky period in their marriage several years ago.

In the course of several interviews in the past few days, Paterson said he maintained a relationship for two or three years with "a woman other than my wife," beginning in 1999.

As part of that relationship, Paterson said, he and the other woman sometimes stayed at an upper West Side hotel ? the Days Inn at Broadway and W. 94th St.

He said members of his Albany legislative staff often used the same hotel when they visit the city.

"This was a marriage that appeared to be going sour at one point," Paterson conceded in his first interview Saturday. "But I went to counseling and we decided we wanted to make it work. Michelle is well aware of what went on."

In a second interview with Paterson and his wife Monday, only hours after he was sworn in to replace scandal-scarred Eliot Spitzer, Michelle Paterson confirmed her husband's account.

"Like most marriages, you go through certain difficult periods," Michelle Paterson said. "What's important is for your kids to see you worked them out."

The First Couple agreed to speak publicly about the difficulties in their marriage in response to a variety of rumors about Paterson's personal life that have been circulating in Albany and among the press corps in recent days.

They spoke in the governor's office even as scores of friends, family members and political supporters were celebrating in the corridors of the Capitol his ascension to the state's highest post.

Given the call-girl scandal that erupted last week and forced Spitzer's stunning resignation, Paterson conceded that top government officials are bound to come under closer scrutiny for their personal actions.

The governor flatly denied what he called a "sporadic rumor in Albany that I had a love child" by another woman. "That's just not true," he said.

"Don't you think he'd take care of a child if he'd had one?" Michelle Paterson said, in obvious disgust over that persistent rumor.

The romantic relationship he did have, Paterson said, lasted until sometime in 2001. He did not identify the former girlfriend.

Asked if he had stayed with anyone else since 2001 at the same West Side hotel, Paterson said, "From time to time I used to take Michelle to that hotel."

While Michelle Paterson did not speak much Monday, she touched on the subjects of marriage and infidelity in an interview last week with my colleague, Heidi Evans.

"I feel life is very fragile," she said. "You never know what could happen. That is why you shouldn't judge people.

When asked if she worried about "other women," given how much time she and her husband spend apart, she replied, "Not really. I have a philosophy in life: You have to let people live their life. I feel my husband loves me and is devoted to the family. And I know he loves me. I am not going to worry about that stuff."

He and his wife went to the West Side Days Inn when they were trying to rekindle the romance in their marriage, he said.

They did so after a marriage counselor he used recommended they introduce "new and exciting things" into their relationship, Paterson said, and so they could be alone and away from their children.

"It's convenient since it's only four subway stops from my Harlem office," Paterson said.

Asked if he had used government or campaign funds to pay for any rendezvous with his former girlfriend, Paterson said he had not.

All this, of course, would normally be considered part of the private life of any government official.

But after the sordid saga of Eliot Spitzer, and the ever-wackier escapades of former New Jersey Gov. Jim McGreevey and his estranged wife, Dina, it seems no political leader can escape the magnifying glass that is destined to be placed over his personal life.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,921
3
0
I'm disappointed he doesn't have more of a backbone, and instead of confronting the media he provided all sorts of details about the hotels and whatnot. Here is maybe the first time I've read about a politician's affair and thought better of him afterwards. This is a married couple who basically went through a separation, with both seeing other people, and eventually decided to work on the marriage and it ended up for the better. I don't see how that reflects poorly on his character.
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,915
0
0
Originally posted by: Farang
I'm disappointed he doesn't have more of a backbone, and instead of confronting the media he provided all sorts of details about the hotels and whatnot. Here is maybe the first time I've read about a politician's affair and thought better of him afterwards. This is a married couple who basically went through a separation, with both seeing other people, and eventually decided to work on the marriage and it ended up for the better. I don't see how that reflects poorly on his character.
It's not the fact that he cheated on his wife. It's that he took part in a prostitute ring. The same type he was going after as Attorney General.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,921
3
0
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Farang
I'm disappointed he doesn't have more of a backbone, and instead of confronting the media he provided all sorts of details about the hotels and whatnot. Here is maybe the first time I've read about a politician's affair and thought better of him afterwards. This is a married couple who basically went through a separation, with both seeing other people, and eventually decided to work on the marriage and it ended up for the better. I don't see how that reflects poorly on his character.
It's not the fact that he cheated on his wife. It's that he took part in a prostitute ring. The same type he was going after as Attorney General.
Read thread before responding ;)
 

Rockinacoustic

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2006
2,460
0
76
Everyone has skeletons in their closet, but it's unfortunate something an personal as this has to have light shed on it with the recent scandal.
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,915
0
0
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Farang
I'm disappointed he doesn't have more of a backbone, and instead of confronting the media he provided all sorts of details about the hotels and whatnot. Here is maybe the first time I've read about a politician's affair and thought better of him afterwards. This is a married couple who basically went through a separation, with both seeing other people, and eventually decided to work on the marriage and it ended up for the better. I don't see how that reflects poorly on his character.
It's not the fact that he cheated on his wife. It's that he took part in a prostitute ring. The same type he was going after as Attorney General.
Read thread before responding ;)
I did. The cheating on his wife is not what reflects poorly on his character. Well, it does, but thats not why people are up in arms over it.

I guess you'll need to point out what you think I don't understand.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,921
3
0
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Farang
I'm disappointed he doesn't have more of a backbone, and instead of confronting the media he provided all sorts of details about the hotels and whatnot. Here is maybe the first time I've read about a politician's affair and thought better of him afterwards. This is a married couple who basically went through a separation, with both seeing other people, and eventually decided to work on the marriage and it ended up for the better. I don't see how that reflects poorly on his character.
It's not the fact that he cheated on his wife. It's that he took part in a prostitute ring. The same type he was going after as Attorney General.
Read thread before responding ;)
I did. The cheating on his wife is not what reflects poorly on his character. Well, it does, but thats not why people are up in arms over it.

I guess you'll need to point out what you think I don't understand.
No.. really. Read. The. Thread. Before you read my response, read at least the first four or so paragraphs of the thread.




Ok, now. . . Get it?





Don't get it? This thread isn't about former Governor Spitzer. It is about Governor Paterson having an affair many years ago, and disclosing it just after his inauguration. He was never attorney general, and did not take part in a prostitution ring.

I see how you messed up the first time, just going off the thread title.. but come on man!
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,915
0
0
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Farang
I'm disappointed he doesn't have more of a backbone, and instead of confronting the media he provided all sorts of details about the hotels and whatnot. Here is maybe the first time I've read about a politician's affair and thought better of him afterwards. This is a married couple who basically went through a separation, with both seeing other people, and eventually decided to work on the marriage and it ended up for the better. I don't see how that reflects poorly on his character.
It's not the fact that he cheated on his wife. It's that he took part in a prostitute ring. The same type he was going after as Attorney General.
Read thread before responding ;)
I did. The cheating on his wife is not what reflects poorly on his character. Well, it does, but thats not why people are up in arms over it.

I guess you'll need to point out what you think I don't understand.
No.. really. Read. The. Thread. Before you read my response, read at least the first four or so paragraphs of the thread.




Ok, now. . . Get it?





Don't get it? This thread isn't about former Governor Spitzer. It is about Governor Paterson having an affair many years ago, and disclosing it just after his inauguration. He was never attorney general, and did not take part in a prostitution ring.

I see how you messed up the first time, just going off the thread title.. but come on man!
Ahh! Spitzer, Paterson... they both sound the same. The first comments said Spitzer so it stuck in my head. But I did read it all...

Carry on, I have no legitimate comment.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,387
141
116
Spitzer is as guilty as someone who drank a beer during Prohibition.

This entire scandal was just a good way to keep the public occupied ("sex sells", didn't you hear?) while the Fed and Wall Street pulled a huge con on the American people.

I have a huge problem with how prostitution is illegal in most states, even though it's legal in Nevada, and legal in many other countries worldwide. It's a victim-less crime.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,195
3,242
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Spitzer is as guilty as someone who drank a beer during Prohibition.

This entire scandal was just a good way to keep the public occupied ("sex sells", didn't you hear?) while the Fed and Wall Street pulled a huge con on the American people.

I have a huge problem with how prostitution is illegal in most states, even though it's legal in Nevada, and legal in many other countries worldwide. It's a victim-less crime.
Imagine the scandal if suddenly JP Morgan went tits up! :Q:Q
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a victim-less crime.
Yeah, tell that to spitzers wife and kids. :roll: You F'n morons who keep trying to sell this "victimless" bullshit disgust me. : Puke :

And yes, I know this thread is about the other guy but I can't stand to see the BS.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Spitzer is as guilty as someone who drank a beer during Prohibition.
sorry, it's as bad as eliot ness arresting somebody for illegal beer and then drinking it himself. Not only is it illegal but he was involved in prosecuting people for it. Therefore his fall from grace is completely warranted.

 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a victim-less crime.
Yeah, tell that to spitzers wife and kids. :roll: You F'n morons who keep trying to sell this "victimless" bullshit disgust me. : Puke :

And yes, I know this thread is about the other guy but I can't stand to see the BS.
Purely playing Devil's advocate here.....

Would they (wife & kids) have been "victims" if there were no laws against it and he was still able to keep his career and good name in tact?

If prostitution were legal and the US didn't have the sexual hangups that it does, then this would be no big deal. I think that a lot of partners of very successful men are either aware of or almost willing to overlook their husband/partner having an affair because they like the lifestyle that they are afforded.

It would appear that the media and the puritanical sexual inferiority complex mindset of this nation made them victims as much as Spitzer himself did.

Disclaimer: I love you honey if you read this and I am only being my usual argumentative self. I would never even think of putting you in that position. :heart:
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a victim-less crime.
Yeah, tell that to spitzers wife and kids. :roll: You F'n morons who keep trying to sell this "victimless" bullshit disgust me. : Puke :

And yes, I know this thread is about the other guy but I can't stand to see the BS.
Purely playing Devil's advocate here.....

Would they (wife & kids) have been "victims" if there were no laws against it and he was still able to keep his career and good name in tact?

If prostitution were legal and the US didn't have the sexual hangups that it does, then this would be no big deal. I think that a lot of partners of very successful men are either aware of or almost willing to overlook their husband/partner having an affair because they like the lifestyle that they are afforded.

It would appear that the media and the puritanical sexual inferiority complex mindset of this nation made them victims as much as Spitzer himself did.

Disclaimer: I love you honey if you read this and I am only being my usual argumentative self. I would never even think of putting you in that position. :heart:
Your premise comes down this. If any act is not a criminal one, and it is accepted socially, then is no one a victim. It would could be seen as going to grab a beer from the fridge.

Note this applies to any act. The reason that gassing the Jews is a horror is because to us it's that way. If it wasn't illegal and it was excepted worldwide then wrongisright.

If one is free to say that morals are a fabrication, then it's logical to not heed them except for fear of punishment and condemnation. If they are removed then anything is permissible because right and wrong are words on a paper.

That is NOT how it is though. In the real world right now real people were hurt. In the real world, Spitzer violated everyone's trust. In the real world Spitzer broke a law he crushed other people for violating. There is justice. You have just seen it in action.



Now regarding the Patersons- Good for them! They had trouble, serious trouble, and overcame it and are stronger than they were.

People too often see marriage as something to be cast aside when there is trouble. I strongly disagree. Instead of giving up on each other, and accepting defeat they found the strength to make it work. Love isn't just an emotion, it's a choice. They understand that and overcame.

It's also very wise of them to come forward as they did and get it out of the way. A secret exposed has no real power over them.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a victim-less crime.
Yeah, tell that to spitzers wife and kids. :roll: You F'n morons who keep trying to sell this "victimless" bullshit disgust me. : Puke :

And yes, I know this thread is about the other guy but I can't stand to see the BS.
Purely playing Devil's advocate here.....

Would they (wife & kids) have been "victims" if there were no laws against it and he was still able to keep his career and good name in tact?

If prostitution were legal and the US didn't have the sexual hangups that it does, then this would be no big deal. I think that a lot of partners of very successful men are either aware of or almost willing to overlook their husband/partner having an affair because they like the lifestyle that they are afforded.

It would appear that the media and the puritanical sexual inferiority complex mindset of this nation made them victims as much as Spitzer himself did.

Disclaimer: I love you honey if you read this and I am only being my usual argumentative self. I would never even think of putting you in that position. :heart:
Your premise comes down this. If any act is not a criminal one, and it is accepted socially, then is no one a victim. It would could be seen as going to grab a beer from the fridge.

Note this applies to any act. The reason that gassing the Jews is a horror is because to us it's that way. If it wasn't illegal and it was excepted worldwide then wrongisright.

If one is free to say that morals are a fabrication, then it's logical to not heed them except for fear of punishment and condemnation. If they are removed then anything is permissible because right and wrong are words on a paper.

That is NOT how it is though. In the real world right now real people were hurt. In the real world, Spitzer violated everyone's trust. In the real world Spitzer broke a law he crushed other people for violating. There is justice. You have just seen it in action.



Now regarding the Patersons- Good for them! They had trouble, serious trouble, and overcame it and are stronger than they were.

People too often see marriage as something to be cast aside when there is trouble. I strongly disagree. Instead of giving up on each other, and accepting defeat they found the strength to make it work. Love isn't just an emotion, it's a choice. They understand that and overcame.

It's also very wise of them to come forward as they did and get it out of the way. A secret exposed has no real power over them.
:thumbsup:
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a victim-less crime.
Yeah, tell that to spitzers wife and kids. :roll: You F'n morons who keep trying to sell this "victimless" bullshit disgust me. : Puke :

And yes, I know this thread is about the other guy but I can't stand to see the BS.
Purely playing Devil's advocate here.....

Would they (wife & kids) have been "victims" if there were no laws against it and he was still able to keep his career and good name in tact?

If prostitution were legal and the US didn't have the sexual hangups that it does, then this would be no big deal. I think that a lot of partners of very successful men are either aware of or almost willing to overlook their husband/partner having an affair because they like the lifestyle that they are afforded.

It would appear that the media and the puritanical sexual inferiority complex mindset of this nation made them victims as much as Spitzer himself did.

Disclaimer: I love you honey if you read this and I am only being my usual argumentative self. I would never even think of putting you in that position. :heart:
Your premise comes down this. If any act is not a criminal one, and it is accepted socially, then is no one a victim. It would could be seen as going to grab a beer from the fridge.

Note this applies to any act. The reason that gassing the Jews is a horror is because to us it's that way. If it wasn't illegal and it was excepted worldwide then wrongisright.

If one is free to say that morals are a fabrication, then it's logical to not heed them except for fear of punishment and condemnation. If they are removed then anything is permissible because right and wrong are words on a paper.

That is NOT how it is though. In the real world right now real people were hurt. In the real world, Spitzer violated everyone's trust. In the real world Spitzer broke a law he crushed other people for violating. There is justice. You have just seen it in action.
Very nice reply. You are getting at the heart of the issue.

I would say that you took it to the extreme however. The fact that you bring up the holocaust is evident of that. Prostitution != murder.

Morality is just a fabrication of acceptable standards of conduct. The Bible and Koran are the most revered books of morality known to man. Both are fundamentally based on fear of punishment and condemnation. "Do this or you will burn in hell".

Spitzer was rightfully exposed for his hypocrisy and his activities and deserved the fate that he is now experiencing. His family are victims in this scenario. But I would argue that they are the victims of archaic views on sex as much as they are victims of his inability to live up to his commitment to them.

the fact that the media KNOWS that "sex sells" and they broadcast every detail of every sexual tryst that any public persona is found to be caught up in is evidence that we are all hypocrites also. We all sit here judging Spitzer, McGreevey, Craig, etc., all the while tuning in, buying papers/magazines, visiting porn sites or whatever else.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,136
37
91
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a victim-less crime.
Yeah, tell that to spitzers wife and kids. :roll: You F'n morons who keep trying to sell this "victimless" bullshit disgust me. : Puke :

And yes, I know this thread is about the other guy but I can't stand to see the BS.
Purely playing Devil's advocate here.....

Would they (wife & kids) have been "victims" if there were no laws against it and he was still able to keep his career and good name in tact?

If prostitution were legal and the US didn't have the sexual hangups that it does, then this would be no big deal. I think that a lot of partners of very successful men are either aware of or almost willing to overlook their husband/partner having an affair because they like the lifestyle that they are afforded.

It would appear that the media and the puritanical sexual inferiority complex mindset of this nation made them victims as much as Spitzer himself did.

Disclaimer: I love you honey if you read this and I am only being my usual argumentative self. I would never even think of putting you in that position. :heart:
Your premise comes down this. If any act is not a criminal one, and it is accepted socially, then is no one a victim. It would could be seen as going to grab a beer from the fridge.

Note this applies to any act. The reason that gassing the Jews is a horror is because to us it's that way. If it wasn't illegal and it was excepted worldwide then wrongisright.

If one is free to say that morals are a fabrication, then it's logical to not heed them except for fear of punishment and condemnation. If they are removed then anything is permissible because right and wrong are words on a paper.

That is NOT how it is though. In the real world right now real people were hurt. In the real world, Spitzer violated everyone's trust. In the real world Spitzer broke a law he crushed other people for violating. There is justice. You have just seen it in action.



Now regarding the Patersons- Good for them! They had trouble, serious trouble, and overcame it and are stronger than they were.

People too often see marriage as something to be cast aside when there is trouble. I strongly disagree. Instead of giving up on each other, and accepting defeat they found the strength to make it work. Love isn't just an emotion, it's a choice. They understand that and overcame.

It's also very wise of them to come forward as they did and get it out of the way. A secret exposed has no real power over them.
:thumbsup:
lol. Tell that to the wives in Nevada whose husbands frequent these whore-houses. Here's a hint: it makes no difference whether it's legal or not, they still hurt.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,435
79
91
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Spitzer is as guilty as someone who drank a beer during Prohibition.

This entire scandal was just a good way to keep the public occupied ("sex sells", didn't you hear?) while the Fed and Wall Street pulled a huge con on the American people.

I have a huge problem with how prostitution is illegal in most states, even though it's legal in Nevada, and legal in many other countries worldwide. It's a victim-less crime.
Apparently I was right in my thinking all along, you are an idiot. Try looking up and watching some documentaries on human trafficking. Then tell me about it being a victim-less crime.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
Originally posted by: Dari
lol. Tell that to the wives in Nevada whose husbands frequent these whore-houses. Here's a hint: it makes no difference whether it's legal or not, they still hurt.
Yes, because most of us don't morally accept it. I presume it's legal for me to go and find a couple of 18 year olds and have a time with them, but most people would look down on it and I know that before hand, so to do it says something about me.

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a victim-less crime.
Yeah, tell that to spitzers wife and kids. :roll: You F'n morons who keep trying to sell this "victimless" bullshit disgust me. : Puke :

And yes, I know this thread is about the other guy but I can't stand to see the BS.
:roll:
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,387
141
116
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a victim-less crime.
Yeah, tell that to spitzers wife and kids. :roll: You F'n morons who keep trying to sell this "victimless" bullshit disgust me. : Puke :

And yes, I know this thread is about the other guy but I can't stand to see the BS.
I didn't expect you to so easily confuse "prostitution" with "infidelity", but it seems you couldn't help yourself. Prostitution doesn't imply infidelity, and infidelity doesn't imply prostitution.

Your sweeping generalizations about an activity are exactly why alcohol was once prohibited. Drinking alcohol produces scores of "victims" too (often dead ones in car wrecks), but we don't ban alcohol today because we know how to separate victim-less activities (drinking alcohol) from activities that produce victims (driving while impaired by alcohol).

Spitzer's wife and kids are "victims" because Elliot was married and slept with another woman. She could've been a random girl at a bar, the maid, a secretary, or a prostitute. Infidelity isn't a crime.

Prostitution is a crime. But who would be the "victim" if the John was a single Wall Street banker?

: puke; :barf; :hurl; : omguoffendedme; Feel better now?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
Prostitution is a crime. But who would be the "victim" if the John was a single Wall Street banker?
That's a very good question to ask Elliot, since he crushed Wall Street bankers for hiring prostitutes.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a victim-less crime.
Yeah, tell that to spitzers wife and kids. :roll: You F'n morons who keep trying to sell this "victimless" bullshit disgust me. : Puke :

And yes, I know this thread is about the other guy but I can't stand to see the BS.
I didn't expect you to so easily confuse "prostitution" with "infidelity", but it seems you couldn't help yourself. Prostitution doesn't imply infidelity, and infidelity doesn't imply prostitution.

Your sweeping generalizations about an activity are exactly why alcohol was once prohibited. Drinking alcohol produces scores of "victims" too (often dead ones in car wrecks), but we don't ban alcohol today because we know how to separate victim-less activities (drinking alcohol) from activities that produce victims (driving while impaired by alcohol).

Spitzer's wife and kids are "victims" because Elliot was married and slept with another woman. She could've been a random girl at a bar, the maid, a secretary, or a prostitute. Infidelity isn't a crime.

Prostitution is a crime. But who would be the "victim" if the John was a single Wall Street banker?

: puke; :barf; :hurl; : omguoffendedme; Feel better now?
Very well put. And here I thought "conservatives" were supposed to be able to separate these kinds of things. They quickly trot out "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

How about "Prostitutes don't wreck marriages, marriages wreck marriages."

*Waits for Moral Outrage Brigade*
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY