New to High-End PC Audio - Advice?

[Eightthree]

I recently updated my computer and wanted to start getting more serious about my Audio. I mostly game on this computer, along with Skype and the usual suspects. My budget is essentially unlimited. My goal is :

- A very nice headset, mostly for gaming. I was thinking this :

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003DA4D2U/ref=asc_df_B003DA4D2U1808081?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ta g=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B003D A4D2U

- A good sound card, I was thinking one of these :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829271004

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829271003

- A set of really nice 2.0 speakers. These will mostly be used for music, Skype and listening to games when I do not want to use a headset. A caveat here, is I have a monster 30" monitor (HP Z230w) so I have about 6-8" on each side of the monitor to spare. I thought about 2.1, but I don't really even turn the subwoofer up on my current system very much.

I want these be able to switch from the headset to the speakers effortlessly, like I have right now with my current headset and speakers. Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[JAG87]

Okay, unlimited budget, I like this.

Don't buy a sound card. Buy an external DAC with USB input. Even a cheap one will outclass any sound card because it's not subject to EMI.

For headphones, personally I wouldn't buy anything besides a custom in ear monitor from Westone or JH Audio. I've come to realize that pretty much anything else is a waste of money because a custom IEM is the best sound quality you will get, it's portable, and it's low impedance so you don't need amplification. You can get good entry level customs in the $400-500 range, but the best over $1K. If you feel that this is not for you, the best headphone I've heard to date is the Denon AH-D7000. It can be bought for less than $1K.

As far as speakers, it becomes a bit trickier. A nice setup would be an integrated amp with a USB input (which eliminates the need for a DAC) and some high end speakers.

Here's a good website to read about integrated amps with USB input.
The PeachTree Decco is one of the more popular ones.
http://www.sonicflare.com/archives/integrated-amp-under-1k.php

For speakers nobody can pick except you, you have to go audition and choose for yourself. Look for high end bookshelf speakers to fit your narrow 6-8" space. Something like the B&W CM1. Of course with the integrated amp you are now looking at a $2000 budget.

If that's too much, the next thing I would look at is a pair of active studio monitors from Genelec, Mackie, Focal, M-Audio, that you can connect to your external DAC with plain RCA cables without needing an amplifier. These can be had cheaper and you should be able to easily find one that fits in your space. You can usually find these in music instrument stores so go audition some of them.

That's it, that's high end PC audio. Everything else is garbage dressed with a brand name like Logitech or Creative.

 

[Eightthree]

Okay, unlimited budget, I like this.

Don't buy a sound card. Buy an external DAC with USB input. Even a cheap one will outclass any sound card because it's not subject to EMI.

For headphones, personally I wouldn't buy anything besides a custom in ear monitor from Westone or JH Audio. I've come to realize that pretty much anything else is a waste of money because a custom IEM is the best sound quality you will get, it's portable, and it's low impedance so you don't need amplification. You can get good entry level customs in the $400-500 range, but the best over $1K. If you feel that this is not for you, the best headphone I've heard to date is the Denon AH-D7000. It can be bought for less than $1K.

As far as speakers, it becomes a bit trickier. A nice setup would be an integrated amp with a USB input (which eliminates the need for a DAC) and some high end speakers.

Here's a good website to read about integrated amps with USB input.
The PeachTree Decco is one of the more popular ones.
http://www.sonicflare.com/archives/integrated-amp-under-1k.php

For speakers nobody can pick except you, you have to go audition and choose for yourself. Look for high end bookshelf speakers to fit your narrow 6-8" space. Something like the B&W CM1. Of course with the integrated amp you are now looking at a $2000 budget.

If that's too much, the next thing I would look at is a pair of active studio monitors from Genelec, Mackie, Focal, M-Audio, that you can connect to your external DAC with plain RCA cables without needing an amplifier. These can be had cheaper and you should be able to easily find one that fits in your space. You can usually find these in music instrument stores so go audition some of them.

That's it, that's high end PC audio. Everything else is garbage dressed with a brand name like Logitech or Creative.

Thank you for the detailed response! The only question I have is about the headset, I would need a microphone, but I imagine getting a seperate one, might be as good as an integrated.

 

[Howard]

Thank you for the detailed response! The only question I have is about the headset, I would need a microphone, but I imagine getting a seperate one, might be as good as an integrated.

The more you compromise, the less perfect you can get. Consider getting a mic stand with a discrete microphone and a mic preamp.

A shotgun mic would likely be ideal so as not to pick up sound from the speakers.

 

[scootermaster]

I recently updated my computer and wanted to start getting more serious about my Audio. I mostly game on this computer, along with Skype and the usual suspects. My budget is essentially unlimited. My goal is :

- A very nice headset, mostly for gaming. I was thinking this :

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003DA4D2U/ref=asc_df_B003DA4D2U1808081?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ta g=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B003D A4D2U

- A good sound card, I was thinking one of these :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829271004

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829271003

- A set of really nice 2.0 speakers. These will mostly be used for music, Skype and listening to games when I do not want to use a headset. A caveat here, is I have a monster 30" monitor (HP Z230w) so I have about 6-8" on each side of the monitor to spare. I thought about 2.1, but I don't really even turn the subwoofer up on my current system very much.

I want these be able to switch from the headset to the speakers effortlessly, like I have right now with my current headset and speakers. Thank you in advance for your help!

I'm getting a pair of these shipped to my grubby paws in the next couple of days: http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?products_id=65

I don't know if they're too big for your set up, but you have a similar situation as me (needing a set for pretty much just music). I'll let you know how they work.

And I'll also follow this, as I'm tempted to get an integrated amp as well, but for now will be using a spare receiver I have.

(There's a thread a couple of posts down all about me making my computer/music based 2.0/2.1 set up)

 

[biostud]

I have a a very good setup (see sig), the amp is old, so you should get another integrated amp, but both the DacMagic and the Dali speakers are very good. A new DacMagic+ is going to be released soon. You can see it on cambridge audio homepage, it also has a volume wheel and headphone out.

 

[JAG87]

Thank you for the detailed response! The only question I have is about the headset, I would need a microphone, but I imagine getting a seperate one, might be as good as an integrated.

Yes of course you would need an external mic. A $20 USB desktop mic from Logitech will do you fine for gaming, and you won't have to deal with fussy audio drivers for your motherboard.

http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/webcam-communications/microphones/devices/221

What Howard suggested is a bit extreme, unless you are planning to record your voice for music? If you all do is Skype/Vent/TeamSpeak, this is enough.

If you do choose to buy a stand alone DAC (not an integrated amp), don't go crazy with money. Anything over $50 sounds exactly the same and the differences can only be seen with an oscilloscope. There is no audible difference, only placebo. If you're thinking of buying a $500 standalone DAC, take the extra $450 and throw them into the speakers/headphones, where it actually makes a huge difference.

 

[Eightthree]

@ JAG87

That got me thinking, I do have a Logitech C910 Webcam with a mike. That should do it for a microphone, leaving just speakers and the headset. I'm going to check out your suggestions as well.

@ scootermaster

Those look like nice speakers, but the dimensions are too big, with my monitor I only have 6-8" to spare.

 

[Howard]

What Howard suggested is a bit extreme

He did say his budget was essentially unlimited.

 

[Chapbass]

@ JAG87

That got me thinking, I do have a Logitech C910 Webcam with a mike. That should do it for a microphone, leaving just speakers and the headset. I'm going to check out your suggestions as well.

@ scootermaster

Those look like nice speakers, but the dimensions are too big, with my monitor I only have 6-8" to spare.

If you need a spare mic, I 2nd the idea of getting the logitech USB desktop mic. I've used two of them (one for me, one for GF) for various things like skype, ventrilo, mumble, teamspeak, etc, and they have all sounded great with it.

I use it in a similar setup (not as extreme), using the desktop mic, Fiio E7 plugged into a Fiio E9, powering a pair of Sennheiser HD650's.

Not as high end of a setup, but the idea is the same and it works great.

 

[kornphlake]

If you do choose to buy a stand alone DAC (not an integrated amp), don't go crazy with money. Anything over $50 sounds exactly the same and the differences can only be seen with an oscilloscope. There is no audible difference, only placebo. If you're thinking of buying a $500 standalone DAC, take the extra $450 and throw them into the speakers/headphones, where it actually makes a huge difference.

Is this your opinion or a fact? I agree that the money is better spent on speakers or even a better amp, but I disagree that you'll never hear any difference between DACs. The differences may be extremely subtle, so subtle they may not be audible with less than high end speakers. Yeah I know that's a little bit of a cop out, but building a sound system with a high end dac and average or worse speakers is like building a Pentium 2 with 12gb of RAM and expecting it to run Windows 7.

A good sounding system will consist of average or better speakers, average or better amp and an average or better source, any component that performs below average can become a bottleneck in performance.

 

[Howard]

Is this your opinion or a fact? I agree that the money is better spent on speakers or even a better amp, but I disagree that you'll never hear any difference between DACs. The differences may be extremely subtle, so subtle they may not be audible with less than high end speakers. Yeah I know that's a little bit of a cop out, but building a sound system with a high end dac and average or worse speakers is like building a Pentium 2 with 12gb of RAM and expecting it to run Windows 7.

A good sounding system will consist of average or better speakers, average or better amp and an average or better source, any component that performs below average can become a bottleneck in performance.

Food for thought: http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm

Still, I'd love to have one of these: http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac1-usb

 

[JAG87]

Is this your opinion or a fact? I agree that the money is better spent on speakers or even a better amp, but I disagree that you'll never hear any difference between DACs. The differences may be extremely subtle, so subtle they may not be audible with less than high end speakers. Yeah I know that's a little bit of a cop out, but building a sound system with a high end dac and average or worse speakers is like building a Pentium 2 with 12gb of RAM and expecting it to run Windows 7.

A good sounding system will consist of average or better speakers, average or better amp and an average or better source, any component that performs below average can become a bottleneck in performance.

It is of course my opinion, nothing that is perceived by our senses can be claimed as a fact. The differences aren't subtle that you don't need high end speakers, you need an oscilloscope.

If you feed 120V first and 121V next into a light bulb, could you tell the difference? That's the dac's job.

If you feed 50W first and 100W next into a light bulb, could you tell the difference? That's the amp's job.

If you feed 100W into a regular incandescent bulb and then into a fluorescent light bulb that makes 3 times as much light with a more neutral color, could you tell the difference? That's the speaker.

Food for thought: http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm

Still, I'd love to have one of these: http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac1-usb

The only reason to buy one of those is this, and that's what you're paying for:

The DAC1 and DAC1 USB feature the HPA2™ - Benchmark's signature high-current, 0-Ohm headphone amplifier. The HPA2™ is arguably the ultimate reference headphone amplifier. It will deliver the full rated performance of the DAC1 and DAC1 USB to the headphones. The HPA2™ maintains less than 0.0003% THD+N under full load. The DAC1 and the DAC1 USB both have two 1/4" headphone jacks on the front panel. The performance of the HPA2™ remains consistent even when two headphones are being driven simultaneously.

 

[Thump553]

Logitech Squeezebox - the most useful (and used) piece of audio equipment I've ever gotten in forty plus years of interest in audio. Basically it attaches to your home audio system and acts to stream music from your computer (or the internet). I now rip any CD I get to FLAC files on the computer, then basically put the CD in storage forever.

Take a look at the FAQs pinned here for general advice. I'm a firm believer in the most bang for your buck is the speakers (and/or headphones) you choose-the other components quality does make a difference, but it's really hair splitting as compared to the quality of the speakers you choose.

 

[Howard]

It is of course my opinion, nothing that is perceived by our senses can be claimed as a fact.

There are many stimuli that result in common perceptions. For example, it is known that speakers with smooth polar response are preferred to speakers with polar response that is non-linear or peaky.

EDIT: And of course, flat direct response is preferred to non-flat direct response.

 

[uhohs]

the headphone amp in the benchmark isn't very high-end or expensive in parts cost and is unsuitable for more demanding/difficult to drive headphones.

 

[biostud]

As with all systems it has to be balanced. When I upgraded my system recently these were my findings:

1st: recording quality on my system I could tell a difference between 192kpbs mp3 and 256kbps AAC, but I doubt I would be able to differ between 256kbps AAC and FLAC.

2nd: I could clearly hear a difference between onboard audio and my DAC, but probably no reason to buy one more expensive for my ears.

3rd: Speakers, going from two floor standing 3-ways (1" + 5" + 2x10") to two shelf speakers (1,1"+4,5") was the greatest difference, but without investing in the DAC and better source quality, the speakers would not perform the best, and why invest in $1200 in speakers, if not to get the best quality?

 

[Anarchist420]

As with all systems it has to be balanced. When I upgraded my system recently these were my findings:

1st: recording quality on my system I could tell a difference between 192kpbs mp3 and 256kbps AAC, but I doubt I would be able to differ between 256kbps AAC and FLAC.

2nd: I could clearly hear a difference between onboard audio and my DAC, but probably no reason to buy one more expensive for my ears.

3rd: Speakers, going from two floor standing 3-ways (1" + 5" + 2x10") to two shelf speakers (1,1"+4,5") was the greatest difference, but without investing in the DAC and better source quality, the speakers would not perform the best, and why invest in $1200 in speakers, if not to get the best quality?

Listening to Frou Frou's "Let Go" there is a huge difference between an AAC file and FLAC and my Behringer MS20s are a lot worse than anything you could be using with your DacMagic. I don't listen to a whole lot of music, but having a lossless file format is generally the most important factor to me (more so than headphones/speakers, DAC, and amplifier).

I recently updated my computer and wanted to start getting more serious about my Audio. I mostly game on this computer, along with Skype and the usual suspects. My budget is essentially unlimited. My goal is :

- A very nice headset, mostly for gaming. I was thinking this :

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003DA4D2U/ref=asc_df_B003DA4D2U1808081?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ta g=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B003D A4D2U

- A good sound card, I was thinking one of these :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829271004

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829271003

- A set of really nice 2.0 speakers. These will mostly be used for music, Skype and listening to games when I do not want to use a headset. A caveat here, is I have a monster 30" monitor (HP Z230w) so I have about 6-8" on each side of the monitor to spare. I thought about 2.1, but I don't really even turn the subwoofer up on my current system very much.

I want these be able to switch from the headset to the speakers effortlessly, like I have right now with my current headset and speakers. Thank you in advance for your help!

I'd recommend the Asus Essence One. It's gotten excellent reviews and it's probably better than something that costs 2.5x more. It seems like they're in short supply, which is understandable considering the components it uses.

 

[alcoholbob]

If your hobby is just the pursuit of "hifi," then the question isn't just whether or not you can hear the difference (since "high quality" itself has it's own inherent value), I think the more fundamental question should be, is the product you bought even measurably better than something that's half or less the price (in other words, is it even high quality at all?)

Some of these boutique items, you open up the fancy box and it's nothing more than average off-the-shelf parts (or worse). You may notice a lot of these high end brands will never put their products for review by a publication that measures performance in a lab. Some of the ones that do get exposed.

 

[vbuggy]

FYI I posted a shopping list in your other thread.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32678727&postcount=6