New year...new machine

[futura65]

So I think my old tower is about as tapped as it can be at this point. It was built 6 years ago. DFI lanparty MOBO, AMD 64 Processor 3200, Winfast PX6600 GT, 4 internal hard drives, 4gb Ram...it's old like I said, but when I built it it was near top of what I could obtain I've recently bought a new quad core laptop for work and am loving most everything about it. So I need to upgrade my home workstation to match the portable system in OS, performance etc...

My work involves 3D modeling/rendering, extremely large photo and video files, multi tasking as usual between all those while building a project. Needless to say I push my machines to their max and nearly everything I use taps multi core to its full potential. I'm looking to do the same thing as I did last time which is build a machine that will last for a good long while. I don't care to build a machine every couple years.

I don't want to say price isn't an option, but I'm well expecting to drop some money on the system. I bought the dell quad core i7 M6500 laptop over the summer when it wasn't nearly as cheap as it is now. So I like to buy for the long haul
-I'm in USA
-I prefer Intel, nvida, segate.
-I don't do overclocking and all that...I just hit render.
-I always have dual monitors, might go for 3+ since I've got several around, and as money comes in and price goes down I'll be looking for possible dual 24" or 30"

I built this wish list back in August on newegg. The mobo and v-card are no longer available. So I'm looking for input on the list I had built in general and how I can improve on it and replace the items that are no longer available. I appreciate any input and thank you in advance. I'll answer any questions anyone has to help understand what I'm looking for in this new system. Hopefully the parts list bellow will give you and indication where I am heading and looking for it to land. If there are any new developments in hardware I should be aware of from August when I compiled this list please let me know.

CASE
--COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1 Black Steel/ Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case

MOBO
--GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD9 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 XL ATX Intel Motherboard

VIDEO CARD
--SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100281-2GVXSR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ...

POWER SUPPLY
--CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-1000HX 1000W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active ...

CPU
--Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition Gulftown 3.33GHz LGA 1366 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80613I7980X

MEMORY
--CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model TR3X6G1600C8 G

 

[biostud]

just get an UD7 or UD5 and save a lot of money, without performance hit.
Get a GTX580 instead since some of the programs you use might have CUDA support
Get an SSD and maybe 12Gb memory if you really run heavy workloads.

 

[muskie32]

You may want to wait for sandy bridge.

I have also seen that CPU sold on a few different forums for $600-$700, so if you want to save a few bucks you may want to look around

 

[futura65]

Hey thanks guys,
Yeah obviously the big hit to the $$ is that processor. I know it's been out for a while, and hope to find some deals, so that's why I'm designing with that in mind. I've been seeing more about sandy bridge, and this means maybe an 8 core machines yes? This article doesn't talk about anything other than a quad core CPU. http://www.anandtech.com/show/3871/the-sandy-bridge-preview-three-wins-in-a-row
But price point on a top CPU when those come out, I wonder, plus maybe drive down cost of the one I'm looking at perhaps? Will be tricky decision. I'm not scarred to spend 1/3 more if I get twice as much...ya know.

I'll check out that GTX580, yeah my graphics requirements are pretty high with the 3D stuff. I have been thinking about a SSD, in my machines my C: drive is OS and programs only...the other drives are for files, renders, and additional overflow space. So I don't need a monster drive as my primary. It's amazing how you all of a sudden sometimes need a few gigs of temporary backup when moving things around or needing to deal with a folder full of 1000's of sequence images. Depending on where I am when I build will determine the RAM...if I find that honey deal on the processor I'll pack some more RAM in for sure! Thanks again for these and any additional thoughts.

 

[Zap]

-I prefer Intel, nvida, segate.
...
--SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100281-2GVXSR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 2GB

Prefer Nvidia, but choose AMD/ATI? Guess you really want more than 2 monitor support. You could get by using two cheap cards to drive up to 4 monitors, since all X58 boards have at least two PCIe x16 slots.

BTW do you really need the power of such a card? Do you game or does your software use GPU acceleration? If your software does not actually use GPU acceleration then a higher end card is a complete waste of money. Also, some GPU accelerated software doesn't actually need much GPU power. Do some research on the software you actually use (or are planning to use) to see their GPU requirements before choosing a card. For instance some software may require CUDA, which is NVIDIA only.

--COOLER MASTER HAF

Do you care about the system being quiet when you're doing work?

--GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD9

As long as it has the features you want (for instance if you want USB 3.0 or Firewire) since you aren't overclocking then one X58 board will perform exactly the same as another. Go for one that is cheap with a good warranty.

--CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-1000HX

You don't need 1000W, plus this unit is an older design that isn't as good as newer designs. Even with your CPU and graphics card choices, and a bunch of HDDs, you probably won't need more than 550W or so. If you want Corsair and modular, and if you want a bit extra power just in case, look for a Corsair 650HX.

--Intel Core i7-980X

If you want six cores and Intel, then it is either this or the Core i7 970 for $100 less. Tough choices but if it is within your budget... Alternately you can get a six core AMD for a lot less, but you probably knew that already. Or, you can just get a Core i5 950 for now since it should run circles around your old desktop already, plus still be faster than your quad core notebook.

For the immediate future Sandy Bridge will replace the lower end socket 1156, so if you already choose socket 1366 over socket 1156, then you would likely still choose it over socket 1155 (Sandy Bridge) for the same reasons.

--CORSAIR XMS3 6GB DDR3 1600 TR3X6G1600C8 G

That kit has been around a while. I wouldn't quite recommend it because it is already at the maximum recommended 1.65V. I would recommend a kit that only requires 1.5V. There are 1.5V 6GB DDR3 1333 kits starting at $55, or Corsair XMS3 starting at $70. If you want the faster DDR3 1600, I see a G.Skill PI series 1600 CAS 7 1.5v for $120. TBH I would go cheap. If I spent more on RAM I would look at going 12GB (saying "I" meaning "you" since you don't upgrade much).

 

[futura65]

You know I may have been on crack when I clicked that video card....I will be wanting an nvidia card. The gtx580 looks good...and yes I need a powerhouse graphics card for what I do. 3D studio max , video editing etc...
Might you suggest a quieter case and keeps things cool? I like room to work inside.
And back to the sandy bridge, will they have anything above a quad core? Rendering is exponential so there are benefits in more cores/threads running.
I had issues with my old machine and a hard drive that wouldn't recognise because of the power supply. I don't want to fall short in the future when I go to add something.
All this advice is great, I will do a new build list with everything I'm hearing.

 

[futura65]

You know I may have been on crack when I clicked that video card....I will be wanting an nvidia card. The gtx580 looks good...and yes I need a powerhouse graphics card for what I do. 3D studio max , video editing etc...
Might you suggest a quieter case and keeps things cool? I like room to work inside.
And back to the sandy bridge, will they have anything above a quad core? Rendering is exponential so there are benefits in more cores/threads running.
I had issues with my old machine and a hard drive that wouldn't recognise because of the power supply. I don't want to fall short in the future when I go to add something.
All this advice is great, I will do a new build list with everything I'm hearing.

 

[Davidh373]

The more powerful the card, the easier it is for you to work smoothly while modeling high poly scenes. Once you hit 2 mil you never go back lol. Anyways, the 580 is great, but the thing is it's soooo horridly expensive. The 570 is at a great price.

Anyways, how much animation rendering do you really do? The 970 six core won't do much harm instead of the 980X, and it will be cheaper. I know I've had this 920 up to 23 min. per frame, so a 30 second animation would take forever!

Sandy bridge wouldn't be worth the wait for your purposes.

The 970 and 980x seem neck and neck. You could go and put that $120 you save into a Quadro card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-324-_-Product

Bench

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/157?vs=142

As you can see, 3DS Max scores them ~ the same.

 

[DominionSeraph]

How about 32 cores?

Four Opteron 6128's ($1100) in a Tyan S8812 ~$850?

 

[Davidh373]

How about 32 cores?

Four Opteron 6128's ($1100) in a Tyan S8812 ~$850?

You do realize he still needs this to be a workstation right? It isn't a dedicated rendering machine. He still needs a really beefy Graphics card (Quadro 3000 or Geforce GTX 580) ~$600 an SSD (preferred) ~$150, a storage drive ~$60, RAM (prolly best around 12GB) ~$200. There is more to a 3D workstation than just processing power. It's about 50-50 Graphics/Processor.

 

[DominionSeraph]

There is more to a 3D workstation than just processing power. It's about 50-50 Graphics/Processor.

Expansion Slots PCI-E (1) PCI-E Gen.2 x16 slot (w/ x16 or x8 link) / (1) PCI-E Gen.2 x8 slot (open-end, w/ x0 or x8 link) / (2) PCI-E Gen.2 x8 slots (open-end)

RAM (prolly best around 12GB)

So I should set my sights lower than 16x4GB?

Hmmm... 16x2GB of Registered ECC DDR3 1333 is $879.84. Not bad.

 

[mfenn]

Cross post from your other thread, but mostly echoes Zap's opinions.

Sorry, but buying the most expensive component in every category isn't a very smart idea. The only thing on your previous list that was even remotely justified was the 980X. The rest of the stuff was a complete waste of money that didn't add to the performance for your intended task. So I guess it's a good thing that you didn't buy it. :awe:

Also, a little general education on buying machines for longevity: buying the top-end component is still a really dumb idea. In 5 years, you will not care that your part was 10% faster than anything else that was available at the time. You'll just know that it is still slow as dirt. If you don't care to build a machine every 2 to 3 years (understandable), you should probably look into getting a Dell every 2-3 years instead. That'll keep you far more current.

Finally, here's a build:
i7 970 + ASUS Sabertooth combo $1050 - Westmere without the premium for the unlocked multiplier
G.Skill DDR3 1333 12GB $150 - if your projects are as big as you say, you should be looking at 12GB minimum. This gives you the option to go to 24GB later. No point in going for DDR3 1600 since the Westmere won't run it at that speed without an OC.
GTX 460 1GB $180 - You want CUDA, but you don't need to go crazy. The software that you mentioned don't really need a monster GPU (especially not video editing). Remember kids, just because it involves "graphics" does not mean that it heavily uses the graphics card's shaders.
Vertex 2 120GB $230 - It's a crime not to put an SSD in a machine of this caliber
Samsung F3 1TB $70 - Add as many of these as you need
Samsung DVD Burner $18
Seasonic S12II 520W $70 - You really don't need a huge PSU
Antec P183 $162 - Quiet competence
Total: $1930 w/ 1 HDD

 

[Davidh373]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidh373
There is more to a 3D workstation than just processing power. It's about 50-50 Graphics/Processor.
Expansion Slots PCI-E (1) PCI-E Gen.2 x16 slot (w/ x16 or x8 link) / (1) PCI-E Gen.2 x8 slot (open-end, w/ x0 or x8 link) / (2) PCI-E Gen.2 x8 slots (open-end)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidh373
RAM (prolly best around 12GB)
So I should set my sights lower than 16x4GB?

No, that would be awesome, but your parts only included Motherboard and Processors and you were already spending what the OP was initially. I mean, great if he wants to spend 3x what he originally was, but I doubt that's the case.

The point was that he still needs an expensive Graphics Card, a pretty good bit of RAM, SSD, HDD, and a power supply. Added up your's is already at $1900, where his added up to ~$2010.94 (with UD7 instead of UD9 for being out of stock on Newegg). So he has ~ $100 for RAM, Graphics Card, Power Supply, and Case based on what he had in his list already...

 

[Davidh373]

Finally, here's a build:
i7 970 + ASUS Sabertooth combo $1050 - Westmere without the premium for the unlocked multiplier
G.Skill DDR3 1333 12GB $150 - if your projects are as big as you say, you should be looking at 12GB minimum. This gives you the option to go to 24GB later. No point in going for DDR3 1600 since the Westmere won't run it at that speed without an OC.
GTX 460 1GB $180 - You want CUDA, but you don't need to go crazy. The software that you mentioned don't really need a monster GPU (especially not video editing). Remember kids, just because it involves "graphics" does not mean that it heavily uses the graphics card's shaders.
Vertex 2 120GB $230 - It's a crime not to put an SSD in a machine of this caliber
Samsung F3 1TB $70 - Add as many of these as you need
Samsung DVD Burner $18
Seasonic S12II 520W $70 - You really don't need a huge PSU
Antec P183 $162 - Quiet competence
Total: $1930 w/ 1 HDD

The only problem with this build (sorry mfenn) is the graphics. Graphics card is a HUGE part of working in 3D. The higher poly your scene gets (normally past the 500k count) the slower it gets and the more items the app needs to hide while you modify the models (really important to see what you're working on imo). It would be better for him to invest money in a quadro 3000 over a geforce 580 than a 980X instead of the 970. The drivers on those cards are specifically made for stability during 3D work.

 

[DominionSeraph]

No, that would be awesome, but your parts only included Motherboard and Processors and you were already spending what the OP was initially. I mean, great if he wants to spend 3x what he originally was, but I doubt that's the case.

But that's the thing, it only looks to be 2x.

Proc + mobo $1900
RAM $900 (16x2GB)
Video $500
Storage $400
Case + PSU $400

$4100

And it should give better rendering performance than dual X6850's which would be $3400 in processors alone.

OP didn't specify a budget.

But if a quad-core laptop is good enough for him then I guess he probably doesn't need quite this level of performance.

("Generic 1366 build with Gulftown," was just too boring for me. I had to spice things up.)

 

[mfenn]

The only problem with this build (sorry mfenn) is the graphics. Graphics card is a HUGE part of working in 3D. The higher poly your scene gets (normally past the 500k count) the slower it gets and the more items the app needs to hide while you modify the models (really important to see what you're working on imo). It would be better for him to invest money in a quadro 3000 over a geforce 580 than a 980X instead of the 970. The drivers on those cards are specifically made for stability during 3D work.

He's perfectly happy with a mobile GPU, so my point still stands. Not to mention that it seems a good chunk of his time is spent video editing. We really need more specific information about the OP's typical workflow, but I stand behind my point in the general case.

I to agree about the Quadro 2000/4000 though. He really doesn't want a Quadro FX 3000 (that's an AGP card!).

 

[futura65]

Hey guys,
so just trying to wade through all the info everyone's posting. Here's a link I found about testing and certification that's been done http://download.autodesk.com/us/qualcharts/2011/3dsmax2011_qualifiedgraphics_win.pdf

Looks to support what some have said about the quadro 4000/5000. But boy that price jump is no joke....well sort of. Between the GTX580 and the Quadro 4000 is a $300 dif. the Quadro 5000...forget about it, out of range. If I saw the Quadro 4000 on a good sale, perhaps. Otherwise I thinking the GTX580 will work out just fine both in performance and price. Oh and I saw someone say I wouldn't need much more than a 550w power supply....I read somewhere the GTX580 need's at least a 600w supply. So I tend to still think my 1000w range was not crazy. Maxing out a power supply doesn't ever seem like a good idea to me.

I need to look up what I spent on my current machine to see what percentage I devoted for which items. I know you can't completly compair prices from then to now, but for the most part price ranges tend to remain similar, it's just what your getting that changes.

I wouldn't say the majority of my time is video editing, I would say the majority of the major heavy load work that's done in order is , Photo editing, 3D modeling, 3D rendering, CAD (2d/3d), video editing.

thanks a bunch

 

[Davidh373]

Looks to support what some have said about the quadro 4000/5000. But boy that price jump is no joke....well sort of. Between the GTX580 and the Quadro 4000 is a $300 dif. the Quadro 5000...forget about it, out of range. If I saw the Quadro 4000 on a good sale, perhaps. Otherwise I thinking the GTX580 will work out just fine both in performance and price. Oh and I saw someone say I wouldn't need much more than a 550w power supply....I read somewhere the GTX580 need's at least a 600w supply. So I tend to still think my 1000w range was not crazy. Maxing out a power supply doesn't ever seem like a good idea to me.

1000W isn't extreme, but I would recommend a 750W just to be safe. The 3000 is pretty impressive and isn't NEAR as expensive as I thought for 2GB GDDR5.

 

[mfenn]

The real difference between the Quadro and Geforce cards are the drivers. You really don't need the raw shader power of a GTX 580, but the Quadro drivers are quite nice.

As for the PSU, if you decide to get a GTX 580 (which I don't recommend), you will be fine with a 750W PSU. With the Quadro 4000 or lower, a 550W is fine. You really should be running your PSU at about 80% capacity when the system is at full load because that's where you get your best efficiency. A 1000W PSU is a waste of money both on the initial purchase price and in ongoing operating costs.

 

[Davidh373]

A 1000W PSU is a waste of money both on the initial purchase price and in ongoing operating costs.

That's right!