New Samsung 240Hz TV and my HTPC... what's going on?

[Charlie98]

RE: HTPC in sig below.

Just bought a new Samsung 60" 240Hz TV today and am already questioning my purchase... :$ This was to replace the Visio 47" 120Hz TV.

I use 2 movies as a benchmark... BD rip of Casino, and a DVD rip of Star Trek. In both of those streams I experience dropped frames...not all the time but every 10 seconds or so; and, worse, playback will completely gag on some scenes... herky-jerky playback, almost slow-mo, in some spots. But here's the weird part... I can skip back to a scene that gave me problems and replay it... smooth as glass (although with a few dropped frames here and there.)

Both those movies played via disk on my crappy LG BD player... basically 99.9% fine. I'll see a dropped frame here and there, and some muddiness once in a while (which I expect having dealt with it the Visio for the past 6 years, due, I expect, to software acceleration @ 120Hz.)

Netflix.... a few screen tears here and there, but, again, I expect that with Netflix.

I know I have a Sandy Bridge chip running my HTPC, but I have streaming via HDMI through the HD6450, which fixed the dropped frames on the Visio. The HD never goes over 17% CPU activity at any time during playback.

I don't know what to think at this point, and I'm about ready to take the thing back and get the 120Hz Visio 60" I originally went in to buy.

The Samsung is pretty castrated as far as system adjustments go... I can't go in and change the refresh rate like I could with the Visio, so I can't tell if it would work at 120Hz... or even 60.

Anyone have any ideas...?

 

[poofyhairguy]

I would try turning on game mode (which turns off all post-processing) and attempting playback. Then you know if its a setting on the TV.

 

[BeeBoop]

What is the model number of the TV? The 240hz doesn't really tell me anything.

 

[Charlie98]

Samsung UN60H6203AF

 

[SolMiester]

This is the smart TV?, does it have the Plex App?....

 

[Binky]

Do you have the cartoon "features" turned on? I recently bought a Samsung 7150 and I had very similar issues (and a craptastic picture out of the box).

Turn of every setting in the TV that sounds like it's trying to fix something - it's all crap. Anything automatic, compensation, blah blah blah. Once you turn off all the crap, you will see all of those problems disappear.

Your TV is a 120hz model, not 240.

 

[Charlie98]

Do you have the cartoon "features" turned on? I recently bought a Samsung 7150 and I had very similar issues (and a craptastic picture out of the box).

Turn of every setting in the TV that sounds like it's trying to fix something - it's all crap. Anything automatic, compensation, blah blah blah. Once you turn off all the crap, you will see all of those problems disappear.

Your TV is a 120hz model, not 240.

No, it's a 240... the literature even says so as does the Samsung website (see link above.) I'll admit, I was confused, too, because every other model is a 120. I wonder if they just updated the software and magically made it a 240Hz... which is why it isn't doing a very good job.

You turn off all the processing... it becomes a 60Hz TV.

I've pretty much decided to pack it up and take it back... I shouldn't have to struggle to make this damned thing play a movie correctly.

 

[Charlie98]

This is the smart TV?, does it have the Plex App?....

It is 'smart' and Plex isn't already loaded on it, but I can probably fetch it. Why?

 

[Binky]

No, it's a 240... the literature even says so as does the Samsung website (see link above.) I'll admit, I was confused, too, because every other model is a 120. I wonder if they just updated the software and magically made it a 240Hz... which is why it isn't doing a very good job.

You turn off all the processing... it becomes a 60Hz TV.

I've pretty much decided to pack it up and take it back... I shouldn't have to struggle to make this damned thing play a movie correctly.

It's a 60hz or 120hz panel with some "240 clear motion rate" marketing BS layered on top. I believe the current samsung models that are truly 240hz are the 7150/7100 and the 8000.

Turn on gaming mode per poofy's suggestion or set to any other mode and disable all the auto-make-it-better crap. Either way, before you return it, you should really turn off the processing garbage that is most likely causing your issues. The engineers and/or marketing geniuses that set this crap to be the standard settings should be fired.

 

[Charlie98]

It's a 120hz panel with some "240 clear motion rate" marketing BS layered on top.

True... it doesn't actually say... '240Hz.'

Now, that makes me even more upset... and I guess that's why it was $100 cheaper than the Visio 240Hz 60"... makes sense, now.

If I could knock it down to 120Hz and turn off all the processing, I'd probably keep it.... when it's behaving, it has a beautiful picture. Samsung doesn't explain anything in plain English, so I don't really know what I'm turning on or off.

Does 'game mode' drop it down to 60Hz, or 120Hz?

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm unaware of any non-3D HDTV sets that take a true 120Hz input.

 

[Charlie98]

I'm unaware of any non-3D HDTV sets that take a true 120Hz input.

the more I research the more I realize how true that is, and that's not the only problem... :\

 

[wiretap]

You should be using an application to play your movies which changes the output of the HTPC to the native refresh rate of the frame rate that the movie is, i.e. 23.976 / 24 fps ---> TV sets to 24p mode. Most aftermarket media center interface programs support this, such as Kodi, MediaBrowser, etc. You can use MPC-HC and set the option to change the output to 24p upon playback as well. And.. you'll want to turn off all the 120/240 smooth motion stuff on the TV's settings. I found that only decent for watching sports over television. Otherwise you just get dropped frames, lag, and a fake looking picture.

 

[tential]

You should be using an application to play your movies which changes the output of the HTPC to the native refresh rate of the frame rate that the movie is, i.e. 23.976 / 24 fps ---> TV sets to 24p mode. Most aftermarket media center interface programs support this, such as Kodi, MediaBrowser, etc. You can use MPC-HC and set the option to change the output to 24p upon playback as well. And.. you'll want to turn off all the 120/240 smooth motion stuff on the TV's settings. I found that only decent for watching sports over television. Otherwise you just get dropped frames, lag, and a fake looking picture.

I have this option with Kodi. Never use it. I think I'll try it.

 

[wiretap]

The way I see it is, you want to watch the movie the way it was filmed, at the same frame rate. It gives the best cinematic experience in your home.

 

[piasabird]

Almost all new HDTV's have to use customized settings. Samsung has an option in the settings that tries to insert frames to try to make the video playback batter. You can turn that down to almost nothing. Standard video playback is only like 25 frames per second. Anyway you can search for a custom setting profile at some websites. I usually turn the brightness down a little.

 

[bradly1101]

The way I understand it is that 120/240 are marketing terms and apply to the circuitry that is internally processing the digital data, thereby reducing stutter as the TV processes the image (which it sounds like can be turned off). My TV calls it "120hz Clear Motion Rate," not "120hz". It's always 60hz at the input (except I guess for 3D which makes sense since it needs 60hz per eye). 60 looks good to me.

But "120/240" is supposed to reduce stutter.

If you like the picture I'd look at all possibilities. Is your HDMI cable enabled with the requirements of the TV (which would be a handshaking issue)? Is the HTPC running through a receiver? If so have you tried bypassing that?

 

[ivwshane]

This should help you out a little:

http://www.rtings.com/info/fake-ref...otion-rate-vs-sony-motionflow-vs-lg-trumotion

 

[tential]

I would try turning on game mode (which turns off all post-processing) and attempting playback. Then you know if its a setting on the TV.

Did you do this yet OP?
You can also change a setting in Kodi that will tell your TV to change refresh rates to match frame rate.
Works perfectly for my HDTV.

I don't use any post processing at all. Ruins the image for me, I can instantly tell the image is post processed and it just kills me.

 

[Fallen Kell]

The way I understand it is that 120/240 are marketing terms and apply to the circuitry that is internally processing the digital data, thereby reducing stutter as the TV processes the image (which it sounds like can be turned off). My TV calls it "120hz Clear Motion Rate," not "120hz". It's always 60hz at the input (except I guess for 3D which makes sense since it needs 60hz per eye). 60 looks good to me.

But "120/240" is supposed to reduce stutter.

If you like the picture I'd look at all possibilities. Is your HDMI cable enabled with the requirements of the TV (which would be a handshaking issue)? Is the HTPC running through a receiver? If so have you tried bypassing that?

Yep. Pretty much on any TV, 120Hz is just internal rates used to process the images. Some TV's may have panels that actually work at that speed (last few generations of plasma TV's could, but LCD's still have problems with that speed while still having good image quality/viewing angles since only TN panels can do it).

For image processing, 120 is the proper speed to work on everything, since all major video formats use a framerate which is factor of 120 (i.e. broadcast TV is 30 frames per second 120/30 = 4, broadcast HD content is 60 frames per second 120/60=2, and films are 24 frames per second 120/25 = 5). This means that all those different frame rates can be processed correctly by using a 120 internal rate and simply putting the same frame multiple times in a row to scale it to the 120 rate. These frames are then the ones sent to the panel to be displayed, however, the panel itself in most cases can not handle 120 or 240 (I have even seen 480 advertised), so at best, it picks the last full frame available in the buffer, or worst gets the latest frame which tears during the draw cycle, and it isn't certain that the next frame will be the same as the previous frame even if the panel's draw cycle is synchronized with the internal processing bus because in the case of 24 frame film content, each frame of video content is sent to the panel's write buffer 5 times, so every 3rd panel draw will overlap with a change in the actual frame change, resulting in a stutter in the actual film rate if it simply uses the buffer from the last complete frame at the start of the panel draw cycle (since that frame will now have been shown 6 times instead of 5 or 4 times instead of 5 since there the 60hz draw speed can not actually work on 24 frames per second content), or tear the frame during the draw cycle, by showing part of the new frame on the portion of the screen that had not finished the draw.

In other words, if you don't have a 120hz panel, no amount of marketing crap will matter, as it is all just BS. The actual panel simply can't display the video content at that speed.

 

[Binky]

This should help you out a little:

http://www.rtings.com/info/fake-ref...otion-rate-vs-sony-motionflow-vs-lg-trumotion

That page is awesome. What a cluster&$% of marketing BS.

 

[Charlie98]

This should help you out a little:

http://www.rtings.com/info/fake-ref...otion-rate-vs-sony-motionflow-vs-lg-trumotion

Nice article... TY for posting that.

I just realized I didn't update this thread... and I appreciate everyone's input. I did, indeed, box up the Samsung and swapped it for a Visio 60" E-series TV. No, the picture is not as nice as the Samsung, but it at least streams movies without all the problems as the Samsung... and it was $200 cheaper.

Using that link above, I'll go into the settings and further adjust what I have already done and see if I can get the picture any better. That article is spot-on with the shortcomings of the Visio.

It's kind of odd... that article lists their choices of Best Budget 60" TVs... and it's the Samsung and Visio I picked based on my ham-fisted research.

 

[Aikouka]

It's always 60hz at the input (except I guess for 3D which makes sense since it needs 60hz per eye).

HDMI is the main limitation here. The main 3D modes for HDMI are 720p50, 720p60 and 1080p30. For active 3D (i.e. shutter glasses), that rate has to be doubled as each frame must have its own equal share of screen time.