New Sony A200 DSLR announced

[Heidfirst]

http://www.sony.net/Products/dslr/a200/index.html
appears to be a straight replacement for the A100.

http://news.sel.sony.com/en/pr...slr/release/32285.html

 

[AndrewR]

Ah, beat me to it! I didn't see it until near midnight last night.

Looks like they fixed some of the criticisms of the A100 (hopefully sensor noise) and borrowed some good stuff from the A700 (faster focusing, less noisy mirror, QuikNav). I understand why, but I was disappointed to see the same pentamirror as the A100 so I won't be buying it. I miss my 7D's bright, beautiful pentaprism, and I'm aiming for the A700 when I can afford it.

One other possibly exciting tidbit is that the vertical grip is called the VG-B30AM (A700's is the VG-B70AM) so it looks like there's another model coming that will share the grip, the A300, in addition to the upcoming A900 professional level camera which is now purported to have a top level LCD, not sure if that's new or not.

Very interestingly, the A300 might have a tilting LCD with LiveView. No word on the focus mechanism with the LiveView, but the tilting LCD will make LV actually usable rather than most current gimmicky or niche implementations. There's a picture out there of the LCD on a Chinese web forum.

Could be a banner year for Sony DSLRs!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
Very interestingly, the A300 might have a tilting LCD with LiveView. No word on the focus mechanism with the LiveView, but the tilting LCD will make LV actually usable rather than most current gimmicky or niche implementations. There's a picture out there of the LCD on a Chinese web forum.

olympus and panasonic already have this feature. and LV works pretty darn well without it. also, LCDs generally have to be smaller with LV, and if it were between the high res (640x480) 3" sony screen and lower res (320x240) 2.5" screen, i'd rather have the larger. then again, i've never had a camera with an articulating LCD, so my opinion probably isn't worth much.

as for A900 having a top deck LCD, it better. pro shooters seem ridiculously stodgy in their ways, even if using the big LCD out back is a better solution. (plastic?!? it's lighter, cheaper, stronger, and better wearing than magnesium? so?)

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: AndrewR
Very interestingly, the A300 might have a tilting LCD with LiveView. No word on the focus mechanism with the LiveView, but the tilting LCD will make LV actually usable rather than most current gimmicky or niche implementations. There's a picture out there of the LCD on a Chinese web forum.

olympus and panasonic already have this feature. and LV works pretty darn well without it. also, LCDs generally have to be smaller with LV, and if it were between the high res (640x480) 3" sony screen and lower res (320x240) 2.5" screen, i'd rather have the larger. then again, i've never had a camera with an articulating LCD, so my opinion probably isn't worth much.

as for A900 having a top deck LCD, it better. pro shooters seem ridiculously stodgy in their ways, even if using the big LCD out back is a better solution. (plastic?!? it's lighter, cheaper, stronger, and better wearing than magnesium? so?)

Yes, I know that Olympus and Panasonic already have this feature (doesn't Panny use Oly features?), and they have the best implementation of LV so far. Canikon don't, and while LV may work, it's impact is much more limited to specific situations that are not the most mainstream applications (tripod usage in studio, macro at weird angles or close to the ground).

No word on what size LCD the articulating one uses. My guess is that it will use the newer A200 screen, which is slightly smaller and lower resolution than the A700's, but is supposed to be an improvement on the A100's already good display.

I used a Sony F717 extensively, and while that didn't have an articulating display, the rotating body accomplished the same thing. It was a joy to use and enabled shots that would be nearly impossible without. LV without that ability, while useful to some degree, misses the main effect -- shooting below or above waist level while maintaining the ability to properly compose the shot. One fun thing is shooting from the waist to get some candid shots without alerting your subject(s).

For the top LCD, I couldn't care less. I have never felt the lack of one, but if the Canikon fan sites that disguise themselves as reviewers keep clamoring for it, the lack of it in a Sony professional level product will be an immediate downgrade in rating. Just look at the A700's lack of LV. Oh, but it has wireless flash, built-in stabilization, low noise CMOS processor, and an extremely fast focusing system. No LiveView???!? :roll:

 

[Zenmervolt]

Nevermind, I mis-read the spec sheet. There is a DOF preview button.

It's great to see that there's a new mass-market model out and I cannot wait to see how it does in reviews.

ZV

 

[ElFenix]

panny uses the mirror box and sensor that olympus does, other than that i don't think they share much else. i'm not sure who uses whose articulating LCD, but it's just like the canon LCDs that rotate all around, rather than like the old panasonics that were hinged at the bottom. last i heard that design was patented, so it could be that both licensed canon or figured out a workaround (or maybe the patents expired, no idea).

i think the LV warnings about it being tripod mounted are because traditional SLR holding is very stable, but holding the camera out in front of you is not. in my limited experience it works pretty well without a tripod. better than any compact because phase detect is so much faster than contrast detect.

olympus has a top deck LCD in the E-3, and they're not exactly stodgy.

 

[soydios]

would everybody please quit slamming Live View? have you even tried it?
Live View would've come in really handy when I was trying to manually focus a photograph of the moon in the DX-size viewfinder of my D50 with a 400mm f/2.8 and 2x TC.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: soydios
would everybody please quit slamming Live View? have you even tried it?
Live View would've come in really handy when I was trying to manually focus a photograph of the moon in the DX-size viewfinder of my D50 with a 400mm f/2.8 and 2x TC.

See, you just made my point. How many people are going to take pictures of the moon with a 400mm f/2.8 and a 2x TC? It's a very niche capability right now given its implementation in most cases.

Like I said above, with a moveable screen, LV is awesome -- when I sold my F717 and moved to the Maxxum 7D, I really missed it (though the 7D did so many things better than the F717). Without the moveable screen (and a P&S with "LiveView" and no moveable screen operates the same way as a DSLR), it is useful but hardly a "must have" feature that proponents have been saying mainly to bash competitors who don't have it.

On another note, did you get a good photo of the moon?

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
olympus and panasonic already have this feature. and LV works pretty darn well without it.

but AF in LV generally doesn't ...

the Sony with LV http://www.markus-berger.de/temp/1.jpg looks similar body to A200 so possibly the A300.

Originally posted by: sodios
Live View would've come in really handy when I was trying to manually focus a photograph of the moon in the DX-size viewfinder of my D50 with a 400mm f/2.8 and 2x TC

So would a better optical viewfinder though ...
What's wrong with AF as it should be usable at f5.6?
Indeed I'm surprised that setting infinity didn't work adequately (you can tell that I'm not an astrophotographer)?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Heidfirst

Originally posted by: ElFenix
olympus and panasonic already have this feature. and LV works pretty darn well without it.

but AF in LV generally doesn't ...

phase detect AF works just fine. i guess the view isn't 'live' for that split second, but whatever. if you wanted to see what you were taking a picture of you'd buy a rangefinder.

 

[Heidfirst]

I'm not aware of any DSLR with phase detect AF though?
Nikon D300 & D3 have Contrast-detect though which isn't as fast.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Heidfirst
I'm not aware of any DSLR with phase detect AF though?
Nikon D300 & D3 have Contrast-detect though which isn't as fast.

All DSLRs use phase difference detection for focusing when the mirror is down IIRC. Contrast detection is what is used when focus is based on the readout from the imaging chip.

ZV

 

[Heidfirst]

True but then with Live view you have to mirror flip for auto focus which obviously isn't an ideal solution.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Heidfirst
True but then with Live view you have to mirror flip for auto focus which obviously isn't an ideal solution.

its faster than contrast detect in pretty much all lighting situations. works better than any compact i've used. lets see, a compact you press the button, it hunts, it hunts some more, then it finally takes a picture, the screen freezes with what you wanted the picture to be, and when the final image is displayed, it's the thing that happened a split second later.

like i said, if you wanted to see what you were taking a picture of at the moment of capture, you'd have a rangefinder, not an SLR.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: AndrewR
Very interestingly, the A300 might have a tilting LCD with LiveView. No word on the focus mechanism with the LiveView, but the tilting LCD will make LV actually usable rather than most current gimmicky or niche implementations. There's a picture out there of the LCD on a Chinese web forum.

olympus and panasonic already have this feature. and LV works pretty darn well without it. also, LCDs generally have to be smaller with LV, and if it were between the high res (640x480) 3" sony screen and lower res (320x240) 2.5" screen, i'd rather have the larger. then again, i've never had a camera with an articulating LCD, so my opinion probably isn't worth much.

as for A900 having a top deck LCD, it better. pro shooters seem ridiculously stodgy in their ways, even if using the big LCD out back is a better solution. (plastic?!? it's lighter, cheaper, stronger, and better wearing than magnesium? so?)

Yes, I know that Olympus and Panasonic already have this feature (doesn't Panny use Oly features?), and they have the best implementation of LV so far. Canikon don't, and while LV may work, it's impact is much more limited to specific situations that are not the most mainstream applications (tripod usage in studio, macro at weird angles or close to the ground).

No word on what size LCD the articulating one uses. My guess is that it will use the newer A200 screen, which is slightly smaller and lower resolution than the A700's, but is supposed to be an improvement on the A100's already good display.

I used a Sony F717 extensively, and while that didn't have an articulating display, the rotating body accomplished the same thing. It was a joy to use and enabled shots that would be nearly impossible without. LV without that ability, while useful to some degree, misses the main effect -- shooting below or above waist level while maintaining the ability to properly compose the shot. One fun thing is shooting from the waist to get some candid shots without alerting your subject(s).

For the top LCD, I couldn't care less. I have never felt the lack of one, but if the Canikon fan sites that disguise themselves as reviewers keep clamoring for it, the lack of it in a Sony professional level product will be an immediate downgrade in rating. Just look at the A700's lack of LV. Oh, but it has wireless flash, built-in stabilization, low noise CMOS processor, and an extremely fast focusing system. No LiveView???!? :roll:

I couldn't care less about Live View personally, but I do love the top lcd, and use it every single time I pick up the camera. Being able to clearly see all the important settings with a quick glance anytime, without having to cue up the LCD or look into the viewfinder is amazingly convenient, and not having the top LCD would drive me up the wall.

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: dug777 but I do love the top lcd, and use it every single time I pick up the camera. Being able to clearly see my settings with a quick glance anytime, without having to cue up the LCD or look into the viewfinder is amazingly convenient, and not having the top LCD would drive me up the wall.

I've never missed it myself as KM/Sony use the larger back LCD for that & just touching e.g. the shutter button will have it spring into life as long as the camera is switched on.
I believe that Nikon leave a few details viewable on the top LCD with the camera switched off though hwereas Canon switches off totally.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Heidfirst

Originally posted by: dug777 but I do love the top lcd, and use it every single time I pick up the camera. Being able to clearly see my settings with a quick glance anytime, without having to cue up the LCD or look into the viewfinder is amazingly convenient, and not having the top LCD would drive me up the wall.

I've never missed it myself as KM/Sony use the larger back LCD for that & just touching e.g. the shutter button will have it spring into life as long as the camera is switched on.
I believe that Nikon leave a few details viewable on the top LCD with the camera switched off though hwereas Canon switches off totally.

I think it's still far more convenient to be able to see that stuff on the top LCD, without having to shift you grip and angle to peer at a screen. I've used a D40 without the top LCD, and after using my D80 it was a complete pita, relatively at least, but it's little things like that which make the difference when everything else is often very similar between cameras these days

I use the top LCD almost exclusively when shooting, and rarely use the back LCD (except to review pics) or the viewfinder infobar.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: Heidfirst

Originally posted by: dug777 but I do love the top lcd, and use it every single time I pick up the camera. Being able to clearly see my settings with a quick glance anytime, without having to cue up the LCD or look into the viewfinder is amazingly convenient, and not having the top LCD would drive me up the wall.

I've never missed it myself as KM/Sony use the larger back LCD for that & just touching e.g. the shutter button will have it spring into life as long as the camera is switched on.
I believe that Nikon leave a few details viewable on the top LCD with the camera switched off though hwereas Canon switches off totally.

I think it's still far more convenient to be able to see that stuff on the top LCD, without having to shift you grip and angle to peer at a screen. I've used a D40 without the top LCD, and after using my D80 it was a complete pita, relatively at least, but it's little things like that which make the difference when everything else is often very similar between cameras these days

I use the top LCD almost exclusively when shooting, and rarely use the back LCD (except to review pics) or the viewfinder infobar.

How about if the camera is set at eye level on a tripod for ease of looking through the viewfinder, like when I do pretty every time I use the camera for landscape or portraits? I don't like bending down to look through the viewfinder, and fortunately my tripod extends up to eye level since I'm not the tallest guy around. A top level LCD is pointless in that case, which is probably why I have never really felt the lack of one.

I also don't like the idea of having to remove the VF from my eye and tilt the camera or lower it in order to see the settings. Having it on the back LCD allows me to move the camera forward from my eye to see the settings.

I think it all depends on what you get used to having available, but an even better system would have the settings broadcast directly to the optic nerve so they'd be available all the time. We're probably a few years from that, though.

 

[OdiN]

It's nice to see the settings on the LCD (especially one with that resolution). But I would still want a top LCD for settings. For outdoor shooting in sunlight - how well can you see that LCD? Is it good enough to be usable in direct sunlight? If not, then give me my top LCD. Also this increases power consuption vs. settings on a top LCD.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: OdiN
It's nice to see the settings on the LCD (especially one with that resolution). But I would still want a top LCD for settings. For outdoor shooting in sunlight - how well can you see that LCD? Is it good enough to be usable in direct sunlight? If not, then give me my top LCD. Also this increases power consuption vs. settings on a top LCD.

FWIW, I keep my LCD on the dimmest setting and I've never had any trouble seeing it even on bright summer days.

ZV

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OdiN
It's nice to see the settings on the LCD (especially one with that resolution). But I would still want a top LCD for settings. For outdoor shooting in sunlight - how well can you see that LCD? Is it good enough to be usable in direct sunlight? If not, then give me my top LCD. Also this increases power consuption vs. settings on a top LCD.

FWIW, I keep my LCD on the dimmest setting and I've never had any trouble seeing it even on bright summer days.

ZV

What kind of camera?

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OdiN
It's nice to see the settings on the LCD (especially one with that resolution). But I would still want a top LCD for settings. For outdoor shooting in sunlight - how well can you see that LCD? Is it good enough to be usable in direct sunlight? If not, then give me my top LCD. Also this increases power consuption vs. settings on a top LCD.

FWIW, I keep my LCD on the dimmest setting and I've never had any trouble seeing it even on bright summer days.

ZV

Ditto for me with the A100. I recall having slight troubles with the 7D on rare occasions but never with the Sony -- even in the Vegas desert.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OdiN
It's nice to see the settings on the LCD (especially one with that resolution). But I would still want a top LCD for settings. For outdoor shooting in sunlight - how well can you see that LCD? Is it good enough to be usable in direct sunlight? If not, then give me my top LCD. Also this increases power consuption vs. settings on a top LCD.

FWIW, I keep my LCD on the dimmest setting and I've never had any trouble seeing it even on bright summer days.

ZV

What kind of camera?

Sorry. A100.

It can wash out a little for reviewing photos, but since the shooting info is in bold white text on a black background it stands out quite well.

ZV

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: OdiN
But I would still want a top LCD for settings. For outdoor shooting in sunlight - how well can you see that LCD? Is it good enough to be usable in direct sunlight? If not, then give me my top LCD.

surely a top mounted LCD is just as prone to being unreadable in direct sunlight?
I'm also told that the size of the script on the D3/D300 top screens is tiny & almost unreadable.

A lot of it is habit & humans are extremely adaptable so either way is just a temporary foible until you adapt.

edit: PMA is going to be interesting ...
http://i11.tinypic.com/8annn8o.jpg
(I do wish that we could post images here )

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Heidfirst

Originally posted by: OdiN
But I would still want a top LCD for settings. For outdoor shooting in sunlight - how well can you see that LCD? Is it good enough to be usable in direct sunlight? If not, then give me my top LCD.

surely a top mounted LCD is just as prone to being unreadable in direct sunlight?
I'm also told that the size of the script on the D3/D300 top screens is tiny & almost unreadable.

A lot of it is habit & humans are extremely adaptable so either way is just a temporary foible until you adapt.

edit: PMA is going to be interesting ...
http://i11.tinypic.com/8annn8o.jpg
(I do wish that we could post images here )

No sir

At least on the D80 it's just an old fashioned black on grey/brown LCD background like you find on calculators, so it doesn't matter how bright the sunlight is, it's still sharp, clear and vividly contrasts with the background. Back light option for night time too.

I'm sure I would eventually adapt to not having it, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't miss it, and it that I, or anyone else for that matter, would ever be better off without it, because it provides such convenient access to all your important settings.

You can argue that you manage just fine without a top LCD, and that is perfectly valid, but I think that almost everyone would admit that they would get more utility out of having one than not.