New Pull and used 16GB Optane are inexpensive now.

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Noticing on ebay 16GB Optane (both used and New pull) are available for under $12 shipped.

Seems like a really good opportunity for those with more than one M.2 NVMe slot and a supported chipset.

EDIT: Some Game load time results below from the following Tweaktown review:

https://www.tweaktown.com/articles/8661/best-ssd-gaming-over-120-ssds-tested/index2.html

We paired all Optane Memory (cache) drives with a Seagate BarraCuda Pro 12TB HDD.
8661_33_best-ssd-gaming-over-120-ssds-tested.png


The 16GB Optane module does well.
 
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thor23

Member
Jul 13, 2019
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Yup I picked up a cheap 2nd hand 16Gb one on ebay, using it to cache my sata3 ssd with primocache through a pcie 1x slot, getting a hitrate of 90-95% easy with very low overhead from primocache.

Optane+SSD
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 6.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2018 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : https://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) : 778.924 MB/s
Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) : 152.735 MB/s
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 8,T= 8) : 760.510 MB/s [ 185671.4 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 8,T= 8) : 154.520 MB/s [ 37724.6 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 476.163 MB/s [ 116250.7 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 154.202 MB/s [ 37647.0 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 163.904 MB/s [ 40015.6 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 85.815 MB/s [ 20950.9 IOPS]

Test : 1024 MiB [C: 12.2% (23.7/193.6 GiB)] (x5) [Interval=5 sec]
Date : 2019/07/24 18:17:53
OS : Windows 10 [10.0 Build 18362] (x64)

SSD only

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 6.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2018 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : https://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) : 552.442 MB/s
Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) : 478.827 MB/s
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 8,T= 8) : 219.707 MB/s [ 53639.4 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 8,T= 8) : 282.583 MB/s [ 68990.0 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 218.333 MB/s [ 53304.0 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 220.334 MB/s [ 53792.5 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 30.860 MB/s [ 7534.2 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 92.158 MB/s [ 22499.5 IOPS]

Test : 1024 MiB [C: 12.2% (23.7/193.6 GiB)] (x5) [Interval=5 sec]
Date : 2019/07/24 18:26:40
OS : Windows 10 [10.0 Build 18362] (x64)


I'm using a readonly cache so the write speeds don't matter for me, and the read speeds are vastly superior to my ssd in all benches especially 1Q1T 4k reads.
 

thor23

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Jul 13, 2019
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btw you don't need an intel chipset/cpu to run optane, you only need that if you want to run intel's caching software. On my Ryzen 2600 system it just shows up as a blank 16Gb disk in disk management then I dedicated it to primocache, I think it works with storemi too.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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I use Primocache too. Works great.

AMD StoreMI also works, but there are at least two things to consider:

1. 16GB Optane is a very small capacity for software (auto-tiering) that moves blocks rather than copying them. Changing the read I/O promotion to slow should help but I am still concerned that 16GB would still be too small.

2. Using NVMe for AMD StoreMI fast tier has been known to have serious problems in certain overclocked systems --> https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...riot-scorch-256gb-nvme.2561802/#post-39819989

( I suppose if someone wanted to experiment with 16GB Optane and AMD StoreMI the safest bet would be 1.) Stock speed speed system 2.) Read I/O promotion policy set to slow 3.) Use Secondary drive*(rather than primary drive) for the auto-tiered volume. )

*Perhaps use with primary drive is workable if it is a SATA SSD rather than a SATA HDD.
 
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thor23

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Jul 13, 2019
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Well the 16Gb might be too slow for writes for storemi, it's better suited as a readonly cache. 16Gb is enough for my OS install easy, but I have all my games on a different disk so my OS drive only needs about 4Gb in reality. A 32Gb module or higher would be better for heavy gamers.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Would be interesting to also see load times (with and without Optane cache) where hard drives were filled 75% to capacity (maybe 90% to capacity as well) before installing the benchmark.
 
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arandomguy

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Sep 3, 2013
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Is there any caching type of software that allows a cache to be a single partition of a drive?

For instance if we take a 64GB Optane drive and split it into 2 x 32GB partitions. 1 partition is used as a regular drive (perhaps for the OS). 1 partition is then used as cache for other drives.
 

aigomorla

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using a nvme on a 16gb is an absolute waste unless your running nothing on your SATA ports as most boards will deactivate 2 sata ports per nvme slot you use.

So i highly do not recommend you doing this, unless your running an Intel board that is either optane ready and your running a very limited (1--2) magnetic spinner, as your far better having those sata ports or getting a larger nvme drive.
 
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thor23

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You can get away fine with just using a pcie 1x port with the 16Gb optane which is how I run it(my budget board doesn't have any m.2 slots anyway).
16Gb is more than enough if you're just accelerating your os drive and not your games drive(my OS drive only uses 25Gb on my ssd with just a web browser and a bunch of utilities/hardware monitoring apps and only needs 6Gb optane cache to get a 90%+ hitrate).
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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using a nvme on a 16gb is an absolute waste unless your running nothing on your SATA ports as most boards will deactivate 2 sata ports per nvme slot you use.

So i highly do not recommend you doing this, unless your running an Intel board that is either optane ready and your running a very limited (1--2) magnetic spinner, as your far better having those sata ports or getting a larger nvme drive.

Using 16GB optane and a NVMe NAND SSD in M2_1 and M2_2 of a motherboard with supported chipset should result in four SATA ports. Example below:

index.php

(The above chart taken from page 33 of the MSI Z270 Gaming Pro Carbon Manual ---> https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/Z270-GAMING-PRO-CARBON#down-manual )

And doing the same thing using this ASRock B360 board would actually result in 5 SATA ports. (reason: M2_2 is only PCIe 3.0 x2)
 
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aigomorla

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Nah im fairly sure that is wrong.
On an intel board it kills 2 ports.
So for example i have 8 ports.. or 8 places where i can plug sata drives to.
Occupying one will eat up port 1-2.
Occupying two will eat up 3-4

So if i had 2 nvme's plugged in, i would lose 1-4 and only have 5-8 working.
Unless Gigabyte and ASUS are being extremely cheap with sata ports, because i have tested this on both x299 boards.

Hence why i have my second NVme run straight off a PCI-E card since i have 44 pci-e lanes and only 2 gpu's, and even downright looking for a expansion card which can bootup on multiple NVme's using a single pci-e slot.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Nah im fairly sure that is wrong.
On an intel board it kills 2 ports.
So for example i have 8 ports.. or 8 places where i can plug sata drives to.
Occupying one will eat up port 1-2.
Occupying two will eat up 3-4

So if i had 2 nvme's plugged in, i would lose 1-4 and only have 5-8 working.
Unless Gigabyte and ASUS are being extremely cheap with sata ports, because i have tested this on both x299 boards.

Hence why i have my second NVme run straight off a PCI-E card since i have 44 pci-e lanes and only 2 gpu's, and even downright looking for a expansion card which can bootup on multiple NVme's using a single pci-e slot.

That is first time I have heard occupying M2_1 with NVMe disabling SATA ports. What boards are these?
 

aigomorla

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That is first time I have heard occupying M2_1 with NVMe disabling SATA ports. What boards are these?

GB Auros Gaming 5 7 9
ASUS DELUX , STRIX, RAMPAGE...
This is on x299..

Here is another thread on the B350 saying the same thing.
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?95186-ROG-Strix-B350-M-2-disables-SATA-Ports-5-and-6
3*The M.2 Socket shares bandwidth with the SATA6G_5/6 ports, therefore the SATA6G_5/6 ports cannot be used when a SATA/PCIE mode M.2 device is installed

So im guessing ASUS and GIGGY are a bit stingy with sata ports? :eek:

But i am guessing more because a NVMe requires PCI-e lanes, and hence disables the PCI-E lane associated with those 2 sata ports.
I guess it would be different if it was mSATA installed.
 
Last edited:

cbn

Lifer
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GB Auros Gaming 5 7 9
ASUS DELUX , STRIX, RAMPAGE...
This is on x299..

Here is a page from the Gigabyte Aorus X299 Gaming 7 manual:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X299-AORUS-Gaming-7-rev-10/support#support-manual

https://d2aw00qtgn0pb6.cloudfront.net/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-x299-aorus-gaming-7_e.pdf

Screenshot-14.png


So no SATA ports affected by NVMe in M2P_32G......and, in fact, there is even enough PCie lanes so a second NVMe can be installed in M2M_32G


P.S. Here is the link for ASUS Prime X299 Deluxe II

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-X299-DELUXE-II/specifications/

* 3. The M.2_1 socket shares bandwidth with SATA_2 port when using M.2 SATA devices. Adjust BIOS settings to use a SATA device.

^^^^^ So no mention of NVMe affecting SATA ports when used in M2_1

I didn't see a note for NVMe in M2_1 affecting SATA for X299 Strix or Rampage either:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X299-E-GAMING/specifications/

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-RAMPAGE-VI-EXTREME/specifications/
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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and im saying that is wrong.. lol....
because it clearly disables my SATA port when i plug it in, unless im using the wrong M.2 port.

Did you read the ROG thread i linked?
The manual says the same exact thing, yet another user is reporting the loss of their sata port.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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and im saying that is wrong.. lol....
because it clearly disables my SATA port when i plug it in, unless im using the wrong M.2 port.

Maybe you are using the wrong M.2 because if you look back on that page for Aorus 7 if the third M2 is used with NVMe it will disable SATA ports.

(It is possible for an M2 on that X299 to disable SATA.....but just not on the first two M2 when a NVMe is installed.)

Did you read the ROG thread i linked?
The manual says the same exact thing, yet another user is reporting the loss of their sata port.

That is true.....but it is an AMD board.
 
Last edited:

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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That is true.....but it is an AMD board.

Yeah but its written basically by the same idiots....
I think all manuals are written by the same idiots, which is why i dont even use them anymore unless im desperate.
RTFM doesn't apply anymore because its where some of the miscommunications begin.

lol...

It kills 2 sata ports, and not 1 like most manuals state.
I also thought it only killed one, but no matter how hard i tried, i could not get it to not kill 2 on a NVMe.

Again possibly if it was mSATA, then i could of probably only lost 1, but on NVMe's i always end up eatting 2, hence why i had to move my second nvme onto the pci-e card and run it through the slot directly.

Anyhow i'll try it again later, and see if i am using the wrong NVMe slot.
But im fairly certain i dont lose 1 sata port but 2, when it says i should lose 1, and 0 on the correct M.2 slot.
:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

arandomguy

Senior member
Sep 3, 2013
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Yeah primocache does that

Thanks I'll have to look into it. I wonder how much of a CPU impact primocache would have as I understand it operates on a higher level compared to something like Intel's RST. I did some brief research and some accounts have suggested that in certain situations for some users there was a slowdown because of it?

I remember bringing up that type of support for Intels own RST and also the ability to cache for more than one drive. They added the latter I wonder if they'll do the former as well eventually. It'd be interesting to compare system responsiveness of an optane caching a bunch of SATA SSDs vs a NVMe SSD.

My original storage plan was something like -

1x128GB-256GB optane split into a 2 partitions. 1 for the OS/a few frequent apps self managed (eg. I might be only playing 1 game). 1 partition for cache. Rest a mix of SATA SSDs and a HDD (eventual phase out).
 

thor23

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Jul 13, 2019
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No noticable cpu impact, can use a lot of ram if you choose a low block size for the cache but I just run my cache with 16k blocksize and it only uses 110Mb RAM all up.
As for using it to cache a sata ssd I'm doing that and for example booting off the ssd without the cache enabled windows will spend aboput 0.5s at the login screen whereas with the optane cache enabled it just goes straight to desktop because it boots too fast for the login screen to display(I have autologin enabled - netplwiz).
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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@cbn So i was playing around with my M.2 slots and i think you are correct.
There is 1 slot which is located right smack under my primary gpu where a pci-e slot should be.
It was hell moving a NVMe in there for testing, and as stated it does not affect any of my sata ports.

However it introduces a new can of worms as in heat.
Since it sits right smack below my primary gpu, and my gpu is watercooled, it lacks a lot of airflow to it, so hot spot + NVMe = u get my point.

But i guess this applies to all board where the NVMe is sitting on the PCI-E slot.

So for reference..
2017052415411438_big.png


The top (right below the CPU) and bottom (right below the chipset) both eat up SATA ports.
2 each to be exact...

The middle (right below the primary gpu slot) does not.
I now need to try this out on my Asus boards i have later on, as i never used that slot because again, its a new can of worms since it sits under the primary GPU.
 

jrichrds

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I get the same large drop in write performance when pairing 16GB Optane M10 with SATA SSD. I understand the Optane by itself has poor write speeds, but if it's a read-only cache, why would it affect the write speed when paired with a SATA SSD? Or is that just a benchmark anomaly with CrystalDiskMark and actual write performance is as fast as the SATA SSD will go?

I'm using mine with Intel Optane/RST software.

Yup I picked up a cheap 2nd hand 16Gb one on ebay, using it to cache my sata3 ssd with primocache through a pcie 1x slot, getting a hitrate of 90-95% easy with very low overhead from primocache.

Optane+SSD
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 6.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2018 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : https://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) : 778.924 MB/s
Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) : 152.735 MB/s
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 8,T= 8) : 760.510 MB/s [ 185671.4 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 8,T= 8) : 154.520 MB/s [ 37724.6 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 476.163 MB/s [ 116250.7 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 154.202 MB/s [ 37647.0 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 163.904 MB/s [ 40015.6 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 85.815 MB/s [ 20950.9 IOPS]

Test : 1024 MiB [C: 12.2% (23.7/193.6 GiB)] (x5) [Interval=5 sec]
Date : 2019/07/24 18:17:53
OS : Windows 10 [10.0 Build 18362] (x64)

SSD only

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 6.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2018 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : https://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) : 552.442 MB/s
Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) : 478.827 MB/s
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 8,T= 8) : 219.707 MB/s [ 53639.4 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 8,T= 8) : 282.583 MB/s [ 68990.0 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 218.333 MB/s [ 53304.0 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) : 220.334 MB/s [ 53792.5 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 30.860 MB/s [ 7534.2 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) : 92.158 MB/s [ 22499.5 IOPS]

Test : 1024 MiB [C: 12.2% (23.7/193.6 GiB)] (x5) [Interval=5 sec]
Date : 2019/07/24 18:26:40
OS : Windows 10 [10.0 Build 18362] (x64)


I'm using a readonly cache so the write speeds don't matter for me, and the read speeds are vastly superior to my ssd in all benches especially 1Q1T 4k reads.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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Can you use an Optane Memory device (16/32GB) with StorMI on B450, on something other than the primary NVMe slot? For example, a rig might have a 512GB HP EX920 NVMe in the primary / only NVMe socket on a B450 Tomahawk board. Could I plug an Optane Memory device into one of those $4 (already bought a few from a China-seller on ebay) mechanical PCI-E x4 to M.2 NVMe boards, and plug it into the secondary GPU slot, and use it using StorMI to cache/accelerate a SATA SSD plugged into one of the board's four (?) SATA ports?

Given the price of the Optane module ($12 for 16GB, as claimed earlier in the thread, although I haven't personally checked ebay yet), and the mechanical PCI-E slot adapter ($4-5 ea.), would it be worth it?

Or possibly, to set up a dedicated Linux install, onto an NVMe (you could do it without a swap partition, probably, to fit Linux into 16GB).
 

nosirrahx

Senior member
Mar 24, 2018
304
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I've got a bunch of 16GB Optane modules pulled from laptops that I rebuilt with 800Ps. For a time a 2TB SATA SSD and 58GB 800P were both faster (on the 4KQ1T1 side) and cheaper than a good 2TB NVMe drive. It was a pain finding laptops with Optane support though.

I've been using them in charity builds (HDD + 16HB optane). I have a mountain of laptop HDDs and laptop RAM left over from upgrades. I can essentially build a decent system from a base model NUC + Optane, a HDD and used RAM. Even the License keys for windows are reused.

I built 4 systems this way in NUC8i3BEH kits. Since all I am actually buying is the NUC the whole system is ~$300. There is no way I am ever going to use these HDDs, RAM or Optane modules so this is about as good as it gets when it comes to putting them to good use.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Given the price of the Optane module ($12 for 16GB, as claimed earlier in the thread, although I haven't personally checked ebay yet), and the mechanical PCI-E slot adapter ($4-5 ea.), would it be worth it?

Man, that's not an easy question to answer. The Optane Memory sticks are considered as a regular NVMe drive, so I guess if it works with NVMe SSDs, it'll work with it too.

But who knows? Expanding slots that way is unconventional. You'll have to try to see if it works. It's almost like buying riser cards for crypto mining. Some just doesn't work properly.

Tell us how it goes?