New Win10 Install: SSD and HDD Weirdness - I think I figured it out...

[PianoMan]

I moved my continuing challenges on my secondary computer to this forum from General Hardware:

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ssroads-for-an-upgrade.2490334/#post-38558281

It's a long story - my questions are at the bottom of this post, but the drama is long and distinguished as detailed below.

After getting help deciding to just replace the boot PNY SSD (which most likely isn't faulty), I pulled my Intel X25-M 160GB SSD from video encoding scratch disk duty (on my main) and did a quick USB install of Win10 so I can continue to use my secondary. No problems whatsoever. Both my document and backup HDDs were there during install, and I could access each running the new load.

I ordered a Samsung 850 Evo (500GB) and it arrived in two days.

I did the exact same USB install on the 850 Evo, but it wouldn't take. My initial sign of problems was when Win10 setup didn't give the usual message of creating additional partitions when I first started. I examine the other two HDDs on the Win10 setup screen, and they look fine. So Win10 installs and I switch boot priority - I get a no boot device error. I switch back to the Intel - all is OK.

Scratching my head, I then read about some "compatibility" issues with Evo's and older motherboards, particularly Asus. I see a VERY short list of compatible SSDs on Asus website (dated mid-2015) - no mention of the 850 Evo 500GB (but does mention the 1TB), and the rest are OCZ, Crucial, Plex - and all 240GB. Crucial's website said the MX300 525GB is compatible with my specific motherboard, so I order that one - it arrived yesterday.

Very similar Win10 setup experience with the MX300. No "extra partition" warning at setup, but on the setup screen, my document drive (previously my D: drive) shows as completely empty - an "OMG, WTF" moment. I switch back to Intel - and everything's still there. After installation, the MX300 shows the same "no-bootable installation" error.

I've been thinking up to this point that the hardware's fine - just a driver or interaction issue.

So I disconnect the two HDDs, leaving only the MX300 and USB drives, and Win10 installs WITH NO ISSUE. Reconnecting the HDDs, the Doc drive shows empty, but the Backup drive is fine.

I do the same with the Evo - and all's well with Win10, but it also show the Doc drive as empty. I have been routinely doing intermittent boots with the Intel - and the data has remained intact.

Here's the fun part: I thought "why not install RST and drivers" on the Evo, reconnect the hard drives, and reboot. ZOMG...

AT START UP, Win10 SPLASH SCREEN SHOWS "SCANNING AND REPAIRING DRIVE D:"

Yep - u guessed it, my Doc drive is wiped. The Evo install still recognizes the drive as empty - but booting up on the Intel, no data remains.

I'm now restoring all contents from my backup that will take 8 hours. YEP - THAT JUST HAPPENED. I'm going to throw some donation money to CrashPlan as it saved my life here.

Here's what I think and have questions on:
- It's obvious there's some interaction between the SSD and HDDs. I'm not a storage expert, but my short question is do the storage drives talk or rely on each other when hooked up to the SATA bus?
- I expect the Doc and Backup drives were formatted at different times (the Doc earlier than Backup). Could this be the reason why Win10 couldn't recognize one as having data but have no problems with the other?

Sorry for the long winded story. After the restore, I plan on booting up with the Evo and Doc drive, and I expect to see the restored data. I'm thinking of getting a new 2 or 3TB HDD, reformatting on the new Win10 install, transferring all the data over. Once done, reformat the Backup drive, and then initiate a backup so I have a ground truth baseline backup as of this date.

 

[VirtualLarry]

These issues are exactly why NAS units (and WHS, in the past) are getting more popular.

Recent versions of Windows (Windows 7 and newer) do "messy" things, when installing the OS with additional data drives / partitions installed. I've witnessed the same thing myself, on a re-install of Win7. 1TB WD Green drive, partitioned into a C and D. D was my data drive. I deleted the C drive and re-created it, and re-installed, and when it was done with the installation, my D partition was "RAW". Whoops. Glad I didn't have anything important on there.

This is one of several reasons, why they always say, when installing Windows, ONLY HAVE THE OS DRIVE CONNECTED. DON'T connect any other drives. If you have other drives, UNPLUG them, when installing.

 

[PianoMan]

Thanks - this looks to stem from an inadequate driver load on Win10 setup. It "says" it'll work, but not until you load the AHCI drivers (RST) do I feel confident data transfer is accurate.

So an update - I restored my backup onto the D: drive via the Intel SSD with the new Win10 install. No problems. I bring it back to the Evo install - still can't see it. I recreate the partition on the Evo install, bring it back to the Intel SSD, restore just a few files, bring it back to the Evo setup - and BOOM! Nothing.

As it was doing screwy things with my Data drive, I hesitated connecting my Backup drive to the Evo SATA bus (no problems before, but you never know). Turns out (after praying some and a few crossed fingers), all was fine. And I'm doing a second full restore on the new Evo Win10 install. I believe I should be good.

Lesson learned for me (Win10 installs with just the OS drive connected) - thankfully, it wasn't learned via a disaster.

But still - why did I have so many problems with the D: drive in just bringing it over to a new install? Corrupted boot record? Now that I think of it, the Intel SSD doesn't have RST installed...

 

[ch33zw1z]

Lesson learned. I also only do OS installs with just the OS drive(s) attached.

I had a problem long ago that was similar.

 

[PianoMan]

I'm with you - OS drive only installs will be my SOP from now on.

But why did a HDD (my Data D: drive) not be recognized by a clean Win10 install? I installed Win10 with only the OS drive attached; when I then added my two HDDs (Data and Backup) - both were recognized, but one was displayed as "empty" (when it wasn't - my Data drive) while the other (Backup) was shown just fine?

Based on this, would it be safest to install NEW secondary HDDs for data, initialize/format on the new OS install, and transfer data from the old HDDs via USB? Seems this whole issue is due to Win10's implementation of intrinsic SATA drivers.

I'm still scratching my head...