New to system building

[sparky57]

New to system building

I?m in need of a new gaming rig, and would like to build it myself from scratch, rather than pay some company $150 to do it (and I?d also find it more enjoyable and satisfying).

However, I?m a complete noob when it comes to building from scratch. All I?ve done before are the occasional RAM and PCI card installations.

I?m pretty sure I can figure out how to install everything as long as the manuals are semi-decent. My greatest concern would be damaging components in the process, particularly when installing the CPU, heatsink, and motherboard.

How durable are CPUs and mobos these days? Is there much risk of someone whose only seen low-quality YouTube installation videos damaging these expensive parts? If I do the installation myself, I?d use Tuniq-tx2 for the thermal grease, since it doesn?t have any metal in it and that?d be one less thing for me to worry about. (It also performed better than AS5 in at least one guy?s testing.)

Also, would you recommend I buy one of those $25 system builder toolkits that has demagnetized tools, or is this just a marketing gimmick to sell people stuff they don?t need? In either case, I?d get an antistatic bracelet as an extra precaution against damaging any components. Would I also need rubber gloves?

Thanks in advance for your responses which will hopefully assuage my fears?

 

[Billb2]

Originally posted by: sparky57


I?m in need of a new gaming rig, and would like to build it myself from scratch...'
... All I?ve done before are the occasional RAM and PCI card installations.

If you can change a light bulb, you can build a computer.
If you can walk and chew gum at the same time, you can build a computer.
If you can play with Leggos, you can build a computer.

The actual building is extremely easy. A screwdriver, and maybe a long nose plier (to reach those pesky power/audio/fan plugs) is all you'll need. You do know which end of a screwdriver to use, don't you? If so, then you're eminently qualified

The greatest difficulty is picking parts that will all function together. The actual building is really simple.

As for the anti static stuff, most people never bother.
I know, yada, yada, yada........ Post an instance about where you know that a static discharge irreparably damaged a build, not your "opinion" about whether it would.

 

[DSF]

Read some guides and you'll be fine. If you have a friend who can look over your shoulder while you do it, even better.

Do you have any idea what parts you're going to buy?

 

[jackschmittusa]

I use a magnetized #2 Phillips screwdriver for everything on computers. I just don't lay them on things like floppys.

No need to worry about pressure on a cpu. If aligned properly, it falls in place.

New ram slots can require a fair amount of pressure, but as long as the sticks are aligned and the slots oriented, and the mb is properly supported, no problem.

Test your new components on the bench first. You can put the mb on the bag it came in (I use a 50¢ plastic placemat)

Install the cpu, hsf, ram, and vid card. Connect the psu. Use a pocket screwdriver to momentarily short the 2 pins on the mb for the power switch to turn it on. I usually make any bios changes when doing this as well.

 

[sparky57]

Originally posted by: DSF
Read some guides and you'll be fine. If you have a friend who can look over your shoulder while you do it, even better.

Do you have any idea what parts you're going to buy?

Unfortunately my friends around here are as clueless as I am.

As far as parts go, I will be using a Penryn CPU when they come out in a month or so. I hope to stick it in an Nvidia board if the 7 series has come down in price a little, but if not, I'll likely use a P35. I probably will use a 8800GTX for graphics. As for the rest... yet to be determined...

 

[cozumel]

You need to give a budget as it is impossible to advise otherwise.

 

[sparky57]

Originally posted by: cozumel
You need to give a budget as it is impossible to advise otherwise.

I'll probably end up spending around $1600 for the box, excluding an OEM copy of Vista x64.

The reason I didn't state my budget before is because I primarily wanted to know if people would recommend that someone with my limited experience attempt to assemble a rig... although I guess the price could be relevant, since someone might recommend against a noob handling relatively expensive parts...

Thanks for your enthusiasm

 

[oynaz]

I know, yada, yada, yada........ Post an instance about where you know that a static discharge irreparably damaged a build, not your "opinion" about whether it would.

I have seen it happen to both CPUs and RAM. This was, however, many years ago (I think around 95), while I was working at a computer repair company.
These days, the probability of this happening is essentially zero, unless one does something stupid like wearing rubber gloves!
Simply touch a radiator before handling the parts, and you will be fine.

 

[cozumel]

Does the $1600 include monitor, keyboard, case, PSU or do you already have these and if so which PSU & case do you have please?

Edit: And I second NoelS post below. You came here asking for advice and that is what you will receive. That includes troubleshooting if you do get into any diffculties during the build.

 

[NoelS]

Sparky, you said, "The reason I didn't state my budget before is because I primarily wanted to know if people would recommend that someone with my limited experience attempt to assemble a rig... although I guess the price could be relevant, since someone might recommend against a noob handling relatively expensive parts..."

We're here to help folks regardless of their experience and we'd all be happy to help you along with your new build. It's really easy, and when I found that out a couple of years ago, I was delighted!

As for handling expensive components, a reasonable amount of care will see you though. Just set aside an area (workbench, if you will) where you can put your parts for building and also an area with room where you can build. A nice size table will work, as long as there aren't any "little fingers" looking for things to play with

Ask and we'll help, and welcome to the forum,

Noel

 

[Billb2]

...excluding an OEM copy of Vista x64.

You should really think hard about buying an OEM version. They are severely limited.

64bit OS ...waste of time.........
Performance is worse than 32bit OSs
Drivers can be hard to find. Make sure you can get what you'll need before committing $$$$

And I suppose you're going to use 4 sticks of memory too.........read up on that.

 

[sparky57]

Originally posted by: Billb2
You should really think hard about buying an OEM version. They are severely limited.

Thanks for the heads up. Before I looked it up, I thought OEM was the same as retail, only that I couldn't ever install it on another computer... but apparently if I upgrade my motherboard, Vista will consider that a "new" computer? And I'd then be required to buy a new copy, or lie to Microsoft to get my copy reactivated?

I could be mistaken, but I thought I read somewhere that MS was discontinuing its requirement that you call in to reactivate Vista after making system upgrades... did this only apply to retail versions?

Thanks for bringing this issue (and the others) to my attention! Noobs like myself are in need of these sorts of rescues!

 

[cozumel]

Originally posted by: Billb2

...excluding an OEM copy of Vista x64.

You should really think hard about buying an OEM version. They are severely limited.

64bit OS ...waste of time.........
Performance is worse than 32bit OSs
Drivers can be hard to find. Make sure you can get what you'll need before committing $$$$

And I suppose you're going to use 4 sticks of memory too.........read up on that.

OEM is very good value sparky. Saves a heap of money. The restriction is that you can only use it with one motherboard (ie is only for one pc). And 64-bit is great performance and with new components you won't have any problem with drivers. Things were bad on the 64-bit front a while back but since it is now a OS model used by the masses the drivers have been updated accordingly.

I've used all four memory slots in my last 2 builds and built hundreds (literally) of other systems with a similar configuration. It can cause problems but it is dependant on the mobo. I've never had a problem on any Gigabyte board. Using 2x2GB sticks will also effect performance for different reasons so I guess it is swings and roundabouts.

Edit: And just to add. For current games there is a requirement of 1.5 - 2GB RAM and that will soon rise. You will need 4GB to make a true gaming machine and that will mean a Vista x64 which is without doubt the best MS OS ever produced. Spanks XP sideways.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: Billb2
64bit OS ...waste of time.........
Performance is worse than 32bit OSs
Drivers can be hard to find. Make sure you can get what you'll need before committing $$$$

And I suppose you're going to use 4 sticks of memory too.........read up on that.

Ok, bring on the benchmarks to back up that statement about worse performance versus 32-bit OS.

With this being a new build I would not expect drivers to be an issue at all. I run Vista 64 and it even had a working driver for an obscure left-hand controller ("The Claw"). Surprised the heck out of me that it worked to be honest, I figured I was going to need a different off-hand controller for my gaming.

And if you plan correctly, with the intent of running 64-bit OS, just buy 2x2GB sticks and be done with it. You can get DDR2-800 rated sticks at Newegg for <$100 these days so that's not a concern.

EDIT: To address the OEM issue, yes--the EULA states that you can only use it with a single system. However, I have personally helped many people migrate to a different motherboard and either re-activate online or just call the hotline and get a new activation code. I have never had Microsoft reject one of these requests, even for a case like replacing a dead motherboard in a Dell, HP, etc. Don't let that be an obstacle to getting the OEM version and saving lots of dollars.

 

[cozumel]

Ok Sparky and just to clarify, there is a lot of prejudice againsta Vista and 64-bit by some folks who have gron used to XP. XP was a great OS and was the first MS OS that offered any stability and user-friendliness but now Vista has arrived it has taken it on to a new level. Google the benchmarks and testing from the last six months.

Right back on-topic:

A Q6600 is the minimum CPU you should get for your P35 or X38 based rig. I advise you to consider RAID 0 for speed and 4GB of fast and high quality crucial ballistix or GSKill HZ series RAM. The exact components I would recommend will have to wait until you confirm whether the $1600 includes monitor, keyboard, mouse, case, PSU or even something like joystick depending on the type of games you play.

 

[drum]

Originally posted by: cozumel
Ok Sparky and just to clarify, there is a lot of prejudice againsta Vista and 64-bit by some folks who have gron used to XP. XP was a great OS and was the first MS OS that offered any stability and user-friendliness but now Vista has arrived it has taken it on to a new level. Google the benchmarks and testing from the last six months.

Right back on-topic:

A Q6600 is the minimum CPU you should get for your P35 or X38 based rig. I advise you to consider RAID 0 for speed and 4GB of fast and high quality crucial ballistix or GSKill HZ series RAM. The exact components I would recommend will have to wait until you confirm whether the $1600 includes monitor, keyboard, mouse, case, PSU or even something like joystick depending on the type of games you play.

if you do this please immediately setup a backup routine.
I wouldn't bother with this since you will see negligible performance difference and it definately isn't worth doubling your chance for HDD failure.

 

[Denithor]

For a gaming rig, why jump straight to quad-core?

Personally, I say go with an e2160/e2180/e4500 and OC to 3GHz, run that for the next 8-12 months, then upgrade to a Penryn quad on the cheap. Your choice in video card is more important for gaming performance than the processor you use.

Recommended boards:
DFI P35-T2RL $115 (single x16, raid, no firewire)
abit IP35 Pro $150 after $30MIR (dual x16, raid, firewire)

 

[sparky57]

Originally posted by: cozumel
The exact components I would recommend will have to wait until you confirm whether the $1600 includes monitor, keyboard, mouse, case, PSU or even something like joystick depending on the type of games you play.

The $1600 would just include the case (no monitor, no OS) and everything that goes inside of it (CPU, heat sink, mobo, ram, video card, 1 optical drive, 1 HD, psu, card reader, and no sound card for now).

My plan was to wait for Penryn to come out in mid-Jan, run that for a couple years or so (maybe upgrading to a higher end Penryn chip along the way), and then upgrade (or rather, replace, given I'll need a new mobo) to Nehalem. But given that Penryn's been pushed back now, I don't know what I'll decide. I may still wait and just pray it doesn't get pushed back again.

Right now I'm waiting for release date news from Nvidia re: Geforce 9. I'd like to buy an 8800GTX and then use eVGA to step up after the 9 comes down in price a little.

 

[cozumel]

Ok, I'm sober again lol!!!

Here goes
Intel E2180. I chose this as you said you wanted to wait for the Penryn. The Q6600 will knock the spots of the E2180 but the E2180 offers best bang for buck at the moment, will give you a reasonable performance and will keep you some $$$ in the bank for the Penryn upgrade.

Transcend AxeRAM 2GB (2x1GB kit) PC2-8500. I suggest you get two of the kits for a total of 4GB as current games require 1.5GB-2GB RAM and this will mean you are ready for the future. An unusual choice of RAM but they use high quality Micron chips on a good pcb and offer good value as you'll get an $80 mail-in rebate. Never used Transcend before so maybe someone else with experience of these sticks could provide further comments.

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 Rev 2.0. This is just an excellent board and you should have no problems occupying all four RAM slots. Will accommodate a Penryn.

EVGA 8800GT 512MB. You said about the GTX in your last post and I advise against this. Both the GT and GTS models have a better GPU and other architectural improvements and will offer a similar performance at a lower price. Since you are waiting to see if the 9 series comes out you will have 90 days to 'step up' to the GTS or Ultra models should the 9 series get delayed further.

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB. I am suggesting two of these in a RAID 0 array. These are the new range of Barracudas and offer a nice, quiet and fast performance. WARNING: RAID 0 offers no fault tollerance and I urge you to buy an external backup drive if you do go down this route. Read up on RAID 0 and make a decision based on the information available re pros and cons. If you decide against RAID 0, then consider RAID 0+1 or maybe just the one HDD. Alternatively, you could have one Seagate for Vista x64 and all other documents/data while buying two Western Digital Raptors for the RAID purely for your games. The Raptors are soooo fast but are equally expensive.

Stick all these components inside a Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 case. This is a very large case but will accommodate everything you need for the future and will make it very easy for installation. If you consider the case is too big then look at the Cooler Master RC-690 as an alternative. Whichever case you decide you may want to consider buying some additional Sythe S-Flex 120mm fans as I don't think all the fan bays are filled.

Power everything up with a Silverstone Decathlon DA650 PSU. This PSU will give you more power than you need initially but with the upgrades you are considering it will give you future-proofing. Has excellent reviews. This PSU also has a PCIE 8-pin connector for future GFX cards such as the 9 series and not many PSUs have this.

You will also need a floppy drive, DVD player/s (Blue ray/HD?), CPU cooler and fan (I suggest the Tuniq Tower 120 or Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120) with MX-2 thermal paste.

The total of the parts listed (including 2 kits DDR2 and 2xHDD) is $1,346.91. Deduct the $130 mail-in rebates and that comes to $1,216.91 plus shipping and any relevant tax. This gives you the cash in the kitty for the Penryn and 9 series upgrades next year when they become available.

Please check out all the reviews and user-experience on these components and let me know what you think.

 

[cozumel]

Just remembered about sound. The DS4 does offer good 7.1 HD on-board sound courtesy of Realtek (although personally I don't think as good as my last card). However, I have had very favorable reports back on the Auzentech Prelude 7.1. This sound card has its own on-board memory and in theory should provide a better frame rate when gaming compared to the on-board offered by Realtek. It has a much higher build quality than Creative and uses far better components. I have not tried this card though so have not been able to compare. Check this out on review sites and compare the benchmarks and user comments to see if this would indeed improve your gaming experience. If you do go down the sound card route I do recommend against Creative.

Maybe other Anandtech members have got the Prelude and can give feedback on real-world frame-rates when gaming with the Auzentech?

 

[sparky57]

Wow! Thanks for the exhaustive list of recommended parts! And especially for sobering up before mentioning them! I can just imagine what my system might turn out like otherwise, lol.

I looked up the parts, and have a few questions:

1. Will the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 Rev 2.0 be able to fully support all desktop chips up until Nehalem then? I noticed that its FSB is rated up to 1333MHz... would it still work with 1600MHz FSB chips without any bottlenecks? Also, does it have a lot of OC-able options?

2. Are you primarily recommending the Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 since it's so large, and would be easy for a noob like me to work with? Or perhaps because the next generation of graphics cards will be even larger than the 8800GTX...? Otherwise, it looks like the two cases you mentioned have about the same number of expansion slots, and I would prefer to have a smaller case. They both look great aesthetically though, and seem to provide excellent ventilation.

3. Does the MX-2 thermal paste have any metal in it? Metal scares me... I can just see myself getting the paste on stuff accidentally and causing a short... that's why I was attracted to Tuniq TX-2.

4. Are heat sinks compatible with any CPU that works with the motherboard? I'd hate to have to buy another one for Penryn. Also, are the ones you recommended good enough to support a moderate OC later on?

Thanks for everything, and mentioning the bit about the PSUs PCIE 8-pin connector for future GFX cards... never would have even known to look for that...

 

[cozumel]

1. I believe intel have a new motherboard socket for the Nehalem so you won't be able to use on a P35 board. Maybe with BIOS revisions FSB will go to 1600MHz but I don't really know. Yes, the DS4 has a multitude of options to overclock.

2. It's just that in my experience I am always needing larger cases both for cooling (more space = better airflow typically), bigger components, more space for bigger heatsinks or water-cooling to overclock and also it just makes installation of parts easier due to increased space.

3. There is no metal in the MX-2. The TX-2 is an equally good product and will offer a simlar level of performance.

4. Heatsinks are compatible with specified socket-type. So if you have a 775 compatible heatsink it will work with a Penryn installed on a socket 775. However, technology is always improving so it will probably mean that any heatsink you bu now will be outperformed in six months time. The Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 and Tuniq Tower 120 are currently probably the two best performing right now according to all tests that I have seen. They will (especially if the HS and CPU are both lapped) offer massive ov erclocking potential. IE A lapped 2.4GHz Q6600 will easily get to 3.0 GHZ and probably over 3.5GHz with either of those lapped heatsinks being used with a few changes in the BIOS settings.