New to AMDx2 overclocking - Updated alot so please look

Hacka

Senior member
Feb 20, 2006
248
0
0
Hey guys... im noob when it comes to HTT and all that crap.. im used to overclocking my 2400+ mobile LOL... Can you guys help me out? I will provide screenshots and test results frequently.


below i have bolded and highlighted my questions and i will do more as i progress :)

thanks for helping me lol

oh.. btw heres my specs
amd 5400+ x2
gigabyte m61p-s3 mobo
z3 cpu cooler
2 gigs of gskill 5-5-5-15
ati x1800xt
Heres a pic :)
http://i16.tinypic.com/4lh6law.jpg

this is a quick and dirty guide. I am aiming for simplicity since it's not all that complicated to OC A64's even for first timers. I am also aiming for safty so you don't kill anything so lower volts are advocated. Just good clean fun to get an FX or better from your budget chip.

VERY IMPORTANT to keep in mind at all times is hypertransport needs to be around 1000, meaning LDT x HTT (aka FSB) ~1000 or less.
What exactly does this mean?

Now we will Isolate then Consolidate.

What that means is you need to test three parts of the CPU subsystem (chipset, chip, and memory) to find max speeds of each.. Then combine them for some sort of optimal overclock.

ISOLATE
Don't forget to take notes.

1. Max HTT/FSB should be first ..*only works if motherboard has locks. Locks? Most A64 boards do today. Sata 1 and 2 are not locked on some nforce mobos use 3 and 4.
-set CPU multi to 6 or 7, this will take CPU out of equation
-set memory to SPD and 100, this will take memory out of equation
-Increase HTT/FSB up until you fail to boot or there abouts, back down 5%, (HTT * 0.95), this is your max safe HTT.

Ok so i will lower the cpu multiplier and raise the fsb to the max... i would like to know more about the voltages to use because my cpu crashed the first time i raised the fsb without raising the vcore.

2. Max Chip capable
- Set multiplier to it's maxium Do i lower the fsb first? Wont this crash it?
-Set vcore to 1.6 -1.65 for 130nm chips, 1.50-1.55 for 90nm chips
-Set mem to SPD and 100, this will take memory out of equation
-starting with HTT 200 raise in about 5Mhz increments up to boards max found earlier or until you start failing PRIME95 which will probably happen first..only give it 5 minutes max, that's good enough for now.
-At the point it starts failing within that 5 min time period, back down 5%, (CPU MHZ * 0.95), thats your max CPU speed, now test prime again at 95% for 12 hour for stable.
Prime 95 Link http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

3. Memory MAX

It depends what you want and type of mem you chose, LL or Bandwidth but must keep 1T (command rate) because A64 suffers big time with 2T.

-For high bandwidth set mem setting to 200 and 2.5-4-3-7 1 T and give it boards max volts, or for LL set mem setting to 200 and 2-2-2-7 1 T and give it boards max volts. (up to 2.9Vdimm is safe with all ram) ( Caution DFI/ABIT users -- do not exceed 3.0V unless you know what you are doing!!!)
-Set CPUs multi to 6-7, again to take it out of equation.
-Raise HTT up to boards max or until you start failing memtest86 test 5 and 6 http://www.memtest86.com/
-When you start failing memtest86 test 5 and 6, back down 5%, (HTT * 0.95), thats your max MEM speed.

CONSOLIDATE

The most important thing to keep in mind is CPU Speed is king. So now that you know your CPU speed from above, use it. Say it's Winchester 3000 and it's 2650Mhz prime stable and with it's 9 multiplier it needs 295 HTT to get there (9x295=2650)...NP right, but you got some value ram which only clocked to 210Mhz from your above testing. Well obviously you can't run the ram at 1:1 which would be 295Mhz, you must use a mem divider. You can use the memory divider (mem setting) to get as close as possible to your mem max found above.

This is the rough way to calculate IE close enough..

Memsetting setting
200 = HTT Mhz
183 = HTT x .90 = Mhz
166 = HTT x .83 = Mhz
150 = HTT x .75 = Mhz
133 = HTT x .66 = Mhz
100 = HTT x .50 = Mhz

What can my 210Mhz memory run in this config?
295 x .83 = 244 = not a chance
295 x .75 = 221 = not quite
295 x .66 = 195 Yes, but slow.

You have two choices, try and tighen timings and run 195 which is perfectly OK choice. Or Change CPU multiplier and start over. Ideally you want for max CPU and memory to coinside...Does'nt always work the way you want... My Ballistix below is 245Mhz stable but I'm running less for more CPU speed which always wins. You should too.


To help you along in the "consolidate" phase user Gogar has made a niffty script found here.
Just put in those maximuns found under the "isolate" phase and it will spit out the best choices.

After you go though these steps , take notes, you'll become more familiar with the whole tweaking process (learn by doing) and will be able to dial in better frequencies, timings, voltages, and faster too. But this should get you pretty close to safe and optimal speeds
 

Hacka

Senior member
Feb 20, 2006
248
0
0
wow the highlighted parts are white... goodjob

i fixed it so they are just bold... :)
 

Hacka

Senior member
Feb 20, 2006
248
0
0
heres the latest cpu-z report
i dont know if i did it right... it gave me a nasty beep when i booted.. like something was wrong.

CPU(s)
Number of CPUs 2
CPU#1 APIC ID = 0
Name AMD Athlon 64 FX-53
Code Name
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5400+
Family / Model / Stepping F 3 3
Extended Family / Model F 43
Brand ID 36
Supported Instructions Sets MMX, Extended MMX, 3DNow!, Extended 3DNow!, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
CPU Clock Speed 1496.4 MHz
Clock multiplier x 6.0
HTT Bus Frequency 249.4 MHz


why does it say fx-53?
 

f4phantom2500

Platinum Member
Dec 3, 2006
2,284
1
0
alright man slow down a sec lol. what it means about keeping the hypertransport around 1000 is this. the hypertransport speed is determined by the fsb and the htt multiplier (default is 5x). since the default fsb is 200, the default hypertransport is 1000MHz. if you increase the FSB to 250, you have to lower the htt multi to 4 to keep it at 1000. 333x3=999...obviously you won't be able to keep it at 1000 all the time, depending on the clock speed, but adjust the multi so that it's as close to 1000 as possible, whether it's a bit over or under won't matter, but just make sure it's as close to 1000 as possible. if you don't it could mean instability and crashing, etc.

the part about locks is referring to functions that lock the pci, sata, and other bus speeds. since the fsb relates to the entire system, if your motherboard doesn't have these locks you'll have to adjust them manually as you raise the fsb. otherwise they'll overclock, which doesn't provide any benefit, and will most likely cause stability problems if you go too high on the fsb. yours probably does, but you'll have to check the manual or something.

the part about setting the cpu multi to the max then increasing the fsb will eventually cause instability, but that's the point; to find the chip's limit.

 

f4phantom2500

Platinum Member
Dec 3, 2006
2,284
1
0
there must be more settings...take pics of more of the screens.

edit: oh for now you should put it all back at stock, because having your ht run at 1250 is NOT good.

if there really isn't a way to change the htt multi, then it looks like you're pretty limited on your overclock by that. see if there is a newer bios revision you can download.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
look at all of your bios screens. most boards give you the ability to mess with the ht multiplier. mine defaults at 5 and can be changed to 4, 3, etc.
 

f4phantom2500

Platinum Member
Dec 3, 2006
2,284
1
0
idk if gigabyte has an updater that you can use from within windows (like msi's liveupdate). take pics of more of the bios screens and post them.
 

BadBrad

Member
Aug 30, 2000
195
0
71
Hacka, don't get all upset quite yet as you have one of the best kept secrets for a low cost overclocking MB. There is a hidden BIOS screen that is activated by pressing CNTL + F1 at the initial BIOS menu screen. This will give you an additional screen where you can select the HTT multiplier.

-First off, you should realize that you have a relatively high-end CPU already and will probably not get too much in the way of overclock. maybe somewhere in the range of 2.95 - 3.1Ghz.

-Since the 5400+ default multiplier is 14 yo do not have to increase the FSB that much to get above 3.0Ghz. I would suggest that you use the default multi and back off the HTT to 733 and the bump up the FSB in small increments until you get instability then back off a small margin and test with the Orthos application.

-This is assuming that your RAM is DDR2 800 and not DDR2 667.

Hope this helps....good luck and keep us posted.
 

BadBrad

Member
Aug 30, 2000
195
0
71
BTW, I forgot to mention that the GA-M61P-S3 comes with a great utility on the CD to test the overclocking of you system from within Windows. It's called Easy Tune 5. I used it on both the GA-M61P-S3 and my other system that is based on the GA-K8NSC-939 with a San Diego 3700+ running @ 2.8Ghz.
 

Hacka

Senior member
Feb 20, 2006
248
0
0
ok thanks.. give me some time to check all this stuff out and get some time to read all this lol..

hopefully you will help me if i have any more questions :)
right now im working lol.. i got like 10+ computers to fix today :( basic power supply problems and virus crap.. i own a computer repair shop haha :p
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
brad, that's a strong oc. I have an x2 3600+ brisbane at 2251. Of course, it's in a dell...it's amazing how fast this computer is when compared to the crap that I'm used to having at work.
 

BadBrad

Member
Aug 30, 2000
195
0
71
Brian,
The brisbane 3600+, especially the OEM version, is a mad overclocker. But because it's default multiplier is 9.5 the key to a good overclock is to lower the RAM divider sufficiently to allow the RAM to operate near it's maximum speed after you increase the FSB while not going over the HT BUS limit of 1000Mhz(2000Mhz effective). That's where a good OC MB comes into play. The beauty of the GA-M61P-S3 is that it is a GeForce 6100 based unit that has decent imbedded graphics that allow a stepped approach to upgrading your system. My initial investment a couple of months ago was less than $200 delivered for MB+RAM+CPU @ the Egg.
 

BadBrad

Member
Aug 30, 2000
195
0
71
Hacka,

IMHO, there will be very little performance difference as a result of larger cache between the 3600+ @ 3.0Ghz and the 6000+ @ 3.0Ghz. If you run benchmarks you may see something but for real world apps I doubt you'll notice anything. BTW the 6000+ is a windsor core the uses 125 Watts at load and runs very hot, maybe even more than 60 degC. Whereas the 3600+ is the latest AMD core that only uses 65 Watts at load @ about 50 degC.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
I couldn't change any bios settings (crappy dell!). I had to use clockgen to oc it at all. Do you know a way to unlock the bios settings? I know that this baby will do a lot more than 2251!
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
how does the 65w factor in when you get a 50+% overclock? doesn't it go up to 97.5w+ at that point?
 

Smartazz

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2005
6,128
0
76
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
how does the 65w factor in when you get a 50+% overclock? doesn't it go up to 97.5w+ at that point?

Yeah, assuming you keep the same voltage which would be impossible at 1.2v or almost impossible at least.
 

Hacka

Senior member
Feb 20, 2006
248
0
0
Originally posted by: BadBrad
Hacka, don't get all upset quite yet as you have one of the best kept secrets for a low cost overclocking MB. There is a hidden BIOS screen that is activated by pressing CNTL + F1 at the initial BIOS menu screen. This will give you an additional screen where you can select the HTT multiplier.

-First off, you should realize that you have a relatively high-end CPU already and will probably not get too much in the way of overclock. maybe somewhere in the range of 2.95 - 3.1Ghz.

-Since the 5400+ default multiplier is 14 yo do not have to increase the FSB that much to get above 3.0Ghz. I would suggest that you use the default multi and back off the HTT to 733 and the bump up the FSB in small increments until you get instability then back off a small margin and test with the Orthos application.

-This is assuming that your RAM is DDR2 800 and not DDR2 667.

Hope this helps....good luck and keep us posted.


ok so i finally got some time to read this... i can hit 3.0 even 3.2 easy without messing with that adv option menu.

since you have the same motherboard as me.. could you explain what i should do? i dont understand when you said "I would suggest that you use the default multi and back off the HTT to 733" i thought htt was the same as fsb kinda lol

 

BadBrad

Member
Aug 30, 2000
195
0
71
Hacka,

For starters you're not hitting 3.0-3.2. The fastest your running according to your screenshots is 250x6=1500 or 1.5Ghz. That's a little above half of the CPU's rated speed. so you're greatly underclocked.

Class is therefore in session for basic AM2 overclocking:

First, CPU frequency is really system master clock speed. Both the CPU and memory as well as other components get their driving signal from this frequency.

Second, CPU speed = CPU frequency x CPU clock ratio. The ultimate goal is to get the max stable CPU frequency that when multiplied by 14 equals something greater than your CPU's default speed (5400+) of 2.8Ghz. i.e.overclocked. as I stated earlier, because you purchased a fast CPU to begin with you're probably not going to get a large overclock. Maybe if your lucky you'll get to 3.1Ghz. My CPU frequency = 310 which results in a CPU speed of 310 x 9.5 = 2.945Ghz

Third, The memory speed also increases when you increase CPU frequency. So, in order to increase CPU speed by adjusting the CPU frequency upwards you will have to use a memory divider that will in effect lower the memory speed back down to it's acceptable levels. In my case I have it set to 533 which results in a memory speed of 310 x (533/800) = 206Mhz

Fourth, The HTT (Bus between CPU and memory) speed has a theoretical and practical limit of 1000Mhz. The HTT speed is derived from the CPU frequency and is then multiplied by a user defined value. It is shown by: HTT speed = CPU frequency x K8 NB<->HT speed. The HT speed (multiplier) is default at 5 or can be manually set from 1 to 5. In otherwords as you increase the CPU speed by increasing the CPU frequency you must lower the HT speed to not exceed the 1000Mhz barrier. Realistically you can go a little over this limit but in my experience not by too much. In my case, I chose 3 which results in a HTT speed of 310 x 3 = 930Mhz

That's a lot to chew on, I hope it helps and not confuses you.