New Rig for Gamer / Gfx Artist?

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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Hey all, I'm 17 and I'm looking to build a new machine. little backstory - About a year ago I traded my tower with an amd phenom x4 940, 6gb ddr2, etc for a decent 17" Laptop. Well after about a year now its just not good enough for the stuff I wanna do and the gaming is not really there. So I'm looking for advice aswell as to some answers to questions I have.

Right now I have roughly $500 to spend.

Stuff I already have -
Main HDD - Western Digital Velociraptor 150gb
2ND HDD - Seagate 250GB 7200 RPM Drive
PSU - Rosewill 600W ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182039 )
Monitor - Viewsonic Optiquest 21" 1680x1050
Have a mouse & keyboard
DVD R/W+-
eVGA 9800 GTX+

Here is what I'm looking to buy to just get me up and running and then upgrade from there on out.

CPU - I was first going with a Phenom II X6, but an AM3+ board is a little more expensive, and Sandy Bridge beats them out performance wise and 1155 will be compatible with Ivy Bridge so I've decided to go that route. I won't be overclocking but even under stock settings the unlocked version of the i5-2500 got better scores and the option there is nice,
Intel Core i5-2500K - http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Processo...7412322&sr=1-1

Motherboard -
Motherboard was strictly based off compatibility and price. I'm on a budget and this board seemed to fit just right price and compatibility wise. Ram is also supposedly "P67 Optimized" lol so take that with a grain of sale.
MSI P67A-C43 - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Case -
Choose this one because its in my under $100 range, Has water holes for the future, and more importantly can fit 12" cards without removing any harddrive bays.
Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

RAM -
I'm going with G.Skill just cause of their reputation, I decided to go with ddr3 1333 cause its affordable and works with my mobo for sure, but I choose the X series as it has faster timing and is same price =D
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231426.

I would of love to get the blue version of the Ripjaws X, but there $99 versue $80. They are having a $22 off promo right now on them, but I gotta call and see if they can give me a extended promo code cause I won't be ordering till the 13th or 14th. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231440

I don't really have any major preference on brands so please make any suggestions you have. I know the PSU is weak and the GFX card is now mediocre but those I'll have to live with for a little while. Any and all comments, suggestions, etc are appreciated!

Sincerely,
Kukag
 

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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Thanks for the feedback, I won't have any money til possibly Friday. As far as the DDR3-1600 goes, it seems like some people have said it didn't play nicely with their board and they under clocked it to 1333? In general not that specific ram, do you know anything about that? And would you strongly recommend I go with DDR3-1600.

Thanks,
Kukag
 

betasub

Platinum Member
Mar 22, 2006
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^ No need to pay extra for 1600-rated RAM, as there's no real performance benefit with SandyBridge (and it doesn't influence overclocking either). If it is a similar price to the 1333-rated RAM, then sure, go for it - and run it at your choice of 1600 or 1333 BIOS setting, whichever plays the nicer :)
 

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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Which do you think would be better? 1333 with faster timings or 1600 with slower timings?

Also in general is it ok to put two harddrives next to eachother in your harddrive bays? Will it cause the drives to heat faster / more?

Thanks,
Kukag
 

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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Which do you think would be better? 1333 with faster timings or 1600 with slower timings?

Timings are relative to clock speeds, whereas bandwidth scales linearly with clock. For example, DDR3 1600 CAS 9 is 5.625ns and DDR3 1333 CAS 7 is 5.38ns. However, DDR3 1600 has 20% more bandwidth. Not that it really matter either way though.

Also in general is it ok to put two harddrives next to eachother in your harddrive bays? Will it cause the drives to heat faster / more?

It's fine as long as you have reasonable airflow.
 

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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Timings are relative to clock speeds, whereas bandwidth scales linearly with clock. For example, DDR3 1600 CAS 9 is 5.625ns and DDR3 1333 CAS 7 is 5.38ns. However, DDR3 1600 has 20% more bandwidth. Not that it really matter either way though.

Ok so does that mean overclocking DDR3 1333 will also let the bandwith scale with it? Or does bandwith scale only on the set clock? Also how did you get the 5.625? and what is ns?

It's fine as long as you have reasonable airflow.

Great thank you very much for all the help, please see my few questions above!
Sincerely,
George
 

dac7nco

Senior member
Jun 7, 2009
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Ok so does that mean overclocking DDR3 1333 will also let the bandwith scale with it? Or does bandwith scale only on the set clock? Also how did you get the 5.625? and what is ns?

Hi, George. Bandwidth is the amount of data that can be transmitted in a given time. "ns" refers to nanoseconds, which is the access time. Lowering access times ("tightening timings") is just about the last thing people do when perfecting a build. Bandwidth can be compared thusly: Imagine an air jet moving the same atmosphere at 1333 vs 1600 rotations per minute... unless you are on a SERIOUS deadline, it doesn't matter. If you're doing graphics design, you'll want to maximize your RAM; 2x4 sticks is great, and that'll hold you fine, and give you the option of more when you feel the need.

When you later feel a need, we'll help you un-neuter that CPU of yours.:biggrin:

Welcome to the Anandtech Forum.
Daimon

Edit: Don't worry about memory speeds & timings for now; get it built, and feed it air.
 
Last edited:

betasub

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Mar 22, 2006
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^ Yes, there's plenty of technical stuff behind the transfer of data to/from memory, and only a few years ago tweaking timings was still relevant to performance & overclocking. I definitely agree that having sufficient (capacity/GB), compatible (voltage & base speed) RAM is far more important now.
 

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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lol, can you help me neuter my cat first? =D

Awesome read, thank you guys very much for the help. Hopefully I'll get all the parts in by 1 week from today. Its unfortunate because I love Newegg and their customer support, but Amazon has same prices with free 2 day shipping (prime free trial) and no tax. So anyway, thanks again everyone and you will definitely be seeing me around here more!

Sincerely,
Kukag
 

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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www.mfenn.com
Hi, George. Bandwidth is the amount of data that can be transmitted in a given time. "ns" refers to nanoseconds, which is the access time. Lowering access times ("tightening timings") is just about the last thing people do when perfecting a build. Bandwidth can be compared thusly: Imagine an air jet moving the same atmosphere at 1333 vs 1600 rotations per minute... unless you are on a SERIOUS deadline, it doesn't matter. If you're doing graphics design, you'll want to maximize your RAM; 2x4 sticks is great, and that'll hold you fine, and give you the option of more when you feel the need.

When you later feel a need, we'll help you un-neuter that CPU of yours.:biggrin:

Welcome to the Anandtech Forum.
Daimon

Edit: Don't worry about memory speeds & timings for now; get it built, and feed it air.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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Took your advice and was able to order the blue G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3 1333 CAS 7. Very excited as I should have the remaining bit of money hopefully by friday if Karaktu receives my laptop and I'll order the rest and let ya guys know how it goes!

Maybe you can help me out with another question..

I'm getting the Intel Core i5-2500K and decided to go with a better motherboard the mSI P67A-G43 (B3) motherboard as it seems a little nicer and has two PCIE slots for the future. Now I will only be using an eVGA 9800GTX+ video card which is I'd say very midrange - low end for todays standards. So will overclocking my cpu from 3.3ghz to say 4.0+ increase my fps a decent amount? Or am I looking at very minimal gains?

Thank you very much again for all the info!
Sincerely,
George
 

betasub

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Mar 22, 2006
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will overclocking my cpu from 3.3ghz to say 4.0+ increase my fps a decent amount? Or am I looking at very minimal gains?

Only in the most CPU-limited circumstances (e.g. ultra-low res, or a CPU-heavy game) will there be much difference. In many games you'll simply be GPU-limited by the old 9800GTX+. Nevertheless, to improve dips to minimum fps & help smoothness, that "free" CPU-overclock shouldn't be ignored! :)
 

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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Ok I'll be running the stock cooler for a little while til I buy a CM 212, then I'll try overclocking =D It'll be my first time so I'm a bit nervous so you'll see a couple posts by me asking for help when the time comes!

Thanks a bunch!
George
 

mfenn

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Jan 17, 2010
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Took your advice and was able to order the blue G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3 1333 CAS 7. Very excited as I should have the remaining bit of money hopefully by friday if Karaktu receives my laptop and I'll order the rest and let ya guys know how it goes!

I guess you misinterpreted our advice a bit. :oops: What we were really suggesting is that you should buy the least expensive DDR3 1333 CAS 9 like this G.Skill for $60 because the speed and timings don't really matter. Sorry about that.

Maybe you can help me out with another question..

I'm getting the Intel Core i5-2500K and decided to go with a better motherboard the mSI P67A-G43 (B3) motherboard as it seems a little nicer and has two PCIE slots for the future. Now I will only be using an eVGA 9800GTX+ video card which is I'd say very midrange - low end for todays standards. So will overclocking my cpu from 3.3ghz to say 4.0+ increase my fps a decent amount? Or am I looking at very minimal gains?

The 9800GTX+ is squarely on the low-end of the spectrum today. Like betasub said, you're not going to see any gains (in gaming) from overclocking the CPU because the GPU is underpowered.
 

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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I guess you misinterpreted our advice a bit. :oops: What we were really suggesting is that you should buy the least expensive DDR3 1333 CAS 9 like this G.Skill for $60 because the speed and timings don't really matter. Sorry about that.



The 9800GTX+ is squarely on the low-end of the spectrum today. Like betasub said, you're not going to see any gains (in gaming) from overclocking the CPU because the GPU is underpowered.

Hmm I guess I did, lol =D well its not a big deal, the ram looks awesome and will go nicely with the rest of my parts. And ya I assumed the gfx card was ehh but thats the only thing I could manage to get at the time, hopefully a 6870 or something nicer is in my near future =D I'll continue to update this as I progress!

Thanks again!
Sincerely,
Kukag
 

Morg.

Senior member
Mar 18, 2011
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Not overclocking a 2500k is a crime I hope you will pay for, some day.
MSI is bad, it's the only hardware maker I ever had TWO motherboards from that died after one year without any tweaking. -> take gigabyte, p67 around 100bucks, it's perfect for you.
G.Skill is no more reputable than many others in the field, and as you're buying shitram (read extremely low-tech compared to current available stuff), might as well go for the cheapest of the acceptable brands.
Even if you still had your phenom cpu, the best upgrade would definitely be the GPU -
Also coolermaster is not your best choice here at all, consider antec one hundred, it does the job and it's clearly cheaper.
Also, don't buy from Amazon, they suck big time.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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G.Skill is no more reputable than many others in the field, and as you're buying shitram (read extremely low-tech compared to current available stuff), might as well go for the cheapest of the acceptable brands.
I respectfully disagree. Gskill is fine RAM. ShitRAM is where you have to have 1.65v or more, just for standard speeds and timings.
 

Morg.

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Mar 18, 2011
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My explanation is clear : read extremely low-tech compared to current available stuff

In Extenso, cheap mainstream RAM, has nothing to do with high-tech OC RAM of DOOM that costs a fkton and is only available in really "better" kind from some makers.

Cheap mainstream stuff is something you can get from any *decent provider, as listed above (although for basic stuff you could go as far as A-data and other nonames), and there is no good reason to turn to G.Skill for that.

Shitram = specced to basic stuff of lastgen pc's, common mainstream cheap stuff I put in my NAS, like DDR3 1333
 

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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Hmm let me try to dissect your response 1 thing at a time, before that I do appreciate your suggestions & concern but here is my reasoning behind it....

I'm for sure getting the CM 690 II Advanced for a couple reasons. Its a pretty nice size case, I don't want something small like a Antec 100. And besides the CM looks far better than the Antec. CM also has holes for water cooling, room to put a radiator on the bottom, etc etc.

As far as RAM goes. This is not my only computer and my dad actually worked for 2 different companies for numerous years as their Tech Support. G.Skill has never let us down. The G.Skill I bought had received good ratings, it was at a quicker timing, and many said they had no problem overclocking the ram to DDR3 1600.

Finally my CPU. Whether I overclock or not did not seem like a big deal. I would love to overclock my CPU but I'm on a budget and a aftermarket HSF is not on the list yet, and I definitely want to have adequate cooling before I go and put more stress on my main component.

Lastly my motherboard. I have had a couple MSI boards and nothing but good things to say. Along with contacting a few friends who even recommended MSI cause they said they heard good thing about their P67 motherboards. So for anyone alone to say a certain brand is no good, is a completely useless statement.

So ya maybe this will help explain my decisions further, as far as any suggestions for you go, I might suggest coming off a little friendlier? I felt like I was almost writing this reply in defense mode versus for a discussion. So anyway like I said above thank you for your input and thoughts, I do appreciate all of the input I can get but I just felt some of your statements were over the top and unjustified.

Thanks again and if you'd like to further explain, please do! I'm not responding with any sort of anger just simply letting you know how I feel and I hope none of this comes off in the wrong way!
-George
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
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My explanation is clear : read extremely low-tech compared to current available stuff

In Extenso, cheap mainstream RAM, has nothing to do with high-tech OC RAM of DOOM that costs a fkton and is only available in really "better" kind from some makers.

Cheap mainstream stuff is something you can get from any *decent provider, as listed above (although for basic stuff you could go as far as A-data and other nonames), and there is no good reason to turn to G.Skill for that.

Shitram = specced to basic stuff of lastgen pc's, common mainstream cheap stuff I put in my NAS, like DDR3 1333

I don't know where you get off claiming that slower, ("normal speed/timing") RAM is "low-tech", whereas overclocked, overvolted, expensive gaming RAM is "high-tech". It's the same damn technology used to manufacture the chips.

Besides, there's no real benefit to faster (faster than 1600) RAM with an SB system.
 

dac7nco

Senior member
Jun 7, 2009
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My explanation is clear : read extremely low-tech compared to current available stuff...Shitram = specced to basic stuff of lastgen pc's, common mainstream cheap stuff I put in my NAS, like DDR3 1333

I feel sorry for your data. The spec is 1.5 volts, and no higher. 1066C7 and 1333C9@1.5v are the standards for a stable system. The 1.65v stuff is tolerated, but not ideal. 1.5v+ RAM is either inflated for "Eleet-Nezz" benchmarks, or didn't make the grade at spec. Less than 1.5v, EG 1.35v/1.25v is encouraged. "ShitRAM" (shakes head) is the last thing you want in your NAS... stability (integrity) should be your primary goal. Your "high-tech" RAM, at 2200/C10@1.65v is out of spec, and behind the times. 1600/C6/1.3v, on the other hand...

The specs for Nehalem G1 (X58/LGA-1366) were laid out by Intel to NOT exceed 1.65v... "performance" memory manufacturers took this to mean that 1.65 to be the norm. There is a reason you don't find ECC server DDR3 above 1.5v.

Daimon
 

Kukag

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Jul 20, 2009
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Agree with mfenn on the Amazon topic as well. Let alone I'm saying $40+ in tax, so thats also cool =D

-Kukag