New to photography

[mazeroth]

BH Photo has the Canon Rebel XT kit on sale for $445 and they also have the Nikon D40 kit with 2 lenses for $549 after a $100 instant rebate, plus free shipping:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/..._Digital_Rebel_XT.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/...LR_Digital_Camera.html

My wife and I do a lot of things together and we're now talking about taking up photography. To be honest I don't see us getting super deep into the hobby (who knows?) but as it stands I can see us traveling all around to take some great shots and making albums we'll want to keep forever. I'm more of the gadget freak and she's more of a "just use it" type of person. Our 4.1 MP Canon point and shoot takes really great pictures but I want to take it up to the next level. 95% of the shots will be taken outside with, I'm guessing, pretty good lighting. I don't see myself ever spending over $200 for a lens but after a while my thoughts may change.

With that, which kit would you recommend for us? Also, I'm not too adept on what all the lens information means and was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction of a site that can explain everything in detail?

Thank you very much for your time! Oh yeah, and are these deals really that good, or could I wait 2 months and probably find the same thing?

 

[alfa147x]

Is the XTi too far out of budget?
http://slickdeals.net/?permade...0964#direct_deal_10964

Iv have used both XT and XTi and love them both
I would wait 2 months and try getting the XTi

EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

Ef-s : mount type this will only mount to Canons crop sensors but you should be fine with it
18-55mm : Focal length I was not able to understand these #s till I went to the store and picked a lens up and got a feel for how much zoom i was getting...

f/3.5-5.6- This is your aperture, the smaller # the bigger the hole which means more light so you dont need your flash as much... 3.5 when the lens is at 18 and 5.6 when the lens is fully zoomed to 55

hope I got everything

Edit:
I know MP are not too big of a deal (I went from an XTi (10mp) to a canon 30d (8 mp) ) but the d40 only has 6.1 Megapixels kinda low ....

 

[soydios]

8mp versus 6mp is negligible. 10mp versus 6mp only matters if your technique and the lens is good enough to show the difference. ignore resolution as a factor.

allow me to preface my thoughts with the following disclaimer: I use Nikon gear, and thus I am biased in its favor.

with that said, Canon and Nikon are virtually equal under the hood. their lenses, bodies, and flashes are all equally and impressively capable. Nikon's autoexposure metering has always been second to none, though.

in the Canon's favor, it has two more features for your money: more autofocus points, and more pixels. but, at least for my usage, I almost exclusively use the center AF point on my Nikon D50, and 8mp is not a noticeable difference in resolution from 6mp.

in the Nikon's favor, the build is more solid (both are made of plastic, but the Canon feels like it, too), the camera controls and menus are easier and faster to use (why are the power and exposure compensation buttons not adjustable without moving your hand or face from shooting position on all Canon bodies?), and the in-camera help system is a godsend for beginners (confused about a menu selection? hit the help key. the camera will even flash a "?" at you if it thinks you should know something).

I own a D50, which is similar to the D40, and have held a Rebel XT before (though I have never put it through its paces). I have also used both the 18-55mm and 55-200mm lenses that would come in the D40 kit; both will suffice for well-lit daylight photography.

no matter which camera you pick, you'll be producing some stunning images. it's just that, in my opinion, it will be easier to learn with a D40.

 

[soydios]

to answer some questions about lenses:

"f/3.5-5.6"
the first number is the maximum aperture and the wide end of the zoom range, the second number is the maximum aperture at the long end of the zoom range. aperture is pupil size divided by focal length, and is a measure of how much light the lens is focusing onto the sensor. f/1.4 will have a larger aperture and thus gather more light than f/4, and so on. a larger aperture allows for faster shutter speeds to freeze motion, and a shallower depth of field (in-focus area between blurred foreground and background), but the larger aperture requires bigger pieces of glass in the lens, and thus more money, size, and weight.

"EF-S" or "DX"
Canon EF-S is a digital-only mount designed for smaller "APS-C" size sensors. the crop factor for EF-S is 1.6x, so an 18mm lens on EF-S gives the same angle of view as 29mm on full-frame 35mm film. Canon EF lenses are designed for 35mm film and the full-frame sensor of the 1Ds-series, and can also be used on EF-S bodies. the 1D-series uses a 1.3x sensor, but requires the EF lenses. EF-S lenses cannot be used on full-frame or 1.3x-crop bodies, however.
Nikon DX is the same as Canon EF-S. the lenses still use the F-mount (which has been around for about forty years), but make a smaller image circle, good for the APS-C 1.5x-crop sensors in most Nikon DSLRs. all Nikkor lenses ever made (DX or full-frame) can be mounted on all Nikon DSLRs (a DX lens on the new full-frame D3 takes pictures at lower resolution, but still works). I've taken stunning pictures with a 35-year-old 50mm f/1.4 on my D50, because all the geometry is the same (Canon changed to the EOS mount twenty years ago for autofocus).

"USM" or "AF-S"
on lower-budget lenses like the ones you are considering, these autofocus mechanisms are no faster than regular autofocus, but they are noticeably quieter.
a note about the D40: it will only autofocus with AF-S lenses, which have the autofocus motor inside the lens. sadly, this means that such gems as the the 50mm f/1.8D and all the millions of AF-Nikkor lenses in the world will not autofocus on the D40. Canon does not have this problem, as all their lenses have internal motors, but they had to give up compatibility with older manual-focus lenses to get this when they changed to the EOS mount.

"IS" or "VR"
stands for Image Stabilization and Vibration Reduction, respectively. both work the same way: they move optics inside the lens to cancel out moderate camera shake. in practice, it works wonders, and allows you to hand-hold at much longer exposures. it does not stop subject motion, however. systems from both companies are equally effective, but Nikon's auto-detects panning motion, while Canon still has not implemented it.

you can safely ignore any acronyms you might find other than the ones I listed above.

 

[dug777]

I've played with a 400D and a D40 (my bro's), and much preferred the D40 as far as ergonomics and use were concerned (not sure how different the 350D was?)...

I suspect they'll both let you take almost identical pictures, so just have a play with both in the shop and see which you like the feel of most...

That D40 kit also gives you an ok (18-55mm) and quite reasonable lens (55-200mm) covering a very useful range, while the 18-55mm Canon kit lens is pretty meh in all respects

 

[PowerRanger]

If my choices were ONLY between those two, I would go with the Canon, because the Nikon D40 does not have an autofocus motor built in. Like soydios said, this means it can only use AF-S lenses, and great & cheap AF lenses such as the 50mm f1.8 would not have autofocus on that body. You might think, OK, I'm just starting, blah blah, this probably won't really affect me. But my friend, who has a D40 and is still only just learning the basics of PHOTOGRAPHY (not just dSLRs) is feeling this limitation of the D40. If you want to stick with the Nikon system, and is on limited budget, I'd suggest maybe looking for a used D50 that's in good condition with lowish shutter count. I personally have a D50 and its a great camera for learning and advancing on. But choosing the Canon system is equally great. So as I said, if you're only choosing between those two, I would suggest the XTi.

 

[rudder]

You would be hard pressed to see two pictures taken from either camera and tell them apart.

Best thing would be to visit a local store and hold one and see how it feels in your hands. Also see if you like the menu system, controls, etc.

Personally, I went with a Canon DSLR because looking at the used equipment forums I saw a lot more used lenses for sale that were EF lenses. And not sure what the nikon equivalent is... but Canon now has the $180 17-55 IS lens which is getting great reviews for the price.

Another thing about Canon is I like the controls. I own a 30D and love the thumb wheel on the back. OF course the XTi is a little different taking a few more button pushes to change the ISO for instance.

 

[alfa147x]

Originally posted by: rudder
You would be hard pressed to see two pictures taken from either camera and tell them apart.

Best thing would be to visit a local store and hold one and see how it feels in your hands. Also see if you like the menu system, controls, etc.

Personally, I went with a Canon DSLR because looking at the used equipment forums I saw a lot more used lenses for sale that were EF lenses. And not sure what the nikon equivalent is... but Canon now has the $180 17-55 IS lens which is getting great reviews for the price.

Another thing about Canon is I like the controls. I own a 30D and love the thumb wheel on the back. OF course the XTi is a little different taking a few more button pushes to change the ISO for instance.

The buttons issue is not that big of a deal at least for me
But i did enjoy it when i upgraded from the XTi to the 30d

 

[soydios]

Originally posted by: rudder
You would be hard pressed to see two pictures taken from either camera and tell them apart.

Best thing would be to visit a local store and hold one and see how it feels in your hands. Also see if you like the menu system, controls, etc.

Personally, I went with a Canon DSLR because looking at the used equipment forums I saw a lot more used lenses for sale that were EF lenses. And not sure what the nikon equivalent is... but Canon now has the $180 17-55 IS lens which is getting great reviews for the price.

Another thing about Canon is I like the controls. I own a 30D and love the thumb wheel on the back. OF course the XTi is a little different taking a few more button pushes to change the ISO for instance.

Nikon has very straightforward controls, IMO. Pentax brings some interesting control schemes to the table. Nikon also has the most used lenses available of any manufacturer, thanks to the fact that 35-year-old F-mount lenses still work (personally tested). The D40 is lacking in AF compatibility, which is saddening to me as a D50 owner.

 

[Neos]

You may have already bought for Christmas. If so, this might be a good tip for others, especially those noobies that are just getting their first DSLR.
Please forgive my boldness in recommending a brand you did not mention, but be sure and check out the E410 and E510 from Olympus.

Pluses.
Best kit lenses ...period.
410 is the smallest and lightest DSLR there is. 510 is second, even lighter than the D40 from Nikon.
Made for digital from the ground up.
A dustbuster that works. They invented it. Others are following with copies, but tests have shown the Oly really works. All the others work from somewhat to poorly.
Live view. Oly also brought this out 1st.
Built in IS in the 510. Makes a real difference for hand held shots.
As good as any, better than most - quality and feel.

Minuses.
There are minuses in every brand, but the Oly has way more pluses to consider than any minuses they might have - which if there - are trivial.
Both the 410 & 510 were Highly Recommended by dpreview.com.

 

[alfa147x]

so what did u get?

 

[touchmyichi]

I would get a used 20D on craigslist, really good value. They can be found for under 500 now, which is exceptional considering they are practically identical to the 30D's.

 

[tfinch2]

Olympus E-510 hands down.

 

[RedWolf]

I was in the same boat about two months ago. I spent two months doing research and testing cameras in multiple stores. I chose the Olympus e-510. I am very very happy with it. The ergonomics are great (all the necessary buttons are easily accessed). The kit lenses are better than the D40x/XTI. The initial setup gets you two lenses for the same price as one XTI/D40x. The live view lcd is quite useful even though it isn't articulated. I can use my old minolta lenses (although IS and auto-focus don't work).

I do have two issues with it. First, there is no focus assist lamp. The camera uses the flash for focus assist. That can cause issues with taking photos of people in the dark as the flash is quite bright. The initial setting has it strobe the flash and that simply doesn't work (think of looking at a very bright strobe light). The canon and nikon use an invisible focus assist lamp so it doesn't blind people.

The second issue is focus speed. With only 3 focus points it will occassionally have issues focusing. This has only been an issue focusing with fast moving objects in lower light conditions. The D40x also has only 3 points so I don't think it would do any better. The Canon has 9 (iirc) so I think it would be a little better for sports photography.

Each system has it's compromises. The canon's ergonomics are not as good as the Nikon or Olympus. The Nikon has issues with compatibility with older lenses. Overall, I decided the E-510 had the fewest compromises and the most extra benefits (IS, live view, great kit lenses, dust cleaner, 10 megapixels, good high iso output) and went with it. I've been very happy with my choice.

 

[erichK]

based on my experience over several decades of photography, I'd definitely choose the Nikon offerings over the Canon. But have you taken a good look at the Olympus 510? It offers Live View and image stabilization, a 10MP sensopr and a couple of kit lenses that are supposed to be really good in a lightweight kit for a few dollars more.

 

[daveshel]

I have owned and loved Canon 35mm SLRs since the 70s, On the other hand, my experience with Canon consumer products in recent years has been less satisfying. I have to wonder at this point if the quality of a Canon DSLR will be more like that of a recent scanner or printer than the quality of my old A-1. Nice to consider alternatives, and the dpreview of the 510 makes it sound like a viable alternative indeed.

 

[Cstefan]

K100d super from pentax IMO.

 

[RedWolf]

The K100d super is a great camera. Unfortunately, the buffer fills up quickly. If you aren't going to be shooting a lot of pictures in continuous mode it's a very good choice.

 

[Cstefan]

Really? I was able to capture to my hearts content while I was on my vacation. It paused a few times but meh it's not a k10d. Wait for the new ones.. I been hearing things. And non stop continuous drive was one of them.

 

[KaChow]

I have both Nikon's and Canon's, DSLR's, P&S, and film. I personally prefer the Nikon DSLR's for the ergonomics, flash, and metering system. I prefer the Canon's for the better selection of great lenses and lower cost.

Having said that, If I wanted a DSLR solution with minimal pain I'd get a Nikon D40/D40x, the 18-200 VR lens and maybe an SB600 flash and never buy anything else ever again (unless you REALLY get into it!).

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: soydios

Nikon has very straightforward controls, IMO. Pentax brings some interesting control schemes to the table. Nikon also has the most used lenses available of any manufacturer, thanks to the fact that 35-year-old F-mount lenses still work (personally tested). The D40 is lacking in AF compatibility, which is saddening to me as a D50 owner.

careful, old lenses may damage new nikons (according to nikon)

Originally posted by: Neos
Both the 410 & 510 were Highly Recommended by dpreview.com.

what isn't? :evil:

(the k10d. seems like phil hates the default jpeg output on the k10d, which can be changed to look like the k100d, a camera he liked. it bothers me that he will test non-default setting on the olympii but not on the pentax)

in all seriousness, i love the E-410 and i'm looking forward to the E-420 where oly ditches xD and CF for SD and a larger battery and fixes the placement of the righthand strap lug. i know, it'll never happen.

 

[jpeyton]

As an owner of both 6MP and 10MP Nikon DSLRs, I can tell you that 6MP is the sweet spot for DX format sensors. The increase from 6MP to 10MP doesn't result in any increase in perceived sharpness or detail. The only advantage to having the extra resolution is if you need to do some deep cropping because of poor shot composition.

 

[punchkin]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
As an owner of both 6MP and 10MP Nikon DSLRs, I can tell you that 6MP is the sweet spot for DX format sensors. The increase from 6MP to 10MP doesn't result in any increase in perceived sharpness or detail. The only advantage to having the extra resolution is if you need to do some deep cropping because of poor shot composition.

This is true if you like small pictures or use crappy lenses, false otherwise.