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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
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Well, you did not work for the company/department I did. It was a big company (>100,000 employees) and someones laptop was always breaking. My old manager became afriend, and after we both retired, I have replaced her personal laptop 3 times in 5 years. I don't care who believes me, I know what I saw.
Not saying you are lying or anything. But someone who has to replace their laptop 3 times in 5 years? You never thought about it being an issue with the person using it? I've had tons of laptops and I've never had one die. I've had hard drive failures, but that's easy enough to fix.

Things breaking are different than laptops flat out dying.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
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Yeah i know people who get the cheap lap tops thinking they got a good deal, they usually ALL have issues with the things after some time. The curb find i mentioned from earlier seemed like a solid one and i was surprised it even worked flawlessly minus the bad usb port. Looked like something got stuck in it and someone got a knife to it but overall fully functional.

I think most mobile cheap stuff is deliberately designed to fail, i have a Motorolla E5 play and i swear with the updates i get harped for they usually break something. I am having all kinds of issues with it as before during last year i swore it was the best phone. I even did a full on restore and STILL issues so its not me. Coincidence has it both friends both got LGS same time as me and both are having issues. Not even 2 years old.

Forced obsolescence should be illegal. Not sure if i got a case but i got many more examples of perfectly good phones deliberately breaking. I may be contacting a attorney. I called Metro with the complaints, all i get told is to buy a new $200 phone. Well isn't that dramatically convenient?
Not sure the quality.. They were Dell at first, then changed to HP. The company was on a 3 year hardware refresh, and most of the laptops did not make it to 3 years.

Oh, and Linus, not sure what she was doing, the hard drives, the battery were the 2 things usually dying. And sometimes the CPU fans. They were <$600 each, so that could have been it.

Edit: below are 2 of them I have not recycled yet: Notice the very well worn keyboards
 
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mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
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Not sure the quality.. They were Dell at first, then changed to HP. The company was on a 3 year hardware refresh, and most of the laptops did not make it to 3 years.
Bingo, people should have a class action lawsuit against these companies. These are the brands my friends usually buy and well like you say they never last that long. Designed MAYBE to outlast the warranty. I got a desktop that is from 2011 that is still fully functional. Yeah a BFG 500watt Psu from like 2008 buzzing in 2018 when i replaced it doesn't make that a lemon either.

I strongly believe planned obsolescence is a thing and it should be illegal . The people i know who fork over for the cheap lap tops usually are saving for MONTHS. Getting another one isn't exactly a easy feat mind you.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,565
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I had a G5 too, it was pretty ok for a while. But tbqh I went back to Blu. Weirdly their policy of not constantly burying you in updates actually kinda works out nicely if you take care of your stuff. Only issue I've ever had with Blus is letting my kiddo play on mine and he drops the poor thing lol.

Never get the cheapest models, they're garbage as you'd expect, but their $100-$120ish stuff is usually fantastic for the money. Very light stock OS, decent specs, and easy to customize. Sort of the opposite of Samsung : expensive, jammed to the hilt with crapware and needless duplication of everything, apple wannabe that is just as bad in many ways if not worse.
 

mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
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Never get the cheapest models, they're garbage as you'd expect, but their $100-$120ish stuff is usually fantastic for the money. Very light stock OS, decent specs, and easy to customize. Sort of the opposite of Samsung : expensive, jammed to the hilt with crapware and needless duplication of everything, apple wannabe that is just as bad in many ways if not worse.
Here's a beautiful concept, put the same craftsmanship into every laptop PERIOD then idk swap out the monitor/ gpu/cpu/ram/hard drive depending on budget? Why should people who opt for a i3 for example have to put up with trash quality cause they decided they wanted a i3 with Intel onboard? For basic usage i would be content with a i3 lappy but apparently i gotta put up with crap quality as well? Talk about a big load of "insert" whatever comes to mind there.

Its not like all the cheap Mcdonalds plastic or even aluminum is saving them all that much money, you already know they already have good profit margins. Also if every lap top was built of quality no matter the specs, it would be better on them less returns warranties and fixing them.
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Not sure the quality.. They were Dell at first, then changed to HP. The company was on a 3 year hardware refresh, and most of the laptops did not make it to 3 years.

Oh, and Linus, not sure what she was doing, the hard drives, the battery were the 2 things usually dying. And sometimes the CPU fans. They were <$600 each, so that could have been it.

Edit: below are 2 of them I have not recycled yet: Notice the very well worn keyboards
Ah man. I got chills looking at the HPs there. Idk how they made them soooo flimsy for so long. The silver ones especially, I've never seen so many where the hinges just disintegrate on them, and the design is so bad that it actually rips the screw receptacle right out of the back of the LCD housing (seems to be caused by both awful tiny hinge mounting area combined with not enough grease on the hinges themselves). It's funny because the problem was so widespread that the cost of the replacement rear LCD covers was wildly higher than normal ($150+ instead of $20-$40 like most laptops).

Dell Latitude (regular E models, not the ultra Slim's) seem to last pretty well, and Thinkpad T4xx. Both of those usually last 5+ years if not dropped etc, and parts are plentiful and cheap, and they actually give you easy access to things.

Dell consumer laptops and the ultra slim crap otoh I have started to just outright not work on and tell people to choose better. Anything you have to basically completely deshell to swap a HDD/SSD, or worse yet, has SOLDERED on storage and ram, is just disposable trash. I outright tell people that MacBooks are gutter trash these days. Anyone thinking of buying one of those overpriced shitstacks needs to watch some Louis Rossman.

Anyway, as far as OP, $3k should buy a loaded 3700x 2080ti premium box IMHO, without going with one of the cases that can't breathe properly. Mesh front and top is about as good as we can get currently.
 

mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
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Ah man. I got chills looking at the HPs there. Idk how they made them soooo flimsy for so long. The silver ones especially, I've never seen so many where the hinges just disintegrate on them, and the design is so bad that it actually rips the screw receptacle right out of the back of the LCD housing
I worked on a friends Hp that was exactly as you described, she loved the thing for her usage but yeah the entire thing was a pile of trash. I would rather fund the second coming of a Third Reich then give Dell Or Hp any money. I had a friend who had a Hp back in the day, she babied it and the keyboard crapped out twice, the screen crapped out as well. Second keyboard they installed no joke, they wiped her entire partition of W7 without backing up and she got a lesser version on top of it. They told her deal with it.
 
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maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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Well, you did not work for the company/department I did. It was a big company (>100,000 employees) and someones laptop was always breaking. My old manager became afriend, and after we both retired, I have replaced her personal laptop 3 times in 5 years. I don't care who believes me, I know what I saw.
Statistically, large populations see tail effects more clearly . For example assuming an average lifetime of 30,000 days, if you were to fill a stadium with 30,000 people representing the general population, you would get a death every day on average.
 

mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
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Statistically, large populations see tail effects more clearly . For example assuming an average lifetime of 30,000 days, if you were to fill a stadium with 30,000 people representing the general population, you would get a death every day on average.
I guess the friend of his was just fine with her laptop crapping out 3 times in 5 years? That's the bigger picture of the post i think. :)
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
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I guess the friend of his was just fine with her laptop crapping out 3 times in 5 years? That's the bigger picture of the post i think. :)
Nope. Bigger picture is not making assumptions using anecdotal evidence. All laptops do not fail after a couple of years. The statement was a bit misleading because it was really geared towards low-end cheap models. Ignoring all of the mid-high end models which, in my experience, can last a decade or more.

Both statements are not counted as factual, without actual data to support it.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
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Nope. Bigger picture is not making assumptions using anecdotal evidence. All laptops do not fail after a couple of years. The statement was a bit misleading because it was really geared towards low-end cheap models. Ignoring all of the mid-high end models which, in my experience, can last a decade or more.

Both statements are not counted as factual, without actual data to support it.
And you think a big corporation with probably a million PC's (a lot in their facilities) is going to go for $2,000 to $3000 laptops ? Everyone I know as a person does not spend that much on their laptops, and the company sure didn't. Its like desktop PC's, do companies use the upper tier ? or the casual gamer ? NO. Just the top tier gamers use high end, laptops or desktops. The HEDT market... Anybody there use a laptop ? NO !
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
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And you think a big corporation with probably a million PC's (a lot in their facilities) is going to go for $2,000 to $3000 laptops ? Everyone I know as a person does not spend that much on their laptops, and the company sure didn't. Its like desktop PC's, do companies use the upper tier ? or the casual gamer ? NO. Just the top tier gamers use high end, laptops or desktops. The HEDT market... Anybody there use a laptop ? NO !
Well, ours does. I use Mac primarily, but they gave me a Dell 2-in-1 touchscreen laptop/table that is fairly decent. It's the only way I can access some of the systems that the company uses.

HEDT (HELT?) laptop? Yeah, you're talking to the wrong person. I do indeed use an HEDT laptop. MacBook Pro, as do my co-workers. Most people in creative services or some sort of media creation uses high end laptops. Obviously that's a special use case, but there are some people who do.

That said, most corporations aren't purchasing $200 laptops either. They use Dell Latitude and other business equivalent. Mid range isn't 2k. You can get a good mid-range laptop for $1k.

All that said, I highly doubt the average life span of a laptop is 2-3 years. I'll be glad to be proven wrong, it's just not what I've seen in my experience.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
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May 16, 2002
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Well, ours does. I use Mac primarily, but they gave me a Dell 2-in-1 touchscreen laptop/table that is fairly decent. It's the only way I can access some of the systems that the company uses.

HEDT (HELT?) laptop? Yeah, you're talking to the wrong person. I do indeed use an HEDT laptop. MacBook Pro, as do my co-workers. Most people in creative services or some sort of media creation uses high end laptops. Obviously that's a special use case, but there are some people who do.

That said, most corporations aren't purchasing $200 laptops either. They use Dell Latitude and other business equivalent. Mid range isn't 2k. You can get a good mid-range laptop for $1k.

All that said, I highly doubt the average life span of a laptop is 2-3 years. I'll be glad to be proven wrong, it's just not what I've seen in my experience.
Lets leave Mac anything out of my statements. The company I worked for did office type things, I am speaking from that experience, not yours, and yes most of the laptops were probably lattitude types, but I am sure they did not pay what WE have to pay.

Edit: And my son works for a drafting/architectural firm and every single machine is a desktop, and with dual monitors. Thats one of the things I call HEDT.
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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The best MacBook Pro is an utter potato next to even a Ryzen 3700 and $300 2060/5700 class GPU, let alone an actually high end desktop. The only reason to use one is either vanity, or you literally have no place to set up an actual desktop.

And due to Apple not using AMD, even their most expensive Mac Pros are utterly pathetic next to TR pro rigs.

Serious businesses with serious computing needs are very poorly served by Apple at the moment. This isn't 1993 anymore. Although regular photo editors and people using GarageBand can get by pretty decently.
 
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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
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The best MacBook Pro is an utter potato next to even a Ryzen 3700 and $300 2060/5700 class GPU, let alone an actually high end desktop. The only reason to use one is either vanity, or you literally have no place to set up an actual desktop.

And due to Apple not using AMD, even their most expensive Mac Pros are utterly pathetic next to TR pro rigs.

Serious businesses with serious computing needs are very poorly served by Apple at the moment. This isn't 1993 anymore. Although regular photo editors and people using GarageBand can get by pretty decently.
Simply not true, but you clearly have your opinion and hate Mac for whatever reason. You've obviously never worked in an industry that requires travel and the ability to work remote.

FYI: As far as your potato comment, I thought this forum required actual data/metric to back up your claims. Here is the latest high end CPU in the MacBook Pro vs. the Ryzen 3700U.

 
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Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
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May 16, 2002
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Simply not true, but you clearly have your opinion and hate Mac for whatever reason. You've obviously never worked in an industry that requires travel and the ability to work remote.

FYI: As far as your potato comment, I thought this forum required actual data/metric to back up your claims. Here is the latest high end CPU in the MacBook Pro vs. the Ryzen 3700U.

Userbenchmark has been debunked here as a worthless benchmark. As far as traveling, the department I was in was flying all over the country, working away, more than in the office. But in that benchmark, the AMD wins.
 
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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
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Userbenchmark has been debunked here as a worthless benchmark. As far as traveling, the department I was in was flying all over the country, working away, more than in the office. But in that benchmark, the AMD wins.
Sorry, wasn't aware of that. It was just one of the first links that came up. Either way, the MacBook Pro is no slouch and him flaming it is a bit lame.

I fly internationally. So when you spend 3 weeks in Europe or Asia, having a high performance laptop is a priority. Some may not understand that, but there's really no need to trash on one and make false claims.

Hopefully a more trusted site and has benchmark results. Not speaking specifically to the CPU manufacture, but pointing out that the CPU that the MBP happens to use is very fast and not a "potato". This may change with the new mobile CPUs coming out, but this is what is available now.

 
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Hitman928

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Apr 15, 2012
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Simply not true, but you clearly have your opinion and hate Mac for whatever reason. You've obviously never worked in an industry that requires travel and the ability to work remote.

FYI: As far as your potato comment, I thought this forum required actual data/metric to back up your claims. Here is the latest high end CPU in the MacBook Pro vs. the Ryzen 3700U.

@Arkaign mentioned the MBP compared to a 3700 (65 W Zen 2 CPU), not a 3700u (15 W Zen+ CPU). They are vastly different processors. He probably should have included the 'x' on the end of the 3700 but I thought it was clear in the context of his post being about a desktop system. With the intended comparison, yes, the 3700x would crush the latest MBP CPU.
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
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@Arkaign mentioned the MBP compared to a 3700 (65 W Zen 2 CPU), not a 3700u (15 W Zen+ CPU). They are vastly different processors. He probably should have included the 'x' on the end of the 3700 but I thought it was clear in the context of his post being about a desktop system. With the intended comparison, yes, the 3700x would crush the latest MBP CPU.
Doesn't make sense to compare a desktop CPU vs a Laptop. I actually got what he was trying to say, but it's just a silly comparison and pointless since we were talking about laptops. He obviously dislikes Apple/Macs for whatever reason. Not really important though.
 

Hitman928

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Apr 15, 2012
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Doesn't make sense to compare a desktop CPU vs a Laptop. I actually got what he was trying to say, but it's just a silly comparison and pointless since we were talking about laptops. He obviously dislikes Apple/Macs for whatever reason. Not really important though.
That was the whole point that he and Mark were trying to make. If you need your computer to do real work, no laptop on the market can hold a candle to even a medium class desktop. The only ones that come close are behemoth laptops that people would never want to carry around anyway because their too big and heavy to use on the go. Obviously if you are traveling a lot and need to do some real work while you go, you can only use what's available in a mobile format.
 

Markfw

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Sorry, wasn't aware of that. It was just one of the first links that came up. Either way, the MacBook Pro is no slouch and him flaming it is a bit lame.

I fly internationally. So when you spend 3 weeks in Europe or Asia, having a high performance laptop is a priority. Some may not understand that, but there's really no need to trash on one and make false claims.

Hopefully a more trusted site and has benchmark results. Not speaking specifically to the CPU manufacture, but pointing out that the CPU that the MBP happens to use is very fast and not a "potato". This may change with the new mobile CPUs coming out, but this is what is available now.

Well, that site is OK, but I didn;t realize cometlake was out for sale yet ? And no comparisons using the macbook pro ? And what about benchmark to Renior ?

I will not take a stand until I see benchmarks of a MacBook pro against the current AMD equivalent.

Hitman928 also has great points on the post above.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Simply not true, but you clearly have your opinion and hate Mac for whatever reason. You've obviously never worked in an industry that requires travel and the ability to work remote.

FYI: As far as your potato comment, I thought this forum required actual data/metric to back up your claims. Here is the latest high end CPU in the MacBook Pro vs. the Ryzen 3700U.

I don't hate Mac, it has its place, but I find some things wildly delusional.

I didn't say "3700U". I said "3700".

3700U isn't even current gen AMD, because of their goofy naming convention. And 'U' is their low power line anyway, lol.

If you don't think I've worked in an industry that requires travel, lol, ok kid. Let's just say I've been to a lot of usually sandy, dirty, unpleasant places doing horrible things for horrible people, for more years than I'd have liked.

But even in a situation where you HAVE to have something mobile, MacBook "Pro" is not very powerful. It's got a nice chassis, and a nice screen, and very good storage speed. Beyond that, ehhhh. CPU, GPU, Ram, storage capacity practicality in ports, even cooling capacity, all pretty average to terrible. They are ok at mild, 'bursty' type loads, but prone to throttling on serious stuff.
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,565
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Doesn't make sense to compare a desktop CPU vs a Laptop. I actually got what he was trying to say, but it's just a silly comparison and pointless since we were talking about laptops. He obviously dislikes Apple/Macs for whatever reason. Not really important though.
Apple leans very heavily to style over substance for at least the past 15 years, and is now pouring salt in the wound by lacking Ryzen.

It does make sense to compare if you have a space for a desktop, or cloud data services and a decent internet connection. You can then use a MBA if you like Mac, or a Surface or other ultralight on travel, log in and do your serious work and have the resulting render etc available in completed form via your Egnyte or SharePoint or your preferred cloud storage service. Tasks which for a MBP type budget (ironically say it's $3k like this OP of our poor thread here) could buy a Ryzen 3900 build if you wanted, or even a TR 2000 series with the right combos, would be beyond comprehension in time saved.

Big compute is simply beyond Intel now.
 
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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
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Well, that site is OK, but I didn;t realize cometlake was out for sale yet ? And no comparisons using the macbook pro ? And what about benchmark to Renior ?

I will not take a stand until I see benchmarks of a MacBook pro against the current AMD equivalent.

Hitman928 also has great points on the post above.
i9-9980HK (9th gen) is the processor in the MacBook Pro (2019) now. It's an 8 core processor (2.4ghz with turbo up to 5ghz). What is the equivalent AMD processor that is out today?

AMD Ryzen 7 3750H is the highest I find. You don't want to accept CPU benchmarks or certain sites, so I'm not sure what to tell you. It's a 4 core CPU and common sense would dictate that the 8-core higher clocked CPU is going to be higher performance and scale better.

I changed the CPU to the 3750H, not the 3700U. I said that originally and quickly changed it. I just don't know enough about their naming convention.

"Apple leans very heavily to style over substance". Yep, they do value style. But I will be the very first to admit that I wasn't fond of Apple years ago (still not for a lot of reasons). Then I started having to use them due to using software that was Apple only at the time. At home, I'm all Windows Server and Pro. I've personally never purchased a Mac. But my work does and they are amazing laptops. They are no doubt expensive, but it's like hating on a Mercedes/BMW/Whatever because they make a premium product for a premium price. Sure, you can get a Toyota and it'll run just as good, but that doesn't mean there are not merits to higher quality products.
 
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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
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If you don't think I've worked in an industry that requires travel, lol, ok kid. Let's just say I've been to a lot of usually sandy, dirty, unpleasant places doing horrible things for horrible people, for more years than I'd have liked.
Obviously not a job requiring you to have a lot of CPU power to do your job. Plus, I'm not a kid. Let's not get personal, OK? You don't want to go down that route and this isn't the appropriate place.
 

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