New Study- Concealed Carry Permits Up, Firearms Deaths Down

[Patranus]

In the 1980s and ’90s, as the concealed-carry movement gained steam, Americans were killed by others with guns at the rate of about 5.66 per 100,000 population. In this decade, the rate has fallen to just over 4.07 per 100,000, a 28 percent drop. The decline follows a fivefold increase in the number of “shall-issue” and unrestricted concealed-carry states from 1986 to 2006.

The highest gun homicide rate is in Washington, D.C., which has had the nation’s strictest gun-control laws for years and bans concealed carry: 20.50 deaths per 100,000 population, five times the general rate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life//

But according to "progressives" we must disarm society for our own safety. I am confused.

 

[spidey07]

I'm going to file this under the "no shit" category.

 

[shadow9d9]

Correlation does not equal causation. Next?

 

[Double Trouble]

Haven't read the story yet, but correlation != causation. To me it seems very logical to think that if more good citizens arm themselves, the bad guys will be less likely to try something (or succeed). I haven't seen any study truly make that determination yet though, other than the correlation aspect.

 

[PokerGuy]

libs can't stand the fact that they are proven wrong once again. Self reliance simply goes against their philosophy of benevolent government dependence, so it needs to be stamped out in all it's forms.

 

[jpeyton]

This is impossible. Everyone knows Obama has been taking away guns from people since he was inaugurated. There is no way concealed carry permits are actually up.

 

[woolfe9999]

libs can't stand the fact that they are proven wrong once again. Self reliance simply goes against their philosophy of benevolent government dependence, so it needs to be stamped out in all it's forms.

For the third time in this thread, correlation does not equal causation. There are loads of different variables which affect the prevelance of different types of crime in society. Acknowledge the point and deal with it.

- wolf

 

[PokerGuy]

For the third time in this thread, correlation does not equal causation. There are loads of different variables which affect the prevelance of different types of crime in society. Acknowledge the point and deal with it.

- wolf

Yeah, surely the magical crime reduction fairy had something to do with it. Just accept reality that the two go hand in hand, that crime levels have gone down with the increase in concealed carry -- just like the advocates for concealed carry said they would. The gun grabbers said the opposite would happen, rampant shootings and crime increases... which of course did not happen.

 

[boomerang]

Unlike health care, we do have a clearly spelled out right to keep and bear arms. Yet, it's estimated that 55% of Americans are not armed. Clearly, we need a governmental program to provide weapons to those in society that are unarmed.

A basic right is being ignored and unfulfilled. Firearms for all! Why should only the rich have guns?

 

[Genx87]

Correlation does not equal causation. Next?

This is a common response when the facts dont back a persons beliefs.

 

[woolfe9999]

Yeah, surely the magical crime reduction fairy had something to do with it. Just accept reality that the two go hand in hand, that crime levels have gone down with the increase in concealed carry -- just like the advocates for concealed carry said they would. The gun grabbers said the opposite would happen, rampant shootings and crime increases... which of course did not happen.

Just accept a causal link not proven? I don't think so.

We aren't talking about "magical crime reduction fairies" here. Loads of variables affect crime rates. Crime *in general*, whether violent or non-violent, gun related or not, has gone down in this country since the middle 1990's.

I have no view of whether carry permits, in isolation, lower or raise gun related deaths. I am simply saying you can't isolate one correlational variable to prove the point you want to prove.

- wolf

 

[WHAMPOM]

Is this crime rate drop the same one that started ten years after abortion was legalized?? Maybe some one has cherry picked their facts to prove an absurd assumption.

 

[Schadenfroh]

I heard on the radio the other day that 11% of Knoxville's population has a CC permit. I was shocked that it was that high. But, crap like this tends to make people want to arm themselves:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom_murder

 

[WHAMPOM]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life//

But according to "progressives" we must disarm society for our own safety. I am confused.

I am happy to say your "progressives" only exist in your own mind and "I am confused" does more then suit you.

 

[Throckmorton]

Haven't read the story yet, but correlation != causation. To me it seems very logical to think that if more good citizens arm themselves, the bad guys will be less likely to try something (or succeed). I haven't seen any study truly make that determination yet though, other than the correlation aspect.

I don't have any problem with concealed carry or open carry or whatever, but I don't buy this causation argument. First of all, I really doubt murderers go around assuming everyone is armed, because the odds are very low. Second of all, if a mugger has a gun pulled on you, you can't just draw and shoot him first. And if a murderer shoots you, you can't shoot back. You're already dead.

 

[spidey07]

I don't have any problem with concealed carry or open carry or whatever, but I don't buy this causation argument. First of all, I really doubt murderers go around assuming everyone is armed, because the odds are very low. Second of all, if a mugger has a gun pulled on you, you can't just draw and shoot him first. And if a murderer shoots you, you can't shoot back. You're already dead.

Hell yes you can and should. Situational awareness helps. If somebody points a weapon at you it is a deadly threat and you are free to kill them immediately.

 

[Throckmorton]

Hell yes you can and should. Situational awareness helps. If somebody points a weapon at you it is a deadly threat and you are free to kill them immediately.

I didn't say you weren't allowed to. I said you CAN'T. Please tell me how the hell you are gonna draw and shoot a guy in the time it takes him to pull the trigger

 

[xj0hnx]

Just accept a causal link not proven? I don't think so.

We aren't talking about "magical crime reduction fairies" here. Loads of variables affect crime rates. Crime *in general*, whether violent or non-violent, gun related or not, has gone down in this country since the middle 1990's.

I have no view of whether carry permits, in isolation, lower or raise gun related deaths. I am simply saying you can't isolate one correlational variable to prove the point you want to prove.

- wolf

It isn't a casual link, it is repeated in statistic after statistic.

 

[Atreus21]

Correlation does not equal causation. Next?

Correction: Correlation may or may not equal causation.

 

[spidey07]

I didn't say you weren't allowed to. I said you CAN'T. Please tell me how the hell you are gonna draw and shoot a guy in the time it takes him to pull the trigger

Throw wallet on ground, shoot him when he bends over. That's why you train so that it becomes second nature and you don't have to think about it. You have to surprise them.

And there have been many studies/interviews with criminals where the criminals say they are scared when they know their victims could be armed legally.

 

[shortylickens]

Correlation does not equal causation. Next?

You should be telling that to the gun grabbers.

 

[zsdersw]

libs can't stand the fact that they are proven wrong once again. Self reliance simply goes against their philosophy of benevolent government dependence, so it needs to be stamped out in all it's forms.

This post is entirely useless "their side"-bashing and hyperbole. Try to post something useful instead.

 

[zsdersw]

Correlation does not equal causation. Next?

This is a flippant and, therefore, useless response. Try to post something useful next time.

 

[highland145]

No matter what, we all should be happy less people are dead. I do have a ccw and am happy to point to this article as a plus. Having said that, it is impossible to trust anyone not to have an agenda on any hot button issue.

 

[shira]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life//

But according to "progressives" we must disarm society for our own safety. I am confused.

The rate of teenage pregnancy has decreased markedly since the early 1980s. So clearly concealed carry laws are the cause.