New York bans weight discrimination

Sunburn74

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Personally I'm as liberal as it comes but i totally disagree with this. I'm for non discrimination of anything a person is when they are born. But If anything I wish society would discriminate more against overweight and obese people, just like society discriminates against smokers and alcoholics. Yes I know obesity has some genetic and social factors behind it, but that's no different than alcoholism, tobacco use and drug use. The reality is largely the rapid rise in obesity is largely environmental. Just my two cents. Call me cruel. I just don't think obesity is on the same level as gender, race, sexual orientation in terms of things that should be protected.
 

nakedfrog

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Apr 3, 2001
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During public hearings, supporters cited difficulty navigating seating at restaurants and theatres, getting turned away by landlords, and butting up against weight limits on the city's bike sharing programme.
The landlord one sounds like it could maybe be discrimination, but the others seem more like accessibility issues at best. Then again, I recently went to a concert and the row of seats in front of me was so close my knees pressed into it, was I being discriminated against for having long femurs?
They mention a difference in pay, especially for women, that seems like it'd be tough to prove.
I remember when Kevin Smith (the movie guy) was too fat for his airplane seat, he took that as a signal that he should lose weight. I worked with a guy who had a similar moment on a roller coaster, when he couldn't ride with his kids because he was too big.
I'm a former fatty myself, I topped out with a BMI around 37. Granted, I was in the Midwest, but I never experienced anything I would have considered weight discrimination. I was still living there when I lost most of that weight (down to BMI 22.5 at that point) , and other than people asking me how I did it or saying I looked like I'd lost weight/looked good, I didn't perceive myself as being treated differently/better than when I was larger. Honestly might have been more the other way: "Is that all you're gonna eat?", "Oh, too good for break room donuts, huh?", "Hey, live a little, you can have another piece." I was probably being fatphobic by limiting my caloric intake right in front of them 😑
 
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Meghan54

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Oct 18, 2009
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Personally I'm as liberal as it comes but i totally disagree with this. I'm for non discrimination of anything a person is when they are born. But If anything I wish society would discriminate more against overweight and obese people, just like society discriminates against smokers and alcoholics. Yes I know obesity has some genetic and social factors behind it, but that's no different than alcoholism, tobacco use and drug use. The reality is largely the rapid rise in obesity is largely environmental. Just my two cents. Call me cruel. I just don't think obesity is on the same level as gender, race, sexual orientation in terms of things that should be protected.
Really…Cushing’s Syndrome the same as alcoholism? How about polycystic ovary syndrome, Type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance, genetic syndromes such as Prader-Willi syndrome and medications such as glucocorticoids? Every single listed item causes weight gain which are indistinguishable from overeating.

So how do you propose to discriminate against those “fatties” (overwaters) only, and not those with true medical problems causing the same look (obesity)? Require “true fatties” to wear yellow hotdog pins?
 

NWRMidnight

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Jun 18, 2001
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Personally I'm as liberal as it comes but i totally disagree with this. I'm for non discrimination of anything a person is when they are born. But If anything I wish society would discriminate more against overweight and obese people, just like society discriminates against smokers and alcoholics. Yes I know obesity has some genetic and social factors behind it, but that's no different than alcoholism, tobacco use and drug use. The reality is largely the rapid rise in obesity is largely environmental. Just my two cents. Call me cruel. I just don't think obesity is on the same level as gender, race, sexual orientation in terms of things that should be protected.
So, you want to discriminate against 75% of the population? First, you really should go read up on what is considered overweight and obese, I suspect it will surprise you. For me, if I don't look like skin and bones, I am considered over weight per the BMI. I haven't been there since I was in high school. Even when my diet consisted of healthy eating, with the majority salads, the best I could ever get down to was still considered 35 pounds over weight (BMI considers me Obese at 40 pounds over weight)

Here is the problem, as my cardiologist said when we talked about my diet.. his words exactly "we really don't know what food does to our bodies, because every person reacts differently". The only thing that is know, is that sugar and carbs are bad for us.. beyond that, it's all up to the individuals metabolism and how their body reacts with different foods.

The real problem isn't the majorities eating habits, it's the actual food we have to eat. To be able to feed the population, food is mass produced using unhealthy ingredients because there isn't enough affordable health ingrediency to support the population. Even those trying to eat healthy, still end up consuming some unhealthy ingredients. Until we figure out how we can mass produce affordable healthy food, using all healthy ingredients, that can support the population and future growth, we will always have a weight problem.
 
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WelshBloke

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How far does accommodation have to go? Does every barstool have to be safe for people who weigh 250kgs?
Does every taxi have to be able to carry two people weighing 400kgs each?
 

nakedfrog

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Apr 3, 2001
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The real problem isn't the majorities eating habits, it's the actual food we have to eat. To be able to feed the population, food is mass produced using unhealthy ingredients because there isn't enough affordable health ingrediency to support the population. Until we figure out how we can mass produce affordable healthy food, using all healthy ingredients, that can support the population and future growth, we will always have a weight problem.
I think it's more complicated than that, and it CAN be both eating habits, and the actual food. Big Food, if I may, has put a lot of money into how best to get people to eat more so they'll buy more, so they'll eat more, and buy more. And naturally lowering costs increases profits.
 
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Pohemi

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How far does accommodation have to go? Does every barstool have to be safe for people who weigh 250kgs?
Does every taxi have to be able to carry two people weighing 400kgs each?
Err...none of the very FEW people on the planet who might weigh 1K lbs are going to be moving around much or walking, much less climbing into a taxi, lol. I know the exaggeration is for effect but c'mon.
 

Sunburn74

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Really…Cushing’s Syndrome the same as alcoholism? How about polycystic ovary syndrome, Type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance, genetic syndromes such as Prader-Willi syndrome and medications such as glucocorticoids? Every single listed item causes weight gain which are indistinguishable from overeating.

So how do you propose to discriminate against those “fatties” (overwaters) only, and not those with true medical problems causing the same look (obesity)? Require “true fatties” to wear yellow hotdog pins?
Diabetes doesn't' cause obesity. It's the other way around. Same for PCOS. Obesity causes PCOS. Not the other way around. There are medications that promote obesity like glucocorticoids. However to be quite fair most people who are obese were obese before they started the medications, and the weight gain related to them is just as much a matter of impulse control as weight gain without them (glucocorticoids make people crave salt, and this leads to them overeating salty fatty foods. Same for many anti-depressants, psychiatric meds, etc etc). Prader willi is a 1 in amillion disease.

Look I'm not for discrimination. I'm not a hateful person. I'm just stating that in general obesity disorder on the whole is most similar to alcoholism or tobacco use or even illicit drug use. Its largely environmental, a disorder of impulse control with strong environmental variables promoting it, and largely modifiable by changing the environment. You argue about prader willi but there are people who are genetically predisposed to alcoholism. I remember someone telling me about how he accidently got into his fathers liquor cabinet at age 5 and from that time knew he was hooked. At 5 years old! Nonetheless we shouldn't grant alcoholism a protected status in society.

Rather than trying to grant obesity disorders protected status, why not tax unhealthy foods or something? Or give tax rebates to people who lose weight successfully or things like that?

So, you want to discriminate against 75% of the population? First, you really should go read up on what is considered overweight and obese, I suspect it will surprise you. For me, if I don't look like skin and bones, I am considered over weight per the BMI. I haven't been there since I was in high school. Even when my diet consisted of healthy eating, with the majority salads, the best I could ever get down to was still considered 35 pounds over weight (BMI considers me Obese at 40 pounds over weight)

Here is the problem, as my cardiologist said when we talked about my diet.. his words exactly "we really don't know what food does to our bodies, because every person reacts differently". The only thing that is know, is that sugar and carbs are bad for us.. beyond that, it's all up to the individuals metabolism and how their body reacts with different foods.

The real problem isn't the majorities eating habits, it's the actual food we have to eat. To be able to feed the population, food is mass produced using unhealthy ingredients because there isn't enough affordable health ingrediency to support the population. Even those trying to eat healthy, still end up consuming some unhealthy ingredients. Until we figure out how we can mass produce affordable healthy food, using all healthy ingredients, that can support the population and future growth, we will always have a weight problem.
Its not 75% of the population. Its closer to 35-40% of the population in the US. In other places its much lower because their societies promote healthy lifestyles.

BMI is a measure of obesity but its not perfect (many bodybuilders who have 6% body fat or NFL players would have high BMIs). There are other measures but simple and complicated. Nonetheless I'm not here to argue with you as to what is best quantification of fat. You know it when you see it. We're simply talking about the general population who everyone agrees is fat.

I would disagree with your cardiologists statement about not knowing what food does to our bodies. I think the scientific community has pretty good idea. There are minor variations in baseline metabolism (skinny people actually twitch more) but at the end of the day a persons total metabolic expenditure for the day is mostly under their control.

I agree with you that we have a lot of unhealthy food in society. The response isn't moving obesity to a protected status. It'd be like saying "hey we have a lot of drugs and alcoholism in society so lets move them to protected status". The response should be trying to clean up the typical american diet and improve american lifestyles from an activity standpoint. I lived in texas where most people drove to work 10-20 miles each way in the fattest city in america. Now I live in a city where most people bike to work and overall people are pretty slender over here. Its a completely different lifestyle. The reality is the government has more control over the issue than they are currently exercising.
 

WelshBloke

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Jan 12, 2005
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Err...none of the very FEW people on the planet who might weigh 1K lbs are going to be moving around much or walking, much less climbing into a taxi, lol. I know the exaggeration is for effect but c'mon.
There's plenty of people over 250kgs walking around.
Point is are you going to risk a legal case hoping that fat people are too fat to come into your place of business.
 

Pohemi

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Oct 2, 2004
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There's plenty of people over 250kgs walking around.
Point is are you going to risk a legal case hoping that fat people are too fat to come into your place of business.
400kg is 1K lbs. Nobody that size is walking around. No one.
250kg is 550lbs. There are NOT a lot of people that are THAT obese walking around. At least, not very far.

Anyway, I know it was intentional to prove a point, so I won't argue it further. ;)
 

WelshBloke

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400kg is 1K lbs. Nobody that size is walking around. No one.
250kg is 550lbs. There are NOT a lot of people that are THAT obese walking around. At least, not very far.

Anyway, I know it was intentional to prove a point, so I won't argue it further. ;)
You'd be surprised how many people over 250kgs walk into my ward under their own steam!
 
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Zorba

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Redesigning everything to be bigger and stronger for very obese people is a real cost. I don't really consider making theaters for typical BMI up to 33 is discrimination against people at BMI up at 40.

Designing every airplane to hold 400 pound people would end airlines.

I don't think people should face real discrimination and I do think overweight women are often perceived as being lazy, etc. But designing for the normal range of humans is already quite difficult and expensive.
 

Vic

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FWIW, I believe obesity is a serious health epidemic that is primarily the result of poor dietary habits and should be treated as such.
That being said, I see no reason to discriminate against obese persons or to refuse to provide reasonable accomodation.
Of course it shouldn't be considered discrimination if a landlord tells a 500 lb prospective tenant that a 6 story walk up isn't the best choice for them, but at the same time, that's the outlier and the reality is most times it's people being dicks.
 
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Vic

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Redesigning everything to be bigger and stronger for very obese people is a real cost. I don't really consider making theaters for typical BMI up to 33 is discrimination against people at BMI up at 40.

Designing every airplane to hold 400 pound people would end airlines.

I don't think people should face real discrimination and I do think overweight women are often perceived as being lazy, etc. But designing for the normal range of humans is already quite difficult and expensive.
I'm 6'1" and 195 lbs (at 51) and I don't fit in most airlines' economy seats. They don't get any sympathy from me.
While most new cinemas already have oversized seating (because that's what customers want).
I see the argument about the expense here, but at the same time I don't see discrimination and public shaming as the solution to the obesity problem.
 
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WelshBloke

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"...supporters cited difficulty navigating seating at restaurants and theatres, getting turned away by landlords, and butting up against weight limits on the city's bike sharing programme."

I get that the landlord thing isn't ok (unless there's a good reason like it's a listed building and the access can't be changed) but all the others there?

I mean bikes have weight limits as a safety thing! Thank goodness there aren't lots of riding schools in the area! My local riding school has a weight limit of 82kgs, I'm guessing that wouldn't fly!
 

Vic

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"...supporters cited difficulty navigating seating at restaurants and theatres, getting turned away by landlords, and butting up against weight limits on the city's bike sharing programme."

I get that the landlord thing isn't ok (unless there's a good reason like it's a listed building and the access can't be changed) but all the others there?

I mean bikes have weight limits as a safety thing! Thank goodness there aren't lots of riding schools in the area! My local riding school has a weight limit of 82kgs, I'm guessing that wouldn't fly!
I will grant that many requested accomodations will not be reasonable.

But I dunno.. I see obese people as victims of a food culture that is pushing people to be obese. As evidence, I offer that almost half of Americans are obese. Almost half! And that number is increasing, not just in America but everywhere.
The gluttony and bad choices argument made sense (kinda) when only a small percentage of people were obese. But when it's everywhere, it's a much greater problem.
And for the record, I blame sugar and (even worse) artificial sweeteners. And the completely wrong low-fat crusade.
 
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pauldun170

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"City Councilman Shaun Abreu said weight discrimination was "a silent burden people have had to carry"
(Shamelessly chuckles)
 

HomerJS

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What does no discrimination even mean? Yes you can’t stop a 400lb guy from the all you can eat buffet but that should not mean airlines have to make seats for 400lb guys.

Airlines are partially to blame for the seating. They’ve been squeezing people closer for the last 20+ years
 
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WelshBloke

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I will grant that many requested accomodations will not be reasonable.

But I dunno.. I see obese people as victims of a food culture that is pushing people to be obese. As evidence, I offer that almost half of Americans are obese. Almost half! And that number is increasing, not just in America but everywhere.
The gluttony and bad choices argument made sense (kinda) when only a small percentage of people were obese. But when it's everywhere, it's a much greater problem.
And for the record, I blame sugar and (even worse) artificial sweeteners. And the completely wrong low-fat crusade.
I'm not throwing guilt. It doesn't really matter if it's their fault or not. If you weigh a lot it costs more for an aeroplane to get you somewhere (just as an example), who should pay the costs for that? You? The air company? All the other passengers?
If you weigh a lot it doesn't always matter why, the accommodations are the same.
 

MrSquished

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Jan 14, 2013
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Why continue to call yourself a liberal when your belief system is entirely tribal? :)

Tribes aren't real? I'm not just a liberal, I'm a realist.

A lot of liberals apparently live in la la land.
 

Vic

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I'm not throwing guilt. It doesn't really matter if it's their fault or not. If you weigh a lot it costs more for an aeroplane to get you somewhere (just as an example), who should pay the costs for that? You? The air company? All the other passengers?
If you weigh a lot it doesn't always matter why, the accommodations are the same.
You know that this is exactly the kind of argument that conservatives make about literally everything, yes? That there's some group of downtrodden others whose own interests somehow require conservatives to empty their wallets, even when that narrative is total horseshit?
This doesn't cost YOU anything. It is nothing but vanity that you think so. And the actual cost to us, if that's so important to you, comes from the interests who are profitting off making people into pigs. That's where are our anger needs to be.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Tribes aren't real? I'm not just a liberal, I'm a realist.

A lot of liberals apparently live in la la land.
You think liberals live in la la land because you're not a liberal.

Liberalism is the antithesis of tribalism and nationalism. It is the belief that all of us, every human being regardless of identity or station, are entitled to political dignity and equal protection of the laws.

Grow up and be better than the people you disagree with. Otherwise how could or should anyone tell you apart?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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You think liberals live in la la land because you're not a liberal.

Liberalism is the antithesis of tribalism and nationalism. It is the belief that all of us, every human being regardless of identity or station, are entitled to political dignity and equal protection of the laws.

Grow up and be better than the people you disagree with. Otherwise how could or should anyone tell you apart?

Read a history book you hippie dippie. You are the reason so many people have suffered in the world.