New Programmer here, advice for preparation

[TechAZ]

Hi everyone. I'm starting out the college thing at almost 30. At the moment I'm in at a Community College for Programming/Database Analysis. I'm just curious to those who are in the field for Software Development/Programming what you can suggest to do.

The program Adviser here doesn't seem very knowledgeable and is very vague whenever I ask for suggestions on classes to take, things to help prepare, etc. So I'm turning to AT here. Should I continue at the Community College or just skip right into a University for BS? Any thing you could recommend in any aspect of my choice of career path? It's what I'm going to do, I've made my mind up with that. Very interested, very motivated.....just looking for a little direction.

Thanks for any info.

 

[esun]

There are some community college classes that transfer well to four-year colleges. For example, algorithms, data structures, computer organization, things like that. Other classes, most notably classes labeled as a specific programming language, are probably ones to avoid. You want topics and ideas, not languages generally.

You'll also want some math classes like linear algebra and differential equations, which are probably offered by your CC. Discrete math would also be useful, but I'm not sure how common that is at CCs.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: esun
There are some community college classes that transfer well to four-year colleges. For example, algorithms, data structures, computer organization, things like that. Other classes, most notably classes labeled as a specific programming language, are probably ones to avoid. You want topics and ideas, not languages generally.

You'll also want some math classes like linear algebra and differential equations, which are probably offered by your CC. Discrete math would also be useful, but I'm not sure how common that is at CCs.

Agreed, and you'll also want to get ahold of some tools and start programming, if you haven't.

 

[aCynic2]

There are various sub-fields within computer programming: databases, graphics, networks and communications, artificial intelligence, etc.

Pick a specialty you like. Focus your electives on it. Become an authority.

In line with Markbnj, if you have the extra resources, get a Linux box up and running. You can get a C++ compiler easily (gcc), a java compiler if that is what you wish, pascal (underrated and no longer a contender) and others.

If that's not an option, get VS express or OpenWatcom.

 

[manko]

I don't mean to hijack, but I'm in a similar boat. I have a couple degrees in non-tech areas, but I've just started an Object-Oriented Programming Java course at the local CC. I've been working in web development, mainly self-taught PHP/MySQL for the past few years, but I wanted to get a better grounding in general programming. I'm also thinking about looking into C# and C++ later on. Reading the previous posts though, it sounds like maybe I shouldn't be focused on the languages.

Is it possible and what would type of courses or accelerated program would you recommend to get entry-level, employable software engineering skills, without going through a full 4 year program? The time and expense for that is a bit daunting, plus I already have general education requirements from my other degree. And frankly, the cost and years put into my previous higher education haven't paid off as well as I would have liked, so I'm wary of jumping into yet another long, expensive program. I would prefer to get some focused, practical training if that would let me get my foot in the door.

Or is a full BS the only way to go? In line with the original poster's question, am I wasting time taking a few semesters of courses at the CC and should I skip that and try to get into to a full degree program as soon as possible? It sounds like I may just be putting off the inevitable and have to re-take some of the programming courses again anyway if I do end up in a degree program.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[EagleKeeper]

For cost wise, take as many computer courses at tha local CC/JC as possible.

This will get you a decent basis to plan forward.
You can then also get a good feeling of what "sub-field"/area that interests you the most.

Leverage that knowledge if you desire to the 4 yr school (if needed).

As others stated, the degree program should take some of the courses from the CC/JC.
You will still need other classes for a full degree (unless you already have one).

Another option, if you do not need the degree, is to now continue to take IT related couses at the 4yr school as part of the continuing education program.

Hopefully the JC will have a employment referal/coop program thatcan help you get a foot in the door with local employers.


And congrats for heading back after 10+ years away.:thumbsup:

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: aCynic2
There are various sub-fields within computer programming: databases, graphics, networks and communications, artificial intelligence, etc.

Pick a specialty you like. Focus your electives on it. Become an authority.

Eh... your initial education in CS should be a lot more general than that. Gotta learn to crawl before you can walk.

EDIT: To expand on that, my education didn't tailor me to what I do now (real-time systems), but if you come in at an entry-level position, they don't expect you to be an expert

 

[Markbnj]

Manko, those companies that require a degree don't usually care what field it is in. If they are hiring programmers for an IT department the degree requirement is typically an HR policy, and what they are really looking for is demonstrated skills, experience, and team compatibility.

That's the corp. IT sector. There are also lots of packaged software OEMs, hosted service operators, game developers, and at those places the degree requirements are even more flexible (typically), but the skill requirements are more stringent. You'll be competing with young geeks who do this stuff 14 hours a day.

Then there is a layer of very formalized development in mil-spec operations for DoD, systems surrounding command and control, utilities, transportation, etc. In those cases the degree requirements may be CS, and it may not be negotiable, for better or worse. These shops want people fully conversant with disciplined engineering practices.

Probably the fastest route to work is to learn and demonstrate competence in a popular web application development platform, i.e. pHp, java, or ASP.Net. Probably ASP.Net is the most in demand at the corporate level. The fastest way to do this is to develop and deploy your own application. You can rent a server from various parties for a few tens of dollars a month. If you choose ASP.Net I would focus your academic efforts on obtaining Microsoft Certs. There's a lot of debate over their real value, but for a guy entering in as you are I don't think it's an open question: they'll help. Regardless of academic pursuits, expect to spend a year really learning how to develop applications in the framework of choice, and then several additional years in entry-level employment building your salary base back up.

 

[TechAZ]

Thanks for the input so far guys.

At the moment I'm taking VB.NET just to get my feet wet and get in the right mind frame for what lies ahead. I plan on taking C#, Java, C++ for sure at a University as far as languages to learn. I've pretty much made my mind up to just take general transferable classes at the CC and move on to a get a BS degree in Comp Sci or whatever there is out there now for development/programming.

Just wish the prog adviser at the CC here was more helpful, even the VB.NET instructor seems kind of incompetent.

 

[manko]

Thanks for all the advice. That's a lot of useful information for me to consider and it will help me to focus my future plans.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: TechAZ
...

Just wish the prog adviser at the CC here was more helpful, even the VB.NET instructor seems kind of incompetent.

There are usually three types of instructors in any field.

Industry professionals that know their stuff but can not communicate if teaching it. They teach as a moonlighter for additional $$, the status of saying they are a university teacher or because it allows them access to the educational system for their own advancement.

Teaching professionals that are filling in because the system does not have people that are fully qualified to teach the subject, so anyone that can spell the target of the course gets tossed in to teach from a course book.

A combination of the two - if you get one, suck them dry for their knowledge.

 

[stash]

Mark, when you say Microsoft certs, are you talking about MCSA/MCSE, or developer certs like MCSD/MCAD?