new school lunch rules

[MagnusTheBrewer]

umm dude these are mandates from the USDA put in place by federal law. they are by no means guidelines.

They are minimums. Only in the corporate world and bureaucratic offices like school food service operations do people think minimums are the goal to strive for.

 

[diesbudt]

I miss the old school cafeteria pizza slices.

ME TOO.

And the "chicken nugget tuesday" my school district had. Best mashed potatoes on this side of the universe.

 

[bignateyk]

A far cry from my highschool days where we had a pizza hut, subway, and taco bell in our lunch room, in addition to the normal school lunch line. 😎

 

[yuchai]

The calorie limit is probably adequate and a good idea for 95+% of students, basically all besides those that do an exceptional amount of sports (think a young Michael Phelps or waggy's kids). To put this into context, a quarter pounder with cheese and medium fries is 900 calories. I have a hard time believing that's not enough food except for very few people. Remember that this is as calorie dense as you get when it comes to food. You can have a lot more food if it has lower fat/carb contents.

The program itself I think is fine, but I would like them to improve it by having a bit more flexibility for those people that do need the extra calories. Fruits & veggies just don't cut it for those people and I think having 0 flexibility there is a mistake.

 

[IronWing]

The kids are probably going through carb withdraw everyday. They load up on chocolate frosted sugar bombs for breakfast and then when they don't get the massive carbs again for lunch heir bodies freak out. When they get home they resume carbing up on chips and crap and their bodies get happy again.

 

[diesbudt]

IF a kid doesn't eat enough at school to last them until dinner. when they get home it becomes Snack-a-thon. THAT is where the issue is. Eating plenty of snacks because one is hungry is a huge gain in calories that casue the issue.

If schools understood this, they could make a better meal set-up. (FYI children - teens need an average of 4000 calories a day, with active teens needing more. If someone needs a diet, a drop to 2000 calories a day is ideal, which case these lunches are perfect for. But since that is the minority...)

I suggest the school doing what it should been all along. TEACHING kids how to eat better/right. Not limit them. That will not teach them. That will just mean when the limit is gone, they can go hog wild.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The calorie limit is probably adequate and a good idea for 95+% of students, basically all besides those that do an exceptional amount of sports (think a young Michael Phelps or waggy's kids). To put this into context, a quarter pounder with cheese and medium fries is 900 calories. I have a hard time believing that's not enough food except for very few people. Remember that this is as calorie dense as you get when it comes to food. You can have a lot more food if it has lower fat/carb contents.

The program itself I think is fine, but I would like them to improve it by having a bit more flexibility for those people that do need the extra calories. Fruits & veggies just don't cut it for those people and I think having 0 flexibility there is a mistake.

This is true. 'Zero tolerance' issues go away when you are no longer dependent on federal money. Of course, that means people have to be willing to support education costs directly. I think that would be much more likely if the government agreed to return tax monies to districts who agreed to fund their own operations.

 

[bignateyk]

IF a kid doesn't eat enough at school to last them until dinner. when they get home it becomes Snack-a-thon. THAT is where the issue is. Eating plenty of snacks because one is hungry is a huge gain in calories that casue the issue.

If schools understood this, they could make a better meal set-up. (FYI children - teens need an average of 4000 calories a day, with active teens needing more. If someone needs a diet, a drop to 2000 calories a day is ideal, which case these lunches are perfect for. But since that is the minority...)

I suggest the school doing what it should been all along. TEACHING kids how to eat better/right. Not limit them. That will not teach them. That will just mean when the limit is gone, they can go hog wild.

If a kid needs that many calories, it's much healthier to eat 5-6 smaller meals a day than 2 or 3 huge ones. A snack after school is perfectly healthy as long as the parent is responsible for the content of the snack.

Also, it's really not the schools job to teach kids how to eat right. Most problems come from parents not teaching their kids to eat right.

 

[diesbudt]

If a kid needs that many calories, it's much healthier to eat 5-6 smaller meals a day than 2 or 3 huge ones. A snack after school is perfectly healthy as long as the parent is responsible for the content of the snack.

Also, it's really not the schools job to teach kids how to eat right. Most problems come from parents not teaching their kids to eat right.

Then it isn't their right to control/limit what a student can have.

Also a child does need that many calories a day until they are done growing. And 5-6 smaller meals would work, however, school lasts 8-9 hours with only the lunch break. Cannot fit 5-6 meals in. That is how our society shaped school/work was through 3 meals a day.

Plus I have actually seen these portions and I can even say they are ridiculous.

 

[bignateyk]

Then it isn't their right to control/limit what a student can have.

Also a child does need that many calories a day until they are done growing. And 5-6 smaller meals would work, however, school lasts 8-9 hours with only the lunch break. Cannot fit 5-6 meals in. That is how our society shaped school/work was through 3 meals a day.

Plus I have actually seen these portions and I can even say they are ridiculous.

The school is responsible to provide healthy meals for students. They should also have healthy snacks available for purchase.

They aren't responsible to teach kids to eat right. They also shouldn't be allowed to take a kids lunch they brought from home.

 

[Xellos2099]

The problem is... making food both tasty and healthy is not easy. My rule, the better it tasty, the worse it is for you. And most disgusting good is most likely good for you. For example, chicken breast is consider healthy by most but making it tasty and keep it healthy is pretty hard since it got no fat content in it.

 

[diesbudt]

The problem is... making food both tasty and healthy is not easy. My rule, the better it tasty, the worse it is for you. And most disgusting good is most likely good for you. For example, chicken breast is consider healthy by most but making it tasty and keep it healthy is pretty hard since it got no fat content in it.

This is sadly more often true than false. Same with price.

As healthiness goes UP, costs goes UP, and taste goes DOWN.
As Healthiness goes DOWN, costs go DOWN, and taste goes UP.

(cost can only be comparable on similar products. Trying to compare a healthy snack like beef jerky ($6 a bag) to a rack of Ribs from a 4* resturant ($22-26) isn't exactly a fair calculation.)

1 trick I used when I dieted was "franks Red hot sauce" 0 calories, has cayenne pepper (small metabolism boost) and tastes good with things like Broccoli and grilled chicken breast and so on. Well to me anyways.

 

[yuchai]

The problem is... making food both tasty and healthy is not easy. My rule, the better it tasty, the worse it is for you. And most disgusting good is most likely good for you. For example, chicken breast is consider healthy by most but making it tasty and keep it healthy is pretty hard since it got no fat content in it.

Making food tasty and healthy is not difficult, it's when you try to make it cheap as well that it becomes challenging.

This is true not only in a school catering setting, and also on an individual level. It's not difficult to make your own food that's tasty and healthy, but it's costly to do so. Not because ingredients are expensive, but because of the time commitment. The last thing I want at the end of a long day at work is to prepare a meal and then also have to clean up afterwards. If you eat out, tasty and healthy usually means it's more expensive.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I believe teaching students to eat right and something about nutrition should be the responsibility of the schools. We've had two generations now that have ignored nutrition and good eating habits due to our business culture and the need for both parents to work.

That means most parents have no better idea of what constitutes a good diet than their children do. Couple that with the majority of Americans having little or no interest in food and you've got the blind leading the blind.

 

[waggy]

This is sadly more often true than false. Same with price.

As healthiness goes UP, costs goes UP, and taste goes DOWN.
As Healthiness goes DOWN, costs go DOWN, and taste goes UP.

(cost can only be comparable on similar products. Trying to compare a healthy snack like beef jerky ($6 a bag) to a rack of Ribs from a 4* resturant ($22-26) isn't exactly a fair calculation.)

1 trick I used when I dieted was "franks Red hot sauce" 0 calories, has cayenne pepper (small metabolism boost) and tastes good with things like Broccoli and grilled chicken breast and so on. Well to me anyways.

i noticed that too. We don't buy much junk food (you gotta have some!). we try to eat healthy.

but man the cost of eating healthy fresh dinner is more expensive then if we bought pre-made crap in the frozen food isle.

as for snacks? We always have (well try to) fresh fruit and veggies. they eat both all the time. My kids love fresh cucumbers and will eat it plan like a big pickle or eat tomato's (usually have them in the garden. this year i didn't plant).

even buying fresh veggies cost MORE then getting a bag of chips. it's frustrating.

I believe teaching students to eat right and something about nutrition should be the responsibility of the schools. We've had two generations now that have ignored nutrition and good eating habits due to our business culture and the need for both parents to work.

That means most parents have no better idea of what constitutes a good diet than their children do. Couple that with the majority of Americans having little or no interest in food and you've got the blind leading the blind.

I agree. i do think kids should have a good nutrition class in school. in health we had a short little BS thing about it.

The good thing about both of my kids sports is they talk about nutrition a lot. At my daughters gymnastics they have a certified nutrition on staff. They talk to the kids every now and then about what they should be eating.

edit: had another though on this. I notice the parents of fatter kids tend to go out a LOT. they go out for dinner 4-5 times a week and rarely eat fresh home made meals.

i make everything fresh (no not packaged shit) and noticed the families that do that more often have kids that are more healthy

 

[diesbudt]

Making food tasty and healthy is not difficult, it's when you try to make it cheap as well that it becomes challenging.

This is true not only in a school catering setting, and also on an individual level. It's not difficult to make your own food that's tasty and healthy, but it's costly to do so. Not because ingredients are expensive, but because of the time commitment. The last thing I want at the end of a long day at work is to prepare a meal and then also have to clean up afterwards. If you eat out, tasty and healthy usually means it's more expensive.

And don't fall into traps like "SUBWAY" being healthy. It is a healthier option, but not the definition of healthy. (FYI their 9-grain wheat bread, is only 1/9 wheat. the other 8 grains are white bread grains.)

(All taken from the book I like to read EAT THIS NOT ---> THAT)

Sure the meats and the veggies... but if you get a foot long and the sauces you put on at the end. With cheese? Easily 1000+ calorie sandwich.

 

[slag]

To be fair you should be able to fill up on 850/700/650 calories at that age level. Boneless/Skinless Chicken breast plus veggies and you're still way under. Granted at some point you hit a cost ceiling.

To be fair, at elementary and middle school ages, they shouldn't really be eating every meal as most adults should. They are still growing, most have metabolisms off the charts, and can afford to eat some fried foods, sugary foods, high carb foods, etc, due to most of them having a non sedentary lifestyle.

 

[diesbudt]

i noticed that too. We don't buy much junk food (you gotta have some!). we try to eat healthy.

but man the cost of eating healthy fresh dinner is more expensive then if we bought pre-made crap in the frozen food isle.

as for snacks? We always have (well try to) fresh fruit and veggies. they eat both all the time. My kids love fresh cucumbers and will eat it plan like a big pickle or eat tomato's (usually have them in the garden. this year i didn't plant).

even buying fresh veggies cost MORE then getting a bag of chips. it's frustrating.

Yea. It is ridiculous. I snack on frozen blueberries, carrots, and 60cal yogurt. Once in a while I have chips, but usually they are light salted tortilla like chips with a good jar of medium salsa.

 

[slag]

And don't fall into traps like "SUBWAY" being healthy. It is a healthier option, but not the definition of healthy. (FYI their 9-grain wheat bread, is only 1/9 wheat. the other 8 grains are white bread grains.)

(All taken from the book I like to read EAT THIS NOT ---> THAT)

Sure the meats and the veggies... but if you get a foot long and the sauces you put on at the end. With cheese? Easily 1000+ calorie sandwich.

What sauces.. Fat free mayo? Salt and pepper with a smidge of oil/vinegar?

My standby is chicken breast with onion, lettuce, bell pepper, tomato, olives, and pickles, with a bit of oil/vinegar and salt/pepper. Hardly "bad" for you, especially when considering the alternatives. ZERO fried items, a decent amount of carbs for energy throughout the day, and I don't get a soda/chips with it.

I just calculated the nutritional info and its 640 calories for a footlong. Considering I have a cup of coffee and an egg or two for breakfast, then this, and a decent supper, I'm still below the 2000-2200 calories I should be eating just to maintain my weight.

 

[piasabird]

You have to be in good shape to dodge the gang bangers and drug dealers on the way to school. What planet are you from? Nowadays you get charged with child endangerment for letting your child go accross the street.

 

[diesbudt]

What sauces.. Fat free mayo? Salt and pepper with a smidge of oil/vinegar?

My standby is chicken breast with onion, lettuce, bell pepper, tomato, olives, and pickles, with a bit of oil/vinegar and salt/pepper. Hardly "bad" for you, especially when considering the alternatives. ZERO fried items, a decent amount of carbs for energy throughout the day, and I don't get a soda/chips with it.

I just calculated the nutritional info and its 640 calories for a footlong. Considering I have a cup of coffee and an egg or two for breakfast, then this, and a decent supper, I'm still below the 2000-2200 calories I should be eating just to maintain my weight.

You are not the norm though. A lot of people go to subway thinking it is healthy. (I mean food is fresher, and overall a healthier option than most fast foods) But these people also order 3 meats, cheese, footlong with bacon, Mayo and so on.

What I just posted is close to 1200 calorie sandwhich. It is all in the options, and its the knowledge you have shown is what people need to learn. Use of the nut. calculators.

 

[zinfamous]

There are important distinctions to make. First, federal guidelines are just that. They are NOT a blueprint that MUST be followed to the letter. Even though the worst districts treat them like they are. Second, school lunches are controlled by the district, individual schools have little input. Third, some districts do very good jobs providing good food for their kids but, they're in the minority.

Finally, the worst school lunch programs out there can be fixed if parents and the community get involved. You see, the worst operations care only about the federal money and their control of it. They don't care what or, if the kids eat as long as the paperwork is processed correctly to ensure funding. If the local district is unresponsive and merely states they're complying with all federal guidelines, you complain to the National School Lunch Program directly.

umm dude these are mandates from the USDA put in place by federal law. they are by no means guidelines.

I think what Magnus is saying is that a lot of how this is implemented depends entirely on the district, and the people involved. Talk of the Nation, yesterday, discussed this topic at length. You can go from one district to the next--students complaining left and right about the food, because it sucks. In Boulder, CO, and other places, however, the students and parents are completely enamored with their system--same recipes, same guidelines, but they have real chefs and cooks that actually know how to cook.

In some communities, you would have unhappy kids and parents that would invite a local person to come in and start preparing the food, that knows even a little bit about how to prepare recipes, that noticed a drastic increase in the kids' happiness.

These are very much guidelines--the various districts will have their own way of implementing them, to widely ranging degrees of success, that swing very closely around the attention that parents and administration devote towards quality.


Also, one strong correlation seems to be that the age of the student matters, quite significantly. Kids that have been through the system up until high school are going to be less receptive and obviously receive far less benefits from the new program (having pumped the horrible food through themselves for over a decade now). Young kids who know only this of school food, will simply come to accept that as standard nutrition, and will be less likely to complain

This truly is the type of program whose benefits can not be accurately quantified within a decade's time.

 

[yuchai]

I believe teaching students to eat right and something about nutrition should be the responsibility of the schools. We've had two generations now that have ignored nutrition and good eating habits due to our business culture and the need for both parents to work.

That means most parents have no better idea of what constitutes a good diet than their children do. Couple that with the majority of Americans having little or no interest in food and you've got the blind leading the blind.

I agree with this. Also, off topic, but they should also teach personal financial management while they're at it.

 

[waggy]

I agree with this. Also, off topic, but they should also teach personal financial management while they're at it.

yeah i agree.

i was amazed when i went to college how many kids had no idea on how to balance a checkbook. or how to make a budget.

 

[Xellos2099]

Making food tasty and healthy is not difficult, it's when you try to make it cheap as well that it becomes challenging.

This is true not only in a school catering setting, and also on an individual level. It's not difficult to make your own food that's tasty and healthy, but it's costly to do so. Not because ingredients are expensive, but because of the time commitment. The last thing I want at the end of a long day at work is to prepare a meal and then also have to clean up afterwards. If you eat out, tasty and healthy usually means it's more expensive.

I dunno, making a chicken breast, moist, tasty, healthy is NOT easy adding cheap is even worse; when overcook it turn into like dry rubber. And I don't expect an average lunch lady can made a perfectly grill chicken breast for $2.20 a lunch