New Stem Cell Method

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,872
10,667
147
New Method Avoid Killing Embryos

NY Times Sub Link Excerpted:
Biologists have developed a technique for establishing colonies of human embryonic stem cells without killing embryos, a method that, if confirmed in other laboratories, would seem to remove the principal objection to stem cell research.

?There is no rational reason left to oppose this research,? said Dr. Robert Lanza, vice president of Advanced Cell Technology and leader of a team that reported the new method in an article in today?s Nature. But critics of human embryonic stem cell research raised other objections, such as the possible risk to the embryo and the in vitro fertilization procedure itself in which embryos are generated from a couple?s egg and sperm.

The new technique would be performed on an embryo when it is two days old, after the fertilized egg has divided into eight cells, known as blastomeres. In fertility clinics, where the embryo is available outside the mother in the normal course of in vitro fertilization, one of these blastomeres can be removed for diagnostic tests, such as for Down?s syndrome, and the embryo, now with seven cells, can be implanted in the mother if no defect is found. Many such embryos have grown into apparently healthy babies over the ten years or so the diagnostic tests have been used.

Up to now, human embryonic stem cells have been derived at a later stage of development when the embryo consists of about 150 cells. Harvesting these cells kills the embryo.

Last year, Dr. Lanza reported that embryonic stem cell cultures could be derived from the blastomeres of mice, a finding others have confirmed. He now says the same can be done with human blastomeres. Although he used discarded human embryos in his experiments, he said that anyone who wished to derive human embryonic stem cells without destroying an embryo could use a blastomere removed for the test, called pre-implantation genetic diagnosis. ?By growing the biopsied cell overnight, the resulting cells could be used for both PGD and the generation of stem cells without affecting the subsequent chances of having a child,? he said.

Ronald M. Green, an ethicist at Dartmouth College and an adviser to Advanced Cell Technology, said he hoped the new method ?provides a way of ending the impasse about federal funding for this research.?

He said he believed the method should be seen as compatible with the Dickey-Wicker amendment, the Congressional action that blocked the use of federal funds for research in which a human embryo is destroyed or exposed to undue risk.
Those damn Dickey-Wickers have ruled over us long enough!


 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

If it doesn't kill the embryo I don't see why the pro-life crowd would have a problem with it.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

If it doesn't kill the embryo I don't see why the pro-life crowd would have a problem with it.

heh, you are overestimating people if you think a rational argument like that will sway them! I mean hey you are still killing cells, and cells are people too right?
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

If it doesn't kill the embryo I don't see why the pro-life crowd would have a problem with it.

heh, you are overestimating people if you think a rational argument like that will sway them! I mean hey you are still killing cells, and cells are people too right?

At the risk of turning this into YAADT (Yet another abortion debate thread) I see the pro-life side as seeing that a fertillized embryo is a life and that cells are cells.

It's the pro-abortion side that says an embryo is "just a clump of cells."

You're kind of merging the two.
 

wazzledoozle

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2006
1,814
0
0
Bush will claim something like this-
"This new method of harvesting stem cells conflicts with the very concepts of conception and birth that this country was founded on, and it is my belief that it is in this nation's best interests to block this research."

:D
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

If it doesn't kill the embryo I don't see why the pro-life crowd would have a problem with it.

heh, you are overestimating people if you think a rational argument like that will sway them! I mean hey you are still killing cells, and cells are people too right?

As soon as you say "Stem cells" to any of the crazy ones, they just go nuts and start yelling about murdering babies, likely oblivious to the fact that their own bodies contain stem cells, or to the fact that embryonic stem cells are obtained from embryos which would otherwise be discarded. It's not like the researchers are going to college campuses and waiting to find recently impregnated girls, when upon finding them, the researchers sneak in at night to "harvest" the embryo. Though the extremists probably think that that's what goes on.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

If it doesn't kill the embryo I don't see why the pro-life crowd would have a problem with it.
They won't, and that hurts some who were used to bitching about other's beliefs on this topic.

the OP's article is great news. :)

 

catnap1972

Platinum Member
Aug 10, 2000
2,607
0
76
Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
Bush will claim something like this-
"This new method of harvesting stem cells conflicts with the very concepts of conception and birth that this country was founded on, and it is my belief that it is in this nation's best interests to block this research."

:D

Not to mention it's blasphemous to go against "god's will" by preserving the lives of people who are "meant to die".
 

themusgrat

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2005
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

If it doesn't kill the embryo I don't see why the pro-life crowd would have a problem with it.

heh, you are overestimating people if you think a rational argument like that will sway them! I mean hey you are still killing cells, and cells are people too right?

As soon as you say "Stem cells" to any of the crazy ones, they just go nuts and start yelling about murdering babies, likely oblivious to the fact that their own bodies contain stem cells, or to the fact that embryonic stem cells are obtained from embryos which would otherwise be discarded. It's not like the researchers are going to college campuses and waiting to find recently impregnated girls, when upon finding them, the researchers sneak in at night to "harvest" the embryo. Though the extremists probably think that that's what goes on.

I am pro life, and uh, if this isn't killing anything... what isn't pro life about it? And don't make the mistake of thinking that none of us have brains, look where it has gotten you... Ya, it is the evangelicals that pretty much will decide this issue i think? probably. Anyways, I don't see why we have to go on and on about this. If we were to save say, umbilical cords from every birth that takes place in a hospital, we would have plenty of stem cells to do research on. And I would think that that would satisfy pretty much everyone.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

If it doesn't kill the embryo I don't see why the pro-life crowd would have a problem with it.
Repubs are not pro-life.. they are anti-abortion.. massive difference.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: themusgrat
Ya, it is the evangelicals that pretty much will decide this issue i think? probably. Anyways, I don't see why we have to go on and on about this. If we were to save say, umbilical cords from every birth that takes place in a hospital, we would have plenty of stem cells to do research on. And I would think that that would satisfy pretty much everyone.

What makes you say that? Why should evangelicals decide this issue? Furthermore, stem cells derived from umbilical cords are undifferentiated cells while stem cells from embryonic sources are differentiated. It's not the same thing.
 

themusgrat

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2005
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: themusgrat
Ya, it is the evangelicals that pretty much will decide this issue i think? probably. Anyways, I don't see why we have to go on and on about this. If we were to save say, umbilical cords from every birth that takes place in a hospital, we would have plenty of stem cells to do research on. And I would think that that would satisfy pretty much everyone.

What makes you say that? Why should evangelicals decide this issue? Furthermore, stem cells derived from umbilical cords are undifferentiated cells while stem cells from embryonic sources are differentiated. It's not the same thing.

well, it just seems that research always grinds to a halt without the "approval" of the Christian community. Maybe it is wrong, but everones knows that people are always looking for the vote of the evangelicals, there are a lot of us :)
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: themusgrat
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: themusgrat
Ya, it is the evangelicals that pretty much will decide this issue i think? probably. Anyways, I don't see why we have to go on and on about this. If we were to save say, umbilical cords from every birth that takes place in a hospital, we would have plenty of stem cells to do research on. And I would think that that would satisfy pretty much everyone.

What makes you say that? Why should evangelicals decide this issue? Furthermore, stem cells derived from umbilical cords are undifferentiated cells while stem cells from embryonic sources are differentiated. It's not the same thing.

well, it just seems that research always grinds to a halt without the "approval" of the Christian community. Maybe it is wrong, but everones knows that people are always looking for the vote of the evangelicals, there are a lot of us :)

If you say so, but as your own post revealed, you don't fully understand the issue. Why should we let folks like you hold up valuable and potentially life-saving medical research just because you have a moralistic/ideological issue with it?
 

themusgrat

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2005
1,408
0
0
uh, maybe i wasnt clear... i dont have a problem with it, and if i did, does anyone really understand the ramifications of stem cell research??? it isnt wrong to have an opinion even if you dont know everything there is to know about it. and you arent letting me do anything... at all... i am stating my opinion, whether you like it or not. just like you are... though i think we kind of agree on this particular issue?
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

They'll still claim we are messing with God and keep it shut down I'm sure.

Yeah I kinda feel it's gonna go along those lines ... "dont play god/jesus ... no federal funding"
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,787
10,086
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

They'll still claim we are messing with God and keep it shut down I'm sure.

It were those "whiners" who forced it to come to a solution like this in the first place.
 

imported_inspire

Senior member
Jun 29, 2006
986
0
0
Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
Bush will claim something like this-
"This new method of harvesting stem cells conflicts with the very concepts of conception and birth that this country was founded on, and it is my belief that it is in this nation's best interests to block this research."

:D

Probably Not. Because the logical extension of this would be banning horomonal birth control, which has abortafacient characteristics. Lots of people are pro-life, but how many actually stick to their guns and put the Depo-Provera down?

Personally, I think something is lost when life is created outside a natural environment. I think sex is more than a physical thing. Those are my personal beliefs, and yes, I'm catholic. I'm glad to hear that people don't have to be destroyed for this research. So, it doesn't make think of smiling babies when I go to sleep, but, for now, my main concern has been answered, so I don't have any hang-ups with it.

As for the arguement - far more intelligent people (including a Presidential Bioethics Advisory committee) have spent lots of time philosphizing this topic, in particular, and they've all reached the same impasse - how do you define human life?

I think the debate will become a moot point - the OP has shown that the moral problem is no longer an impediment to this research.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Let's see the Republicans try and whine their way out of this one.

They'll still claim we are messing with God and keep it shut down I'm sure.

Yeah I kinda feel it's gonna go along those lines ... "dont play god/jesus ... no federal funding"

All you had to do was read further down the article for the rabid "Pro-life" response:

Richard Doerflinger, deputy director for pro-life activities at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, said the church opposed in-vitro fertilization because of the high death rate of embryos in fertility clinics and because separating procreation from the act of love made the embryo seem ?more a product of manufacture than a gift.?

Asked if he meant the parents of an in-vitro child would love it less, Mr. Doerflinger said he was referring to the clinic staff.

?The technician does not love this child, has no personal connection with the child, and with every I.V.F. procedure he or she may get more and more used to the idea of the child as manufacture,? he said.

Wow....I'm kinda shocked to learn that you can't create life without an "act of love". Whodathunkit!?!
 

imported_inspire

Senior member
Jun 29, 2006
986
0
0
He didn't really say that life couldn't be created 'without an act of love'... What I got from it was that this cheapens life in the eyes of the technician.

Simply put, the church believes that sex has two aspects - procreative and unitive, and that, when you take one away, you're taking something away from the act. The rest of the arguement (like high in-vitro death rate) is only included because it provides non-theological support to the arguement and makes sense to non-catholics.

I'm not meaning to argue IVF here - just clarifying what the church says about it (not meaning to argue that, either) to add some perspective on what Mr. Doerflinger meant. I'm sure you folks have your own salt you can add :D

 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,368
47,631
136
Funny how Jerry Falwell just yesterday made a headline about his continued problem with stem cell research and why it should be illegal.

 

M00T

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2000
1,214
1
0
They have already given their ignorant response:

But religious groups still oppose the new method, claiming that foetuses might not survive, or may be born with defects.

Link