new rig! 72 wagoneer

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herm0016

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
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i just bought a 72' Wagoneer in pretty nice shape. 360 V8.
6 in blocks in the back and cut up leaf springs for spacers with a axle flip from above to below the springs in the front. I am ordering new springs with the lift already in them for the front. 5 new wheels and tires came with it.

changed oil and greased everything today.
pics:

IMG00128.jpg

IMG00129.jpg

IMG00154.jpg
 
K

kornphlake

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2003
1,567
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I was just talking to a co-worker about the wagoneer yesterday, looks like a good find. On an unrelated note; You really need to clean the lens on your camera.
 
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Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,158
59
91
Nice rig! (other than the lift blocks) Good call on ordering lift springs instead...blocks aren't safe.
 
herm0016

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,516
1,128
126
pics taken with phone. I think i will be keeping the blocks in the rear for a while. the new springs for the front will be somewhere near 300 bucks for custom made. the blocks look pretty sturdy, cast iron. I am going to have the local shop check all the pinion angles and such to make sure everything is right. I do not have the facilities/tools to do such a thing in the parking lot at the apartment. lol.

This is my first lifted/off road orientated truck. I know a lot about going fast and engines but am inexperienced in off road tech. I need to do a lot of research about shocks, the steering geometry, 4 wheel drive maintenance, cleaning/packing/rebuilding the locking hubs on the front. If anyone here is skilled in these areas let me know.
Why do you say blocks are un-safe? I can see that they may not be as stable as a spring but if installed correctly I believe that they work fine.
 
Bignate603

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
herm0016 said:
pics taken with phone. I think i will be keeping the blocks in the rear for a while. the new springs for the front will be somewhere near 300 bucks for custom made. the blocks look pretty sturdy, cast iron. I am going to have the local shop check all the pinion angles and such to make sure everything is right. I do not have the facilities/tools to do such a thing in the parking lot at the apartment. lol.

This is my first lifted/off road orientated truck. I know a lot about going fast and engines but am inexperienced in off road tech. I need to do a lot of research about shocks, the steering geometry, 4 wheel drive maintenance, cleaning/packing/rebuilding the locking hubs on the front. If anyone here is skilled in these areas let me know.
Why do you say blocks are un-safe? I can see that they may not be as stable as a spring but if installed correctly I believe that they work fine.
Click to expand...

Axle wrap from lift blocks can really destroy your springs. The taller the blocks the worse it is and 6" blocks are pretty darn tall. Also, the blocks can lead to wheel hop. A properly set up block can be relatively safe but personally I'd do what I could to keep the lift blocks as small as possible.

Also, if the blocks are 6" tall you're riding quite a bit higher than 6" over stock. The stock axle is normally above the spring. Moving it below the spring lifts the vehicles noticeably. If you add 6" blocks that's got to be around 10" total of lift. Depending on what you want to do that may be WAY more lift than you need or want. For many things more lift does not = better. Someone that's smart with how they upgrade and drive their vehicle can get to places that most trucks with massive lifts can't. With a taller vehicle you're more likely to encounter driveline issues because of the angles and you're less stable than a lower vehicle.

If you're buying new springs you may actually want to bring it down a few inches to let you go to shorter blocks to reduce the wheel hop and axle wrap, get you some more stability, and to reduce driveline angles. Again, this depends on what you want to do with this, different kinds of offroading make you want different things.
 
herm0016

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,516
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I am only getting new springs for the front at this point. i do not think the total lift is 10in because the front is just flipped and about 2 inches added with add a leafs and cut up springs. the blocks in the back look like 6in, but i will measure and take a few pics tomorrow. i like the overall stance and height, it actually lines up with the hood/roof of most modern pickups at this height.
 
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Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,158
59
91
Bignate603 said:
Axle wrap from lift blocks can really destroy your springs. The taller the blocks the worse it is and 6" blocks are pretty darn tall. Also, the blocks can lead to wheel hop. A properly set up block can be relatively safe but personally I'd do what I could to keep the lift blocks as small as possible.

Also, if the blocks are 6" tall you're riding quite a bit higher than 6" over stock. The stock axle is normally above the spring. Moving it below the spring lifts the vehicles noticeably. If you add 6" blocks that's got to be around 10" total of lift. Depending on what you want to do that may be WAY more lift than you need or want. For many things more lift does not = better. Someone that's smart with how they upgrade and drive their vehicle can get to places that most trucks with massive lifts can't. With a taller vehicle you're more likely to encounter driveline issues because of the angles and you're less stable than a lower vehicle.

If you're buying new springs you may actually want to bring it down a few inches to let you go to shorter blocks to reduce the wheel hop and axle wrap, get you some more stability, and to reduce driveline angles. Again, this depends on what you want to do with this, different kinds of offroading make you want different things.
Click to expand...
Going to have to disagree/correct something here:

First, if you have 6" blocks, your ride height is going to be EXACTLY 6" higher than what it would be without them. They don't make your springs arch any more...they simply move their mounting point higher.

The reason they're unsafe....just look at them, compared to the stock setup. The U-bolts. Much, much longer than the stock U-bolts. U-bolts keep the springs clamped to the axle tube. The truck is designed to be safe with U-bolts that are stock length and thickness.

With blocks like you have, they're 6" longer, and no thicker. They are getting rocked back and forth all the time while driving.....back when you accelerate, to the forward when you decel......and this can also break your leaf springs to boot. Lots more leverage the driveshaft has on the springs by spacing them away from the axle like that.

So, the block itself can break, the springs can break, and the U-bolts can break.
 
Bignate603

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Pacfanweb said:
Going to have to disagree/correct something here:

First, if you have 6" blocks, your ride height is going to be EXACTLY 6" higher than what it would be without them. They don't make your springs arch any more...they simply move their mounting point higher.

The reason they're unsafe....just look at them, compared to the stock setup. The U-bolts. Much, much longer than the stock U-bolts. U-bolts keep the springs clamped to the axle tube. The truck is designed to be safe with U-bolts that are stock length and thickness.

With blocks like you have, they're 6" longer, and no thicker. They are getting rocked back and forth all the time while driving.....back when you accelerate, to the forward when you decel......and this can also break your leaf springs to boot. Lots more leverage the driveshaft has on the springs by spacing them away from the axle like that.

So, the block itself can break, the springs can break, and the U-bolts can break.
Click to expand...

I checked around and the bolded part is correct. I had thought the wagoneer was a spring under axle suspension in the rear from the factory like my CJ, a picture of my rear axle and spring is below. Using a lift block on a spring under axle suspension would require moving the spring below the axle which would give you a few inches of height right there.

IMG_0072.jpg


After looking around I found that the rear on a wagoneer came as a spring over axle setup, so a 6" block will give 6" of lift.

I still stand by the rest of what I said though which I think you agreed with in your post, axle wrap and wheel hop are bad side effects of excessively tall lift blocks.
 
herm0016

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,516
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i just came to post that. it was spring over axle orig. so it is only 6in of lift. I probably will replace the blocks with springs eventually, but want to get the front suspension done first.
 
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Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,158
59
91
Nate, tell us about your CJ, or start a thread on it with pics. I'm currently building one.

And yes, I assumed it was already spring-over......going from under to over would give you 6" by itself, without the blocks.
 
Bignate603

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Pacfanweb said:
Nate, tell us about your CJ, or start a thread on it with pics. I'm currently building one.

And yes, I assumed it was already spring-over......going from under to over would give you 6" by itself, without the blocks.
Click to expand...

Done, check the new thread about my CJ.
 
herm0016

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,516
1,128
126
the jeep is loaded and headed to a Michigan for a heart and lung transplant. 6.0 or 6.2 L with 6L80E is in its future.



new leaf springs front and back are also installed. Did not get to have much fun with it before the engine decided to give up at random times.
 
herm0016

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,516
1,128
126
amish said:
awesome! if you don't mind me asking, how much is it going to set you back in total? are you doing other mods to it?
Click to expand...

ill let you know. lol. . . probably do the axles too. a pair of dana 60s, gears, high steer, $$$$$$.
 
Raizinman

Raizinman

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2007
2,355
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meettomy.site
Around 72/73 was the year they put Quadra-Trac transfer cases in these vehicles? Does yours have this? I can't tell you how many Quadra-Trac chains I replaced. They tend to stretch and start slapping on the transfer case. It gets real noisy and after a while can damage the case.
 
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