New rig, need suggestions...

[Cuda1447]

Time to upgrade my rig


Currently I have an old gateway 1.7ghz 256 RD ram crappy video card. I'd like to keep it intact and run it as a backup rig just for internet and other things like that.


I want to build a budget/decent gaming rig. Don't want anything TO high end, but I want stuff that'll function for a bit. I don't need 8 gabillion FPS though. I figure I'll buy cheap but working stuff now, and save the money to upgrade sooner, instead of spending alot and upgrading only a short time later.


I figure AMD is the way to go, cheaper processors. No clue on most of the other parts. Ive already got a PSU, and a case.

 

[DaveSimmons]

For longevity without needing to unlock and massively overclock, get an A64 3000+ (about as fast as a P4 3.2C).

 

[Cuda1447]

How much is that and a mobo for that going to cost? Keep in mind I want to save money. So my initial thought was something around the 2.3ghz range.

 

[dartworth]

Does anyone research and use the search button anymore?

Dude just read the forums...this is asked more than 10 times a week.

Lots of good reading here, just search a bit.

 

[newb54]

Whats the most you will spend? What do you want to spend?

 

[Cuda1447]

$500-600

 

[Cuda1447]

ttt

 

[Cuda1447]

tttttttttttttt

 

[Farmer]

Cuda:

VIA K8T800 mobos range from $100-160 for decent ones. ASUS K8VDX is quite a nice option, but costs nearly $160. MSI makes a $98 Neo-FISR with limited extras, but its $98 (Though they seem to have quality control issues. I have one of their Neo-FIS2Rs, not the FISR in question, but it took me one RMA to get a correctly functioning board, and many other people are also experiencing problems with MSI setups).

I'd say stay away form nForce 3 150. Only 600MHz Hypertransport bus.

ASUS K8V Deluxe

You'll also need some fast RAM (2-3-2-6 rated, at least) if you are going to overclock (beware, K8T800 does not feature locked PCI/AGP Bus).

AMD A64 3000+ - $200
ASUS K8V DX - $160
Good Ram - $250
Sum: $610

 

[Cuda1447]

Couldn't I go with an Athlon XP 2500 (OC that if I really want) for way less then 200. Im trying to stay under 600 total and your price wasn't including a video card. In my system right now thats my main bottleneck.


Radeon VE 64mb SUCKS!


Some of the technical stuff you said I don't follow that well. Ive been away from the whole scene for a good 9 months and alot of new stuff has come out. (Plus I didnt fully understand everything when I did follow it).

 

[Tavoc]

Here are some ideas:

Prices approximated from memory from newegg

Mobo: DFI NFII Infinity($93) or Abit NF7-S($90)
CPU: 2500+ Barton Retail ($80)
Video: ATI 9600 XT($150) or 9800 Pro($215)
Memory: Any good quality PC3200 (Kingston, Corsair, Mushkin...) (2x512) or (2x256)

Overclock to 3200+ speeds and your set.

 

[Cuda1447]

How will that system run on the new generation of games?

 

[sd]

it should run new games pretty well for a while. Thats pretty much what I just upgraded to.

 

[Tavoc]

I would guess about 2 years before it becomes annoying to play games on that system. There isnt much upgrading to be done on that system, Socket A is essentially dead already, and AGP will be gone as well by the end of this year. If you are really interested in building a system that will be upgradedable in the future, you need to wait for the new Athlon 64 boards or the new P4 boards this spring, both with PCI express.

 

[redass1876]

if you live near a fry's they have a shuttle board/3GHZ P4 combo right now for 280...on hardcorecooling.com they have pc3200 1GB (2X512) dual channel for $145, GeForce4 Ti4600 is posted in the HotDeals for 120...there is a rig for under 600, unless you need an HD too

 

[Cuda1447]

Naw I got the HD. Why will AGP be out? Whats replacing it?



Also for the TI4600... How's that compare to radeon's 9700/9800 pros?

 

[loafbred]

I think this would make you happy:

Antec SX835II case w/350 watt p/s: $91
Abit NF7-S motherboard: $90
Athlon XP 2400-M Barton: $80
Thermaltake Extreme Volcano 12 cpu cooler: $45
Kingston HyperX PC3200 (2-3-2-6) 2X256MB: $138
Western Digital 7200 rpm SATA 120GB HDD: $106
Sony 48/24/48/16 combo drive: $50
Teac floppy: $12
Sapphire Radeon 9600XT video card: $151

Total: $763

Prices are from NewEgg.com, shipping included.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: loafbred
I think this would make you happy:

Antec SX835II case w/350 watt p/s: $91
Abit NF7-S motherboard: $90
Athlon XP 2400-M Barton: $80
Thermaltake Extreme Volcano 12 cpu cooler: $45
Kingston HyperX PC3200 (2-3-2-6) 2X256MB: $138
Western Digital 7200 rpm SATA 120GB HDD: $106
Sony 48/24/48/16 combo drive: $50
Teac floppy: $12

Total: $612

Prices are from NewEgg.com, shipping included.

No video card? Don't need the PSU got a 350W. Antec. I'll just strip the floppy/cdrw/dvd drives from my current rig and put it in my new one. They are still good. No HD needed either. What will that 2400 Barton OC to? Also how well will that perform for the next year or so? I don't want to have to upgrade again in 6 months. But I don't demand the BEST performance either. Just something solid.

 

[loafbred]

Having the power supply gives you a good choice of cases... just find one you like which has good cooling. Since you don't need any drives, I would get a Radeon 9800 or 9800 Pro video card. A 2400-M Barton cpu should do at least 2.1 GHz (mine will do 2.3, my friend's does 2.1). It's very good for gaming right now. One year from now, who knows?

 

[Tavoc]

I wouldnt spend any money on a third party CPU cooler unless you plan on more extreme OCing, the one that comes with the Retail Barton 2500+ is good enough to get you over 3200+ speed. Also, you might want to consider getting the more powerful 9800 Pro for only 75 bucks more, the 9600XT is a good card, but it would be only adequate for the next round of games like Halflife 2 and Doom 3, and then after that it would probably be inadequate.


PCI Express is going to take over from AGP for graphics cards. It offers greater bandwidth in general, and is being heavily supported by Intel and many mobo manufacturers. Nvidia and ATI will continue to release AGP compatible videocards through the end of the year, but after that I think it will be pretty much dead.

 

[Cuda1447]

How do I know whether or not a case has good cooling? Ive got a case lying around that I can use, stanard ATX case but its pretty small. I doubt the air circulation would be good, but thats just my opinion by looking at it. I have no clue.


The Barton 2500 OC'd to 3100, whats the compare to in Pentium standards?

 

[Cuda1447]

one more bumpage

 

[loafbred]

A case should have at least one 80mm fan in the rear, in addition to the power supply, for decent cooling. Larger fans are better if you can fit them, because they are quieter for the same airflow. The more air the merrier, at least until it gets irritatingly noisy.

I suggested a mobile Barton because they have unlocked multipliers. The new standard desktop Bartons are locked. The mobiles are the same core as any other Barton, but they're tested at their rated speed at lower than normal voltage (1.45 to 1.55) and, as I understand it, their multiplier is throttled by the mobile motherboard's chipset. Mine runs at 2.2 GHz with 1.6v and 2.3 GHz with 1.7v. My friend's runs at 2.1 GHz with 1.65v, and wasn't stable at 2.2 GHz with more voltage, possibly because of his weaker power supply (purely a guess).

As for the speed rating of AMD vs Intel, things changed quite a bit with the release of the i865 chipset and Northwood version of the P IV. It's really hard to compare them now, because software optimisations vary so much. For gaming, a Barton running at 200*11 (3200+ speed) should be approximately equal to a 2.6 GHz Northwood P IV on an 865 or 875 chipset. Nobody who has a 3200+ seems to be complaining about anything, but the P IV will definitely do video and audio encoding much faster, and they usually overclock quite a bit better. As with AMD, some don't overclock well at all, so be prepared for that possibility if you're expecting a sure thing with overclocking. It wouldn't be a bad thing if you got an $80 to $100 Barton and couldn't get above 2.0 GHz... that's still a very fast cpu.

 

[Cuda1447]

So if Im looking to build a machine for gaming into the future, why wouldn't a Pentium be better, since you said yourself its better for video?

 

[loafbred]

Not better for video card performance, but for video encoding. Big files take several hours to encode, and P IV's are a good deal faster. Here's an example:

video encoding benchmarks

If you're looking for more than a couple of years of use from your gaming system, I think you're expecting too much from either brand cpu, and from any video card. No matter what you get, you'll want the next big improvement, some of which is already available (64 bit cpu's, 64 bit operating systems, PCI Express video cards, and on and on). If you want something cheap and fast that will play Halflife2 and Doom3 with all the important features enabled, a Barton running at 2.0 GHz or better with a 9800 or 9800 Pro will not disappoint. We already have games like Max Payne2 and NFS Underground showing how well these components can work. Don't feel like you're risking making a life altering blunder if you don't get the perfect $600 upgrade for the next year or so. If you want to pay the extra money for an Intel with Hyper-Threading and better memory bandwidth, it just might pay in the long run, if you want it to last as long as possible.