New School Rule: Skip Homework Still Get Grade

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: skace
I started reading the posts in this thread but almost every single one seems negative. I don't see the issue, the child is still getting an F (50). That means that kid is relying heavy on really good testing grades to pull his average up and a kid who is averaging a 50 for the class based on homework alone probably doesn't have the knowledge to pull it up above that. End result? Still a failure.

The only thing this really helps is a kid who actually doesn't turn in homework but is really smart and aces every test. I don't see a real problem with helping that kid.

There is already so much grade inflation that it would be quite easy to pass the class despite never having turned any assignments in.

 

[Juno]

Originally posted by: JRich
I hardly did my homework in HS and I ended up with a 3.0 GPA

ditto and 3.4 gpa here. i was .1 point away from being a member of national honor society.

 

[TecHNooB]

There are some courses where homework is complete bs and some courses where homework is absolutely essential to learning. Either way, homework is an easy grade booster and I don't see why kids complain at all. Maybe at the highschool level it seems like busywork but at the college level its so many easy points you can't complain!

 

[clamum]

And people wonder why education in this country is going down the shitter. :roll:

 

[AmpedSilence]

Originally posted by: Rebasxer
Homework it seems to me is generally pointless. All of the homework I had in school was just busy work. It was basically there to ensure that the kids were reading. But what ended up happening was students would read selectively to get the answers and not cover the rest of the material. Calc homework was the worst, I could always do the problems in class, but when the teacher assigns 40 more for homework I just choose not to do them because I'm not learning anything. I always did fine on Calc tests never dipping below an 80% but got a C- in the class because I didn't do the HW. Not fair.

eh, in my junior year of college i never turned in my Analytcal Chem homework or my P.Chem 2 homework. would usually get 90%+ on the exams, but ended the class with D's in both. Is that fair? It's not like i didn't know what the hell is doing! I was even helping other students get shit right in class!

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
We don't want to send the message to kids, as we have done in some classes, that after you have failed in this class for four weeks, you have no chance of passing at the semester."

What? I have trouble working for the first month or two of school since I'm still in vacation mode, but failing for a third of the semester and still passing?

Heh, didn't quite pick up the ass-hattery of that statement until you pointed it out.

 

[GTaudiophile]

This will only motivate our competition in Europe, China, and India to work harder.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
This will only motivate our competition in Europe, China, and India to work harder.

I don't see why it would motivate them to do anything...

 

[Xavier434]

I gotta say that I kind of agree with this to a point. It may still need some revision but it is better.

Here is the thing. You can do exceptionally well at learning about a particular subject matter but the best thing you can score on a test or homework is a 100 (10 points above the minimum to receive an A). However, if you do exceptionally bad then you can go 60 points below the maximum to get an F. The point here isn't that getting A's should be easier. It is that if you are a student who gets 0/100 on one test but scores 100/100 on another test then you should not have an average score equal to F with still some room to spare. That is incredibly harsh especially considering that even the best students run into circumstances where they have been given 0's in the past for one reason or another.

 

[maziwanka]

this is the better plan. you guys do realize that it still encourages the right behavior.

 

[aplefka]

When did they starting handing out PhDs? What a moron. I thought we were supposed to be doing away with social promotion?

Yet another example of the everybody's special and unique feel-good bullshit that I have luckily always been just a couple years ahead of. If that happened and I was still in high school I'd be pissed (even as a student that only did his homework 75% or more of the time) to the point of raising hell with the administration. That's the equivalent of not coming to work for a few days but instead of not getting paid at all they just pay you half of what you would have made.

Edit: This makes me especially pissed about all the times I had to stay in during lunch or after school do to not completing a homework assignment.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Yet another way to encourage non-accountability.

New School Rule: Skip Homework Still Get Grade

POSTED: 8:47 am CST January 15, 2008
UPDATED: 10:27 am CST January 15, 2008

COUNCIL BLUFFS, Iowa --

"We don't want to send the message to kids, as we have done in some classes, that after you have failed in this class for four weeks, you have no chance of passing at the semester," Bruckner said.


Parents are getting used to the new recommendations.

"I have an 8- and a 10-year-old," said parent Jodi Brown. "And as they excel through school, I would rather have them be held accountable for their actions. If they don't turn in an assignment, I would think they deserve a zero for not completing it."

"I think it's great to give them a second chance to make up for it," said Julie Michalski. "I don't want to see anyone fail, but they need to be held accountable for their work."
.

http://www.kcci.com/news/15052147/detail.html

i agree, hold them accountable. but give them a way to make up the assignments to pull their ass out of the frying pan at least. my oldest has the opportunity to make up missed assignments and get 75% credit, if turned in during the same quarter. so, if she did all her homework the last day and aced it all, she would have a 75% grade for her homework section, which is only 25% of her grade anyway.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
FWIW, This is almost certainly about making sure more kids pass than anything else.

BINGO !! ding ding ding !!!11!1111!!!!!

Any one want to tell the class what that is?

That's righ...t all together.... "No Child Left Behind"....


One size fits all education, just like one size fits all military.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: CPA
Schools are being ass backwards.

We have Zero Tolerance policies for hugging, but Second-Chance policies for not doing your homework.

damn right.


how is KISD doing?

<--- taylor high school alum

 

[aplefka]

Originally posted by: slag

Originally posted by: Citrix
I see the amount of homework my son brings home from the 3rd grade and it pisses me off. his two older sisters went to the same school and the school changed its teaching outline from when they went and they didn't get slammed like this... He brings home stacks of homework now and i can feel his frustration. My wife and I are going to have a meeting with the principal and see what is going on and voice our concerns to her about this overload of homework. from the amount of work he brings home it seems like we are homeschooling him.

I'd be very interested to see what comes from this. They pull the same crap with my son's school (he's in 1st grade, but i see what the 3rd graders bring home because I'm a watchdawg), and its pathetic how much crap they make the kids do.

FWIW, when I was in elementary school, I always had a fair amount of homework, but back then I always did all of it and it helped me out a lot in middle and high school for sure. If your kids are getting a lot of work and you're complaining about it, honestly I feel like you're both people that are contributing to the continuing downfall of public education.

Having worked with kids for the past two years at an elementary school, my experience was always that behavior issues popped up a lot more when parents were openly in disagreement with staff. It's going to backfire when your kids get to high school and feel that a research paper is too much and your argument is out the window because you argued about them having a few too many worksheets in third grade.

 

[aplefka]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Yet another way to encourage non-accountability.

New School Rule: Skip Homework Still Get Grade

POSTED: 8:47 am CST January 15, 2008
UPDATED: 10:27 am CST January 15, 2008

COUNCIL BLUFFS, Iowa --

"We don't want to send the message to kids, as we have done in some classes, that after you have failed in this class for four weeks, you have no chance of passing at the semester," Bruckner said.


Parents are getting used to the new recommendations.

"I have an 8- and a 10-year-old," said parent Jodi Brown. "And as they excel through school, I would rather have them be held accountable for their actions. If they don't turn in an assignment, I would think they deserve a zero for not completing it."

"I think it's great to give them a second chance to make up for it," said Julie Michalski. "I don't want to see anyone fail, but they need to be held accountable for their work."
.

http://www.kcci.com/news/15052147/detail.html

i agree, hold them accountable. but give them a way to make up the assignments to pull their ass out of the frying pan at least. my oldest has the opportunity to make up missed assignments and get 75% credit, if turned in during the same quarter. so, if she did all her homework the last day and aced it all, she would have a 75% grade for her homework section, which is only 25% of her grade anyway.

Yeah, and that's bullshit. How do you think it feels as a kid who did it all on time but got an 85 on it to see a kid who waited a couple months and probably just borrowed the returned work from a friend get a 75? And don't say your daughter is above that, because I'll tell you flat out right now, my parents never would have thought I cheated but hw swapping was a frequent occurrence, especially with teachers who had a policy like this.

 

[maxster]

Make sense.

The whole A-F thing is obsolete anyways. Schools are just sticking with it out of tradition.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: aplefka

Yeah, and that's bullshit. How do you think it feels as a kid who did it all on time but got an 85 on it to see a kid who waited a couple months and probably just borrowed the returned work from a friend get a 75? And don't say your daughter is above that, because I'll tell you flat out right now, my parents never would have thought I cheated but hw swapping was a frequent occurrence, especially with teachers who had a policy like this.

There are pros and cons to each side here but what you need to understand is that it is not worth punishing those who put in honest work by making a system harder for them just because others decide to cheat that system. The real answer is to make the system more reasonable and find better ways to prevent cheaters from cheating. If his daughter cannot understand that while cheating can get you places, it is still a big risk with terrible consequences then he hasn't done his job raising her right which is a whole different issue entirely. All students cheat a little here and there but so do adults in real life situations. Who here hasn't called in sick to work when they weren't really sick but it never comes back to bite them unless they abuse it?

Also, don't let your beef with parents make you biased. I know how parents make the school staff's job difficult but you can't let that get in the way of looking at the whole picture in this situation. This is about the kids who produce honest work and what is fair to them. It isn't about the parents or the cheaters.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: maxster
Make sense.

The whole A-F thing is obsolete anyways. Schools are just sticking with it out of tradition.

What do you propose?

 

[aplefka]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: aplefka

Yeah, and that's bullshit. How do you think it feels as a kid who did it all on time but got an 85 on it to see a kid who waited a couple months and probably just borrowed the returned work from a friend get a 75? And don't say your daughter is above that, because I'll tell you flat out right now, my parents never would have thought I cheated but hw swapping was a frequent occurrence, especially with teachers who had a policy like this.

There are pros and cons to each side here but what you need to understand is that it is not worth punishing those who put in honest work by making a system harder for them just because others decide to cheat that system. The real answer is to make the system more reasonable and find better ways to prevent cheaters from cheating. If his daughter cannot understand that while cheating can get you places, it is still a big risk with terrible consequences then he hasn't done his job raising her right which is a whole different issue entirely. All students cheat a little here and there but so do adults in real life situations. Who here hasn't called in sick to work when they weren't really sick but it never comes back to bite them unless they abuse it?

Also, don't let your beef with parents make you biased. I know how parents make the school staff's job difficult but you can't let that get in the way of looking at the whole picture in this situation. This is about the kids who produce honest work and what is fair to them. It isn't about the parents or the cheaters.

This is true. I just think that as a whole the system is designed to be more friendly to the kids who are screwoffs rather than the kids who get things handled.

Edit: Damn your edit!

I don't have beef with parents in general, just the ones that have borderline students and are alright with their kids being borderline. If his/her daughter thinks it's alright never to do her homework and he's supportive of a system that allows that, then there's something wrong in the home.

Regarding what you said about it being about the honest students, I already wrote my feelings about that before you edited. Maybe I can read your mind? I don't think this is about what is fair to the kids who do honest work at all, because is a kid who does honest work going to miss enough homework that his/her grade will fall to a failing point?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: aplefka

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: aplefka

Yeah, and that's bullshit. How do you think it feels as a kid who did it all on time but got an 85 on it to see a kid who waited a couple months and probably just borrowed the returned work from a friend get a 75? And don't say your daughter is above that, because I'll tell you flat out right now, my parents never would have thought I cheated but hw swapping was a frequent occurrence, especially with teachers who had a policy like this.

There are pros and cons to each side here but what you need to understand is that it is not worth punishing those who put in honest work by making a system harder for them just because others decide to cheat that system. The real answer is to make the system more reasonable and find better ways to prevent cheaters from cheating. If his daughter cannot understand that while cheating can get you places, it is still a big risk with terrible consequences then he hasn't done his job raising her right which is a whole different issue entirely. All students cheat a little here and there but so do adults in real life situations. Who here hasn't called in sick to work when they weren't really sick but it never comes back to bite them unless they abuse it?

This is true. I just think that as a whole the system is designed to be more friendly to the kids who are screwoffs rather than the kids who get things handled.

It's not designed to be more friendly to them. It's just full of holes that need to be plugged and the only people who really get the short end of the stick are the honest students. Gotta solve this problem at the core and find more ways to prevent cheating which do not make it any harder for the honest students.


***EDIT***

Just saw your new post. Ya, we are on the same page here.

 

[OdiN]

what a stupid idea.

I hate homework, but there are other things that can be done.

If I taught, I would give 100% credit for all homework per test period if you got 90% or better on a test. But if you didn't meet that - zip.

So if the class really was below you and you already did know the subject you should do very well.

Only issue would be cheating - but if it's gonna happen it's gonna happen, and there are ways to fix that using multiple test forms and keys so not everyone gets the questions in the same order, etc.

One thing I didn't like in college was attendance-based grading. I had one professor who said you would fail if you missed more than 6 or 7 days. I dropped that class and took it with a different professor - I figure I'm the one paying for the class, and if I don't always show up but can do my work and test well then it shouldn't matter.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: slag
Personally, I feel homework is wrong anyway.

As a child is growing up, they need play time and family time. When I get home from work in the evening, I want those 2-3 hours at most to spend time with my family, not having my kid doing homework.

I've always been against home work.

If they can't teach you everything they need to at school then they need to change how they do so IMO.

Home work is the lazy way out for a teacher IMO.

I agree totally. Teachers whine that they can't teach everything a kid needs to know in the few hours a week they have them in that class, but really, with all the time a kid spends at school, that should be plenty of time to teach them everything they really need to know in the real world.

My kids get home at ~4pm (out at 3:15pm, but we live in a rural area, so they have a ~45min bus-ride home.) I get home from work ~6-7pm. That's 2-3 hours to do homework.

That's plenty of time to have it completed, double-checked, have their room clean, complete their few chores, etc, and have an open evening for a few hours of quality family time before I even walk through the door.

What are your kids doing when they first get home from school? Are they saddled with 3+ hours of homework?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: slag
Personally, I feel homework is wrong anyway.

As a child is growing up, they need play time and family time. When I get home from work in the evening, I want those 2-3 hours at most to spend time with my family, not having my kid doing homework.

I've always been against home work.

If they can't teach you everything they need to at school then they need to change how they do so IMO.

Home work is the lazy way out for a teacher IMO.

I agree totally. Teachers whine that they can't teach everything a kid needs to know in the few hours a week they have them in that class, but really, with all the time a kid spends at school, that should be plenty of time to teach them everything they really need to know in the real world.

My kids get home at ~4pm (out at 3:15pm, but we live in a rural area, so they have a ~45min bus-ride home.) I get home from work ~6-7pm. That's 2-3 hours to do homework.

That's plenty of time to have it completed, double-checked, have their room clean, complete their few chores, etc, and have an open evening for a few hours of quality family time before I even walk through the door.

What are your kids doing when they first get home from school? Are they saddled with 3+ hours of homework?

what? no playstation? no gameboy? no wii? no nintendo? no instant messaging? no wonder... they have time to do their homework

 

[Kev]

Who cares, homework was always useless anyway, and it annoyed me when classes used it for grading.