New Receiver wanted - Home network Audio/Itunes etc

[Claudius-07]

So I have been working on automating my home for lights, fireplace, smart thermostat etc., etc. Everything runs well for now, thank you Kaido for some ideas on smart switches and remotes.

Now my wife is home office, which is upstairs in our home. We purchased a Sonos Play:1 for her small office. She loves, it, she control it from her iPhone, can play her millions of songs from iTunes library/network shares, Apple Play, Pandora etc. Now she wants one in the first floor, our main floor which has my living room etc., entertainment room so she can, if she is downstairs, do the same thing she does upstairs, which is listen to her music.

Here's my issue: She thinks that for the downstairs we should get a Sonos Play:5 which in Canada is like $549. Our home theater consists of a 65" TV, an HD-PRV box from Rogers, an HTPC with Kodi that I built that I cannot live without... and a PS3. This all plugs in to a very basic soundbar and then out to my TV. All controlled by a Harmony 1100 remote. Very simple… not buggy and takes up very little space – no massive wires or cables sticking out etc.

If she wants to listen to music in our room downstairs she needs to have the Soundbar on, the TV on the HTPC on and Kodi running and accessing Internet audio or our shared drives for music etc.

My point is that if we are to spend $549 for a Sonos 5 in the living room... and this would be ONLY for the sole purpose of listening to music... why not upgrade the basic soundbar I have now that is kinda acting like a hub to something that does what the Sonos does (i.e. it's networked and supports music streaming either from Internet radio or streaming sources or our internal network shares) but also would "enhance” and upgrade my TV movie watching with stuff like DTD-HD, Atmos, 7.2, yada yada (I have speakers and subwoofer already sitting doing nothing in the basement).

I read that Denon has receivers that are "smart" and have an app that kinda works like the Sonos that allows her to control JUST the receiver with her iPhone and play music etc. Is that possible? did i read wrong? I assume Pioneer or Onkyo and everyone else must have these newer receivers that can connect to our network shares or online streaming/Internet radio channels etc?

 

[Kaido]

As long as you don't need multi-room sync, you have a lot of possibilities. The thing that SONOS excels at is if you're playing music in two or more rooms, you get a 1:1 sync due to their proprietary wireless mesh network. When you're syncing multiple rooms via traditional networking (wired or wireless), you introduce lag (in the milliseconds) and your ear can very clearly hear when it's off. If you don't require multi-room sync & just want to send to one room at a time, the possibilities open up quite a bit.

If iPhone control is the key element, then an Airplay-compatible target is all you need. Basically, Airplay is a piece of software that can act as an audio receiver for your iPhone to send music to. Originally, Apple offered it in the form of hardware as an Airport Express box for $99:

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MC414LL/A/airport-express

Then knockoffs came out for a cheaper price. You can plug these into a set of computer speakers, stereo, or 5.1 surround-sound system. However, since you're already running KODI - you already have an Airplay target built in!

http://kodi.wiki/view/AirPlay

https://www.tvaddons.ag/airplay-kodi/

I haven't used KODI in awhile, but go open it up & go into System > Settings > Services > AirPlay and set it to "on" (or check the box or whatever) to allow KODI to receive Airplay content & see if your KODI player shows up in the Airplay list on her iPhone. If that works, then you should be all set if she just wants to stream stuff from her iPhone wireless to the speakers!

 

[Kaido]

I read that Denon has receivers that are "smart" and have an app that kinda works like the Sonos that allows her to control JUST the receiver with her iPhone and play music etc. Is that possible? did i read wrong? I assume Pioneer or Onkyo and everyone else must have these newer receivers that can connect to our network shares or online streaming/Internet radio channels etc?

Yes, a lot of manufacturers offer an app for control. For example, Onkyo's networked receivers let you control the apps on the receiver (ex. Spotify & Pandora), act as a remote control for stuff like volume, and on some models, stream the local iPhone content:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/onkyo-remote-3/id927243793?mt=8

Alternatively, you can get a Logitech Harmony Home controller, which lets you use your iPhone to control home theater devices universally. $120 on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmony-Home-Control-Devices/dp/B00N3RFC4G/

Zillions of options available. Like, if you go the KODI route (sending audio from the iPhone to the KODI box via Airplay), you can use Apple's Remote app for iPhone to remotely-control the iTunes library on the computer:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/remote/id284417350?mt=8

 

[Claudius-07]

Sigh my head hurts. So I bought a Wink Hub. That is mainly for lights and the fireplace, my Ecobee etc. You linked the Logitech Harmony Home. Dang that looks nice. You would think I could do something with my 1100 but nooooo. It's like the Onkyo 635 and 808 I have not being used. All fantastic but dont work with anything "apple" and airplay and Apple Play and Padora.. arg sigh.

I have Kodi and love it but the whole point is that my wife does NOT want to turn on a receiver, a Tv and a HTPC just to listen to music. So far with Kodi, as much as I love it for TV and movies and that's what it's for, I would think she would need to have all of those on to play her itunes music. I noted years ago the AirPlay feature as you linked available in XBMC(now kodi) and had succesfully used it to "push" whatever was playing on her phone onto the XBMC/kodi box and outputted through the speakers while looking at it through the TV.

I guess my point is she loves the Sonos and says...ohhhh look it's one unit, nothing complicated and I don't want to fiddle with 3-4 devices to get just my playlist of Beiber songs to play

NB: just to reiterate and I don't know why everything is underlined Jesus... the whole concept is not to have everything on like all the components on for her to listen to JUST our network music. You are right, Sonos does a great job for that and yah i never considered, that she might actually want to have a sonos upstairs and sonos downstairs playing the same music at the same time and if I have different things going it would have lag and make it all sound weird. True enough. Sigh.

 

[Kaido]

Yup, and that's the catch - SONOS makes it super easy & has the best wireless sync system on the market, but they charge you for it!

If all she wants to do is just easily play songs in the second room, then you might consider picking up a second Sonos Play:1 to complement the home theater setup. Not as big as the Play:5, but less than half the price and if you stick it close to where she normally sits, problem solved :awe:

Sometimes I think multi-room audio is more complex than home automation is

 

[poofyhairguy]

Sigh my head hurts. So I bought a Wink Hub. That is mainly for lights and the fireplace, my Ecobee etc. You linked the Logitech Harmony Home. Dang that looks nice. You would think I could do something with my 1100 but nooooo. It's like the Onkyo 635 and 808 I have not being used. All fantastic but dont work with anything "apple" and airplay and Apple Play and Padora.. arg sigh.

I have Kodi and love it but the whole point is that my wife does NOT want to turn on a receiver, a Tv and a HTPC just to listen to music. So far with Kodi, as much as I love it for TV and movies and that's what it's for, I would think she would need to have all of those on to play her itunes music. I noted years ago the AirPlay feature as you linked available in XBMC(now kodi) and had succesfully used it to "push" whatever was playing on her phone onto the XBMC/kodi box and outputted through the speakers while looking at it through the TV.

I guess my point is she loves the Sonos and says...ohhhh look it's one unit, nothing complicated and I don't want to fiddle with 3-4 devices to get just my playlist of Beiber songs to play

I feel you bro. My solution was Chromecast Audio. That solution:

-uses the speakers you already have in place for Kodi
-allows for synced multi room audio
-is easily controlled via the music app on your device
-costs a tenth of what the Sonos solution costs

Heck, my newest receiver even has native Spotify support and I don't use it because the Chromecast is easier. Especially if you have a Harmony so you can easily setup a "music" macro (turn on AV reciever, change to Chromecast input) is it hard to beat the Chromecast for $35. Downside is Apple stuff isn't going to work as well with it. For that you have to pay the Sonos tax.

 

[Claudius-07]

Lol ok so Kaido my wife agrees.... Let's get a simple sonos play:1 for the first floor. It's so small or portable really we can move and hook it up on our deck outside for an afternoon if we hang outside. I mean we will consider the Sonos 3 for about $100 more but maybe the 1 is all we need.
Poofy: ok I am going to bite. Gona pick up a Chromecast as I just want to play with it. I have been rocking a xbmc/kodi for so many years from kodibuntu to Windows version to android to Linux ext. Willing to try anything. Love to test shit. Still doubt nothing beats my windows kodi setup with harmony remote. I know you love the chromecast or Shield.

 

[Claudius-07]

Wait sorry. The chromecast I am confused now. If I currently have a receiver, tv and htpc running kodi controlled by a harmony remote, what advantage does a chrome cast do for me? You mentioned hooking it up to my receiver. I was to a hook one up in my office for sun but I think I am missing your point for the main point.

 

[Kaido]

Wait sorry. The chromecast I am confused now. If I currently have a receiver, tv and htpc running kodi controlled by a harmony remote, what advantage does a chrome cast do for me? You mentioned hooking it up to my receiver. I was to a hook one up in my office for sun but I think I am missing your point for the main point.

The point he was trying to make was that you could reduce it to a two-step process:

1. Program your HT setup to have a one-touch Harmony button to turn on the speakers & switch the input to the Chromecast
2. Stream your music to the Chromecast from your iPhone

The catch is that the Chromecast doesn't have AirPlay, so it doesn't send audio universally - only from Cast-enabled apps. Also, the multi-room playback gets out of sync (for a variety of reasons, but it simply lacks the wireless mesh networking feature that SONOS has). The benefits are that it is super cheap, always on, and you can tweak the lag to get pretty close.

In your case, this would be a good zero-cost solution if you simply skipped the Chromecast & used KODI instead...setup a macro function on your Harmony to turn on the speakers & switch the receiver input to the KODI box (assuming you leave it booted & running 24/7), then use the iPhone to stream to it using Airplay (using native app audio or the Remote app to control an iTunes library). But, that's still an extra step on top of just using a SONOS box.

SONOS makes it easy. You just have to pay for the convenience :biggrin:

 

[poofyhairguy]

The point he was trying to make was that you could reduce it to a two-step process:

1. Program your HT setup to have a one-touch Harmony button to turn on the speakers & switch the input to the Chromecast
2. Stream your music to the Chromecast from your iPhone

Yeah exactly. It lets you use the speakers you have in place. I have a Kodi setup in almost every room, and it is nice to use those speakers already in place without turning the associated TV on. The audio sync works pretty good once tuned as well, especially for a $35 device.

It is not a perfect solution for everyone, but I thought it worth mentioning. Most of my music/podcast apps are Chromecast compatible.

I have been rocking a xbmc/kodi for so many years from kodibuntu to Windows version to android to Linux ext. Willing to try anything. Love to test shit. Still doubt nothing beats my windows kodi setup with harmony remote. I know you love the chromecast or Shield.

Sounds right up my alley. There is nothing I prize more than a well setup Kodi HTPC and associated remote. The Shield or something like Kodibuntu is great to have, but nothing beats a tricked out Windows Kodi setup. I just recently got my MadVR settings perfect, and that 750 ti I recently bought is doing such a good job upscaling 720p content that I swear it's like I got a new tv.

It is always good to test new shit.

 

[Claudius-07]

Thanks guys! Ok I just realized I really have not been using Kodi's music feature to its fullest by any means. I also just remembered that I have the official remote app installed on her ipad. That thing, which I have not used in for ever, acts as a "tv" of sorts as you can see your tv shows/movies/music. You can control your Kodi box right from that. I will need to see how I can play with that and see if she can do it all right from the app. I currently have the Kodi box to sleep if not used and turns on automatically when needed. Will play with that and will test the Airplay feature, see which we like better. Wicked!

Poofy: you mentioned the 750ti? I have the GTX 650 and was actually thinking of trying out the 750ti. I had the original 430... still have it in a box somewhere. I actually was reading up on the 750ti for MadVR. It's the one thing I never bothered with, the MadVR as after years of asking my wife, is this better or this? How about this? And now this? and in all cases she always said... it all looks the same to me so I just gave up in doing anything other than the default that we get with XBMC. I have played with hardware vs software, deinterlacing, post-processing, video scaling methods more than actually watching movies. That's what my wife says so I just stopped LOL. Wonder what nifty things I could get myself into with MadVR

 

[Kaido]

Thanks guys! Ok I just realized I really have not been using Kodi's music feature to its fullest by any means. I also just remembered that I have the official remote app installed on her ipad. That thing, which I have not used in for ever, acts as a "tv" of sorts as you can see your tv shows/movies/music. You can control your Kodi box right from that. I will need to see how I can play with that and see if she can do it all right from the app. I currently have the Kodi box to sleep if not used and turns on automatically when needed. Will play with that and will test the Airplay feature, see which we like better. Wicked!

Poofy: you mentioned the 750ti? I have the GTX 650 and was actually thinking of trying out the 750ti. I had the original 430... still have it in a box somewhere. I actually was reading up on the 750ti for MadVR. It's the one thing I never bothered with, the MadVR as after years of asking my wife, is this better or this? How about this? And now this? and in all cases she always said... it all looks the same to me so I just gave up in doing anything other than the default that we get with XBMC. I have played with hardware vs software, deinterlacing, post-processing, video scaling methods more than actually watching movies. That's what my wife says so I just stopped LOL. Wonder what nifty things I could get myself into with MadVR

Just throwing this out as an option, Zotac has a nice little box that you can leave on all the time (uses a 15-watt dual-core i5 laptop processor), but has a GTX860m video card in it. No OS, but comes with 8GB RAM & a 1TB HDD for $579 shipped:

http://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-dual-core-Barebone-System-ZBOX-EN760-P-U/dp/B00LATIY6C/

 

[Beer4Me]

I have a Denon AVR-E400. Supports the App from iPhone where you can control the receiver. In addition, the receiver itself natively supports Pandora and Spotify (Internet Radio), so the apps are actually built into the receiver. The receiver also supports Airplay, so from any room in the house I can stream iTunes, Pandora, whatever video or audio to it. The receiver also supports DLNA. Since your wife has iPhone, Airplay is your answer. It just works.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Thanks guys! Ok I just realized I really have not been using Kodi's music feature to its fullest by any means. I also just remembered that I have the official remote app installed on her ipad. That thing, which I have not used in for ever, acts as a "tv" of sorts as you can see your tv shows/movies/music. You can control your Kodi box right from that. I will need to see how I can play with that and see if she can do it all right from the app. I currently have the Kodi box to sleep if not used and turns on automatically when needed. Will play with that and will test the Airplay feature, see which we like better. Wicked!

The next version of Kodi (16.0) will have a major upgrade for the music stuff.

Poofy: you mentioned the 750ti? I have the GTX 650 and was actually thinking of trying out the 750ti.

I would hold off a little, from what I understand Nvidia is going to put out a replacement soon -because I just bought one of course . With my current settings the 750 ti runs at 80% of its power (which means the fan stays on blast). I would wait to get a little more power for the money (and hopefully a quieter card).

I will probably replace the 750 ti myself in less than a year.

I had the original 430... still have it in a box somewhere. I actually was reading up on the 750ti for MadVR. It's the one thing I never bothered with, the MadVR as after years of asking my wife, is this better or this? How about this? And now this? and in all cases she always said... it all looks the same to me so I just gave up in doing anything other than the default that we get with XBMC. I have played with hardware vs software, deinterlacing, post-processing, video scaling methods more than actually watching movies. That's what my wife says so I just stopped LOL. Wonder what nifty things I could get myself into with MadVR

The main benefit I see with MadVR (via DS Player) is with 720p and 480p content. The upscaling that you can get goes far far beyond what Kodi provides by default. Especially with 720p stuff, I can make it look as good as 1080p content.

My wife notices that, but it doesn't make her life easier so she only cares somewhat. What SHE really likes about MadVR is Reclock. She is very picky about audio sync issues (like when the lips don't match the audio) and given my diverse library she constantly had to play with the audio offset in the Kodi menu to keep things lined up. With Reclock running it automatically syncs the audio to playback no matter what FPS the content is in. It is magic.

Of course there is more fun to be had in Kodi than MadVR too if you have a decent GPU. I recently finally configured Rom Collection Browser how I want, and I can use Kodi to select and play any Gamecube or Wii game I ever owned. It is very very slick.