new sports cars under $30K

[Arkaign]

The '11+ V6 Mustang is good for a V6, but it's still a V6. :thumbsdown:

And yes, the backseat on the Mustang is awful. Small kids can sit back there, but it is a pain in the ass getting in an out. These cars (Mustang, Challenger, Camaro) are really meant for 2 people, max.

Is the 370Z or Genesis 3.8L crap too? How about the E46 M3 with the I6 and about the same power/performance? 0-60 around 5 seconds, quarter in the 13s, .98g skidpad, these are pretty solid numbers in any book.

I do know what you're saying to some extent though. I've now driven both the new 5.0, old 4.6, and new 3.7. The 3.7 has to be driven like a high strung motor, it really doesn't have that low-level punch of the V8s. It's mostly a feel thing, as the 3.7L is very close to the 4.6L in actual speed/performance, but you have to drive it really hard to get there. Both cars driven from idle to redline in each gear, the V8 definitely pulls hard from the beginning, while the V6 spins up. If you rev the V6 up a bit before dumping the clutch, it'll give a good kick though.

V6 just doesn't give classic muscle car feel. Even slower cars like the old fox-body 5.0s of the 80s 'feel' faster due to that feeling of torque.

 

[Elfear]

The '11+ V6 Mustang is about as fast as the base V8 options on the Challenger and Camaro, at least manual to manual, unsure about automatic times.

Didn't you make this same comment in another thread? The V8 version of the Camaro is much closer to the performance of the 5.0 than it is to the V6. If your definition of "about as fast" includes the V6 Mustang and the V8 Camaro, then you might as well say the GT500 and and V8 Camaro are close competitors.

 

[Arkaign]

Didn't you make this same comment in another thread? The V8 version of the Camaro is much closer to the performance of the 5.0 than it is to the V6. If your definition of "about as fast" includes the V6 Mustang and the V8 Camaro, then you might as well say the GT500 and and V8 Camaro are close competitors.

You know what, you're sort of right.

The '11 Mustang V6 is about dead even, or a shade faster or slower (.01-.02s depending on whose test you look at) than the outgoing gen of the Charger SRT V8.

The Challenger and Charger R/T models are a lot slower. (Base V8, not the SRTs).

http://www.insideline.com/dodge/challenger/2009/performance-tested-2009-dodge-challenger-rt.html

"The 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T with its 375-hp 5.7-liter V8 and six-speed manual transmission accelerated to 60 mph in 5.9 seconds"

So, in other words, the base V8 Charger and Challenger are notably slower than the Mustang V6. The SRT V8s are about even. The newer models should be a bit better.

All V8 Camaros, OTOH, are definitively faster than the V6 Mustang, with times of 4.5-4.8 depending on model and test. So I was definitely off on the Camaro, I think I must have been remembering the slowish V6 times. The V6 Camaro is slower than all of the other muscle cars outside of the V6 Challenger/Chargers.

 

[7window]

I highly doubt that a 2011 v6 mustang is as fast as a v8 camaro. A mustang owner.

 

[Arkaign]

I highly doubt that a 2011 v6 mustang is as fast as a v8 camaro. A mustang owner.

Yeah I got that wrong. The V8 camaro is about .3-.5s faster to 60, and would really rock the V6 mustang from a roll or to triple digits.

The V6 Mustang does beat the R/T V8 Charger and Challenger though, and is about the same speed as the old SRT8s. The new gen of the Charger should be a whole lot better though, and I'm assuming those same upgrades are going in the Challenger.

 

[alkemyst]

Just for the record...displacement and tuning makes the biggest difference.

The Mustang V6 would only beat the SRT8's published times...The GT500 can beat them...

 

[Arkaign]

Just for the record...displacement and tuning makes the biggest difference.

The Mustang V6 would only beat the SRT8's published times...The GT500 can beat them...

Yeah stock v. stock only for sure. A lot easier to open up a big V8 than it is an already high-strung V6. The only way the 3.7L would stand a chance after decent mods would be forced induction, and that's kind of a wild-card at this point. AFAIK, the 3.5L is the only 'ecoboost' Ford 6-cylinder. I wonder if the 3.7 will ever get the treatment. Even if it does, it's probably going to be a bit different than the regular 3.7L, with most of the changes occuring on the top end.

Now that I think about it, as good as the current 3.5L EB motor is, a change to the 3.7L setup probably doesn't seem likely. It'd be a big investment for probably not much change.

 

[JackBurton]

Is the 370Z or Genesis 3.8L crap too? How about the E46 M3 with the I6 and about the same power/performance? 0-60 around 5 seconds, quarter in the 13s, .98g skidpad, these are pretty solid numbers in any book.

I do know what you're saying to some extent though. I've now driven both the new 5.0, old 4.6, and new 3.7. The 3.7 has to be driven like a high strung motor, it really doesn't have that low-level punch of the V8s. It's mostly a feel thing, as the 3.7L is very close to the 4.6L in actual speed/performance, but you have to drive it really hard to get there. Both cars driven from idle to redline in each gear, the V8 definitely pulls hard from the beginning, while the V6 spins up. If you rev the V6 up a bit before dumping the clutch, it'll give a good kick though.

V6 just doesn't give classic muscle car feel. Even slower cars like the old fox-body 5.0s of the 80s 'feel' faster due to that feeling of torque.

My comment only applies to muscle cars. It would be like getting a V6 Vette (if they made one). It just isn't a real Vette. And I LOVE it well people put a "racing stripe" on their V6 Mustang. Serious, WTH are you racing? A Camry?

BTW, I like the 350Z and 370Z. I know I'm in the minority, but I actually like the look of the 350Z more than the 370Z.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

My comment only applies to muscle cars. It would be like getting a V6 Vette (if they made one). It just isn't a real Vette. And I LOVE it well people put a "racing stripe" on their V6 Mustang. Serious, WTH are you racing? A Camry?

BTW, I like the 350Z and 370Z. I know I'm in the minority, but I actually like the look of the 350Z more than the 370Z.

I like the 350z and 370z - I looked at both before picking up my E46 M3 - but based on the OP's criteria, the G37/G35 sounds like a better fit.

 

[JackBurton]

I like the 350z and 370z - I looked at both before picking up my E46 M3 - but based on the OP's criteria, the G37/G35 sounds like a better fit.

I like the E46 M3 too.

 

[Throckmorton]

I know a guy who just got a V6 Camaro. He said a cold air intake can get the V6 up from 312hp close to 350hp.

 

[JackBurton]

I know a guy who just got a V6 Camaro. He said a cold air intake can get the V6 up from 312hp close to 350hp.

I've driven the V6 Camaro. It is awful! It is like driving a Toyota Camry with a Camaro shell. Completely soulless. And a CAI ain't going to fix that.

 

[halik]

M3 Coupe has a back seat so you could fit 2 kids in the back of one. Elise does not. I would consider the M3 a sports car.

I've actually driven a Lotus Elise, lived with one as my daily driver for 4 days in fact, and practical it is not...it is about as practical as a motorcycle. Still, I'd love to have one!

I'm 6ft, 170-180lbs and have no problems fitting in the back of my M3.

On the o/p topic, 100 bucks says he'll buy a fusion and/or malibu.

 

[Throckmorton]

I've driven the V6 Camaro. It is awful! It is like driving a Toyota Camry with a Camaro shell. Completely soulless. And a CAI ain't going to fix that.

Because it doesn't have the low end grunt of the V8?

 

[JackBurton]

Because it doesn't have the low end grunt of the V8?

Well it definitely didn't have the grunt that a muscle car should have, but it also felt sluggish (it was an automatic though). Like I said, the best I can describe it is, it's like driving a Camry with a Camaro shell. On the contrary, I've driven my friend's 350z (I believe it was ~275hp), and it was VERY responsive and fun as hell to drive. I was most impressed with it's smooth shifting (manual).

 

[Zargon]

I know a guy who just got a V6 Camaro. He said a cold air intake can get the V6 up from 312hp close to 350hp.

that guy is likely an idiot, just an FYI

 

[Arkaign]

Well it definitely didn't have the grunt that a muscle car should have, but it also felt sluggish (it was an automatic though). Like I said, the best I can describe it is, it's like driving a Camry with a Camaro shell. On the contrary, I've driven my friend's 350z (I believe it was ~275hp), and it was VERY responsive and fun as hell to drive. I was most impressed with it's smooth shifting (manual).

There's the thing right there. Driving a V6 Mustang with a manual is like driving the Z with the manual. With smaller displacement motors making more of their power above 4k, you really need the control to feel the capability of the car. Driving an auto off the line from idle is a boggy experience with those motors. One of my bosses gave me the keys to his minty black 350Z auto to go on some errands, and while I thought it was a nice car, it definitely was hindered by the auto. I'd imagine the Camaro V6 auto to be even worse, given the significant extra weight.

You kind of have to throw the 'muscle' car image out the window with a V6 Mustang. It's just a pretty good entry sports car, so long as it's a manual. With an auto they all pretty much bog off. Whereas an auto Vette, GT, etc, stuff with heaps of torque everywhere, well those things will move with a passion.

Hah, what's much worse even than that is econoboxes with conventional 3 or 4-speed slushboxes. My 5-speed Focus is pretty responsive (not fast though, lol), and it's agonizing driving the automatic version. The motor is gutless until around 3200 at least, then it starts to get going decently, only 2500lbs to push though. I don't think they make automatic Lotus Elise/Exige, but if they did, it would also suck.

 

[Arkaign]

that guy is likely an idiot, just an FYI

Yeah those are the types of gains that might be had by :

really good CAI, headers, exhaust, ECU tune combined with 93+ octane, maybe different plugs, etc.

 

[Throckmorton]

that guy is likely an idiot, just an FYI

My bad, he said 320hp