Question New Power Supply Standards and what that means for "consumer" PC's running 24/7

[cellarnoise]

With the relatively new Power Supply standards coming soon for GPUs and new CPUs, at a "consumer" ATXe or whatever level, does anyone have any recommendations for purchasing a new Gold or better level power supply? I am now really only interested in Platinum or above, but advice is welcome!

I have been doing some research, and on this total forum and on others there is not much yet, besides look for the new GPU standards being supported.

 

[Tech Junky]

Platinum or above

I don't really buy into this making much of a difference other than the increased upfront costs to buy one.

It's depends on the amount of power you need along with all of he other components in the system.

For price though 850W runs about $100 for a 80 Gold w/ a 10 year warranty. Keep in mind it's not using 850W unless your system is maxed out and running the GPU at 100%. When things are idle the power use goes down to what's needed. I use an 850W PSU in all of my builds because it's a sweet spot for cost / performance / warranty and leaves room to grow into it even using a 12700K setup. I don't run a GPU in this system but, have run dual GPU's in the past using a similar setup. The issue tough coming soon is the new GPU's that have power connectors / ratings for 600W. At that point aiming for 1000W PSU would be necessary and that bumps the price to at least $200. Add the marketing for platinum/titanium/(some other rare metal name) and the costs go up to make you feel special.

 

[mindless1]

Let the future take care of itself. If you need a PSU, buy what you need for the parts you have. If you don't, don't.

Like Tech Junky, I feel like 750W-850W Gold is the sweet spot, though coming out of the Covid era, these in major brands might settle down to sale price points of $70 or so instead of $100+. Hard to speculate with inflation the way it is.

 

[Icecold]

For price though 850W runs about $100 for a 80 Gold w/ a 10 year warranty. Keep in mind it's not using 850W unless your system is maxed out and running the GPU at 100%. When things are idle the power use goes down to what's needed. I use an 850W PSU in all of my builds because it's a sweet spot for cost / performance / warranty and leaves room to grow into it even using a 12700K setup. I don't run a GPU in this system but, have run dual GPU's in the past using a similar setup. The issue tough coming soon is the new GPU's that have power connectors / ratings for 600W. At that point aiming for 1000W PSU would be necessary and that bumps the price to at least $200. Add the marketing for platinum/titanium/(some other rare metal name) and the costs go up to make you feel special.

There's a 1000 watt Super Flower Leadex Platinum SE Platinum on Newegg right now for $165 after promo code which seems like a solid price for what it is. Being that this is the distributed computing subforum though the power supply would likely be at a large load(100% CPU and GPU) a significant portion of the time, so it makes sense to spend the extra on a more efficient power supply considering more efficiency means less heat for your air conditioning to have to cool, etc.

@cellarnoise I don't have much input though on how to best future proof your PSU purchase other than purchasing one that is more powerful than you expect needing, and getting a reputable brand that will most likely have modular cables available for any new connectors, etc. that may come out in the next several years.

 

[mindless1]

^ Gold vs Plat, it's usually only 2% or so difference, so supposing 1000W PSU with some margin is at 700W, that's only 14W difference, hardly much to consider as load on air conditioning if you already decided to put the 700W load on it.

At the same time you can calculate out long term savings doing it. General rule of thumb was 1W costs $1/year, of course depending on the electric rate in the area but again we're back to, if this money matters are you going to do DC at 700W, or whatever power level?

Personally, I'd rather put the money in the bank or find a better way to evacuate the heat like extract it from that room to outdoors rather than recirculate through the building so that central A/C has to deal with it, but this is also a trade off since it doesn't take 14W of A/C power, to remove 14W worth of heat, while an active ventiliation system to move it outdoors uses power too.

Seems like with multiple variables, it could go either way including what prices you find on the PSU and if you really need 1000W. Not too long ago I got a 750W Seasonic (but Antec branded) for $50, because I don't need a 1000W PSU. If per the above calculations, I was burning say $10 a year from using a Gold PSU, it could be more than half a decade until I recooped the initial cost and that's if the savings didn't draw interest and if I didn't also spend for spare PSUs to swap in at a moment's notice.

Just sayin'... it gets complicated.

 

[Tech Junky]

1000 watt Super Flower Leadex Platinum SE Platinum on Newegg right now for $165

When I was doing my rebuild I looked at the same PSU I ordered a few years earlier and the price was $165 but when I bought it originally it was $100. So, sticking with EVGA I found another model w/ same specs / 850W / full modular for $100.

I looked at SF models as well and when it comes down to it if it's going to fail it's either DOA or within 30 days anyway with some of the sketchier brands. Looking at the warranty though is key to deciphering quality / durability.

The other option that comes to mind is just getting 2 PSU's to handle the load if you're running a high watt setup. There's usually plenty of room to mount a second unit in the space albeit not the same as the primary unit. You can get creative and bend the case to your will if needed and do whatever you want. I could probably fit 3 PSU's into the under carriage area and have ventilation to them as well since the bottom is filtered but breathable. It doesn't have to be pretty to be effective.

 

[Icecold]

When I was doing my rebuild I looked at the same PSU I ordered a few years earlier and the price was $165 but when I bought it originally it was $100. So, sticking with EVGA I found another model w/ same specs / 850W / full modular for $100.

I looked at SF models as well and when it comes down to it if it's going to fail it's either DOA or within 30 days anyway with some of the sketchier brands. Looking at the warranty though is key to deciphering quality / durability.

The other option that comes to mind is just getting 2 PSU's to handle the load if you're running a high watt setup. There's usually plenty of room to mount a second unit in the space albeit not the same as the primary unit. You can get creative and bend the case to your will if needed and do whatever you want. I could probably fit 3 PSU's into the under carriage area and have ventilation to them as well since the bottom is filtered but breathable. It doesn't have to be pretty to be effective.

Super Flower makes really good PSU's. I have several of their gold rated ones in pretty high power consumption setups and haven't had any issues at all, the 1000 watt platinum one I mentioned has a 10 year warranty(which I think most of their power supplies do). They were the OEM for a lot of EVGA's better power supplies. I generally stick to either Seasonic, Corsair RMX or Super Flower.

I do sometimes use a second PSU if needed, generally a server PSU with breakout board, but those can be pretty loud. Your comment about putting a second PSU and it not needing to be pretty to be effective reminds me of the old supplemental PSU you used to be able to get that went into a 5.25 drive bay - https://www.newegg.com/fsp-group-booster-x5-450w/p/N82E16817104054 Those actually looked pretty legit.

 

[Tech Junky]

Yeah, the SF OEM insert / white label works for a lot of different brands / models / capacities. Seasonic does the same.

Ironically the RMX was the DOA one I had to deal with on one build that threw a wrench into the whole process and I ended up picking up a PSU tester while replacing it temporarily with a ThermalTake just to get the system up and running while RMA'ing the RMX.

There are still some shady options using 1/3/5 year warranties though. If it's a 10 year in my book of experience it's not going to be an issue in a build compared to other options.

That 5.25 model though is interesting in concept. The options with PSU sizes though is a bit limited in normal builds though. I can see the need for a supplemental one like that though for those with pre-built systems with under powered options.

Anyway.... skimping on a cheap PSU for a $1000+ system is just dumb. This is where weird stuff happens or kills components. However buying into the hype beyond the 80 Gold's doesn't make sense when we're talking energy savings of less than $20/year at this level.

 

[Skillz]

80 Bronze, 80 Gold, 80 Platinum means nothing. That's not a real standard anyway. Buying on that alone, or even considering it at all means dilly.

 

[crashtech]

Is there a standard that has meaning?
The reason I ask is that even though the power savings of the higher end PSUs are negligible, I assumed it would take higher quality designs and components to reach that standard.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Insights into ATX v3.0, ATX12VO v2.0 and PCIe 5.0 - When resource waste becomes the new standard | Investigative | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)

Buy something now to suit your current needs. You may need to upgrade in future anyway. The industry seems to want to use electricity like us humans use oxygen.

 

[Skillz]

Not really. If you want to know that a PSU is actually capable of providing it's advertised ratings then it's best to read a good benchmark. That'll give you the actual ability of the PSU in question.

Just because it says it's 850W and [whatever colored standard] doesn't mean it can actually do it under real conditions.

 

[crashtech]

Seems a very small fraction of what is out there ever get reviewed, though.

 

[Icecold]

Seems a very small fraction of what is out there ever get reviewed, though.

This list is a good resource for having a rough idea at least - https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/

Outside of that I would just try to stick to well known models from reputable brands/manufacturers.

 

[igor_kavinski]

This list is a good resource for having a rough idea at least - https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/

So many of the Tier A ones have various issues

Happy to see that ASUS TUF Bronze is in Tier B. I got that for my friend and it's been good so far.

 

[Skillz]

Even reputable brands have bad models. I always ask Paul Johnson who used to do [H]ard|OCP PSU reviews if he knows if it's a good model or not. He does reviews for TheFPSReview now and they've been building a nice list of PSUs they've reviewed since they started up.

Sucks that Johnyguru isn't a go to source anymore since he gave it up.

Quick example that I read most recently was an EVGA unit.

EVGA N1 750W Power Supply Review - Page 5 of 5 - The FPS Review

Is the EVGA N1 750W Power Supply Review a good entry-level PSU? Or could it be one of the worse? We'll let the "Magic Smoke" speak for itself.

www.thefpsreview.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

EVGA N1 750W Power Supply Review - Page 5 of 5 - The FPS Review

Is the EVGA N1 750W Power Supply Review a good entry-level PSU? Or could it be one of the worse? We'll let the "Magic Smoke" speak for itself.

www.thefpsreview.com

So SuperNOVA good. Their other units, stay the hell away!

 

[igor_kavinski]

TheFPSReview

Thank you. The reviews are done well.

 

[Skillz]

Paul knows his stuff.

 

[Icecold]

I should have been more specific - you do have to be careful on reputable "brands" as far as paying attention to who the OEM is, and also where the PSU is in their lineup. Even good "brands" have their lower end models which are often made by a different OEM. Even good OEMs have their lower end models as well generally. I meant specifically to both stick to a well known model(knowing that model has a good reputation and good OEM) that is from a brand that has a good reputation. If you can get a knowledgeable review on it(such as the ones from the FPS Review which I agree are very good reviews) even better. I wouldn't blindly buy a Corsair or EVGA without knowing if that specific model is a good one and who the OEM is, though I do have a pretty decent amount of faith in Corsair since Jonny Guru works there.

 

[Kiska]

So while there isn't a mandatory standard, 80 plus does have certain test requirements to pass certification; https://www.clearesult.com/80plus/program-details

For example this is the power supply I have: https://www.clearesult.com/80plus/sites/80plus/files/manufacturer-certificate/thermaltake-spr700ah2nk2-smart-rgb-700w-4573.pdf

At 700W output power, input power is 845.50W, that is a 16.83% loss to heat. 145W is quite a bit, but I don't run my power supply at 100%. 24/7 usage is 3.48KWh lost due to inefficiency and where I live costs 72 cents(My power is $0.2079/kwh) per day, over a year that is $264.

If I got a 80 plus bronze such as: https://www.clearesult.com/80plus/sites/80plus/files/manufacturer-certificate/be-quiet-s9cm700w-2103.pdf
Then at 700W loading, I'd be drawing 814.80W, a saving of 30.7W. Saving me 15 cents per day or $55 per year of savings.

Using this specification chart: (For 700W output ie 100% load(for me anyway))

80 plus: 853.6W input for 700W output, 76 cents per day, $279 per year
80 plus bronze: 823.5W input, 61 cents per day, $224 per year
80 plus silver: 804.5W input, 52 cents per day, $190 per year
80 plus gold: 786.5W input, 43 cents per day, $157 per year
80 plus platinum: 777.7W input, 38 cents per day, $141 per year
80 plus titanium: 769.2W input, 34 cents per day, $126 per year
Numbers are for how much power costs me

 

[Skillz]

The original article is lost but you can get an idea of why the 80+ standard doesn't mean anything.

Why 80 PLUS® is Irrelevant to You When Buying a PSU @ [H]

Why 80 PLUS® is Irrelevant to You When Buying a PSU - A HardOCP editorial about the 80 Plus® program and how it is changing the computer power supplies you are buying. Is this good, bad, or ugly, and should you care? Did you know that you paid for that 80Plus rating on your shiny new PSU...

hardforum.com

FYI: Spectre is Paul Johnson who talks in that thread.

 

[Kiska]

The original article is lost but you can get an idea of what the 80+ standard doesn't mean anything.

Why 80 PLUS® is Irrelevant to You When Buying a PSU @ [H]

Why 80 PLUS® is Irrelevant to You When Buying a PSU - A HardOCP editorial about the 80 Plus® program and how it is changing the computer power supplies you are buying. Is this good, bad, or ugly, and should you care? Did you know that you paid for that 80Plus rating on your shiny new PSU...

hardforum.com

FYI: Spectre is Paul Johnson who talks in that thread.

Here is the original article: https://web.archive.org/web/20111008022306/https://hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu or at least the first page