New PC - Your comments are appreciated

[sso]

Hi,

I am in the process of compiling a new PC and have come to the following configuration that goes for appx. 2500 $ in Europe or 1800 $ in the US. It will be used at home in a room w. appx. 25 deg year round, and has been optimized primarily for use with MS FS9 (and ready for the forthcomming FS2006) and for home video editing:

Casing:
ThermalTake VA3000SNA, Silver
PSU:
Coolermaster RealPower PSU 550W
MB:
MSI K8N-SLI-Platinum, nForce4, S939
CPU:
AMD Athlon64, 3700+, S939, BOX, San Dieg
GPU:
MSI NX6800GT-T2D256E, PCI-E, 6800GT
HD:
2 nos Western Digital 1600JS, 160GB, SATAII in Raid-0 config.
RAM:
Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2PRO 2x512, PC400
DVD-Burner:
LiteOn SOHW-1693S-23C, DVD±RW, White
OS:
Windows XP Pro Edition UK, OEM
Mouse/Digitizer:
Wacom Graphire3 Classic, A6, USB
Ext TV Card:
Pinnacle PCTV 100E USB-2
USB Hub:
BELKIN external 4 port 2.0 w. own PSU.

I would like to get comments from the knowledgable forum members in general on the compatibility between components and in particular on the following issues:

• 1 - Is this a harmonic configuration with the right ballance between components for the price? Any weak points?

• 2 - The Box version of the CPU comes with a fan/heatsink. I have not been able to find specs on the heatsink. Would upgrading to a (ThermalTake Cooler Silent Boost K8, S754) provide anything extra?

• 3 - Any better cooling options (if needed), that doesn't require watercooling, or where the fan/sink is of a size/weight where they risk damaging the MB and CPU?

• 4 - Will there be sufficient cooling to keep the System at a reasonable temperature, that neither hampers performance, component lifetime on one side, and noise level for Mrs. on the other side?

• 5 - Anything missing (joystick/keyboard/pedals/webcam/headphones/speakers I already have)?

• 6 - Any reason for taking the MSI K8N-Diamond over the MSI K8N-SLI-Platinum MB (it cost 30% more)?

I would much appreciate your comments to the configuration, and if anyone has good/bad experience with any of the above...

 

[OritionX]

As far as the cpu cooler goes the stock one that comes with the athlon64 cpus tend to be a little noisy. I usually like using the http://www.zalmanusa.com/usa/product/view.asp?idx=43&code=005009 They have a larger one but doesnt cool much better. Dont worry about the weight of this cooler cause it actually bolts into the brackett that is underneith the motherboard. A cpu socket and usually handle 2lbs per square inch anyway. Other then that the specs you have a not too bad. I did not see the ram timings on the ram I suggest extreme timed memory 2-2-2-5-1T As slowermemory can kill the performance on these cpus.

 

[sso]

Thanks for your input.

Corsair recommends 2.5-3-3-6 latency on AMD platforms for the indicated C2PRO Memory. Their more expensive XLPRO memory runs 2-2-2-5. Is this an issue with the C2PRO then?

Cheers

Stephen

 

[Kaspian]

Originally posted by: sso
Hi,

I am in the process of compiling a new PC and have come to the following configuration that goes for appx. 2500 $ in Europe or 1800 $ in the US. It will be used at home in a room w. appx. 25 deg year round, and has been optimized primarily for use with MS FS9 (and ready for the forthcomming FS2006) and for home video editing:

Casing:
ThermalTake VA3000SNA, Silver
PSU:
Coolermaster RealPower PSU 550W
MB:
MSI K8N-SLI-Platinum, nForce4, S939
CPU:
AMD Athlon64, 3700+, S939, BOX, San Dieg
GPU:
MSI NX6800GT-T2D256E, PCI-E, 6800GT
HD:
2 nos Western Digital 1600JS, 160GB, SATAII in Raid-0 config.
RAM:
Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2PRO 2x512, PC400
DVD-Burner:
LiteOn SOHW-1693S-23C, DVD±RW, White
OS:
Windows XP Pro Edition UK, OEM
Mouse/Digitizer:
Wacom Graphire3 Classic, A6, USB
Ext TV Card:
Pinnacle PCTV 100E USB-2
USB Hub:
BELKIN external 4 port 2.0 w. own PSU.

I would like to get comments from the knowledgable forum members in general on the compatibility between components and in particular on the following issues:

• 1 - Is this a harmonic configuration with the right ballance between components for the price? Any weak points?

System looks good...and of course more ram never hurts...

• 2 - The Box version of the CPU comes with a fan/heatsink. I have not been able to find specs on the heatsink. Would upgrading to a (ThermalTake Cooler Silent Boost K8, S754) provide anything extra?

The stock cpu fan/hs will keep your cpu cool enough, however they tend to be alittle to noisy for my taste. I would replace it with something alittle more quite. Go to newegg or a different web site where they list the noise level of the fans and go from there.

• 3 - Any better cooling options (if needed), that doesn't require watercooling, or where the fan/sink is of a size/weight where they risk damaging the MB and CPU?

I havent looked at that case yet. Does it have room for a 120mm fan on the front or back? if so put one fan (120mm) on the front one on the back and get a cople of rehostats to control the air flow...or just buy a fan controler already build.

• 4 - Will there be sufficient cooling to keep the System at a reasonable temperature, that neither hampers performance, component lifetime on one side, and noise level for Mrs. on the other side?

• 5 - Anything missing (joystick/keyboard/pedals/webcam/headphones/speakers I already have)?

• 6 - Any reason for taking the MSI K8N-Diamond over the MSI K8N-SLI-Platinum MB (it cost 30% more)?

Just look at the features of each and then make the call...what will you be getting for the extra 30%? and will you need it/use it?




I would much appreciate your comments to the configuration, and if anyone has good/bad experience with any of the above...

 

[sso]

Originally posted by: Kaspian

I would like to get comments from the knowledgable forum members in general on the compatibility between components and in particular on the following issues:

• 1 - Is this a harmonic configuration with the right ballance between components for the price? Any weak points?

System looks good...and of course more ram never hurts...

• 2 - The Box version of the CPU comes with a fan/heatsink. I have not been able to find specs on the heatsink. Would upgrading to a (ThermalTake Cooler Silent Boost K8, S754) provide anything extra?

The stock cpu fan/hs will keep your cpu cool enough, however they tend to be alittle to noisy for my taste. I would replace it with something alittle more quite. Go to newegg or a different web site where they list the noise level of the fans and go from there.

• 3 - Any better cooling options (if needed), that doesn't require watercooling, or where the fan/sink is of a size/weight where they risk damaging the MB and CPU?

I havent looked at that case yet. Does it have room for a 120mm fan on the front or back? if so put one fan (120mm) on the front one on the back and get a cople of rehostats to control the air flow...or just buy a fan controler already build.

• 4 - Will there be sufficient cooling to keep the System at a reasonable temperature, that neither hampers performance, component lifetime on one side, and noise level for Mrs. on the other side?

• 5 - Anything missing (joystick/keyboard/pedals/webcam/headphones/speakers I already have)?

• 6 - Any reason for taking the MSI K8N-Diamond over the MSI K8N-SLI-Platinum MB (it cost 30% more)?

Just look at the features of each and then make the call...what will you be getting for the extra 30%? and will you need it/use it?

Thanks for your comments.

1 - I was actually advised against more RAM under XP Prof, as I was told more than two sticks and 1 GB would not improve performance, on the contrary.
2 - When you say noisy, is that a serious difference from something like the ThermalTake Cooler Silent Boost K8 at 21DB under max speed?
3 - Case comes with two 120 mm fans. Are they not controlable via software? I think so...
6 - My problem with the Diamond, is I cant figure what merits the extra price, so Im wondering if Im overlooking something...

Cheers

Stephen

 

[Kaspian]

Thanks for your comments.

[/quote] - I was actually advised against more RAM under XP Prof, as I was told more than two sticks and 1 GB would not improve performance, on the contrary.

One gig of ram is fine, nothing wrong with that. However, I would've never thought that I would ever need more than 1 gig of ram till I started playing BF2. It is more of a future proof sort of thing. If the software/games you are currently using do not require that much ram...then just wait till you do need it and then add more ram to the system. And I dont think more mem will bogg your system down. I ran some benchmarks and the performance did not diminish (e.g. in 3DMark05 it added 10 more points to my overall score after installing the extra gig of ram)

2 - When you say noisy, is that a serious difference from something like the ThermalTake Cooler Silent Boost K8 at 21DB under max speed?

Lets put it this way; I have 2 120mm fans on my main rig and the only thing that you can hear is the fan on the cpu heatsink...I'm going to replace it as soon as I can...I just keep putting it off.....anything rated at 21dBA or lower will be pretty acceptable. My 120mm fans are rated at low 20s and I can barely hear them when I crank the rehostas all the way up.

3 - Case comes with two 120 mm fans. Are they not controlable via software? I think so...

Yes...nothing wrong with that.......you also have to look at the coolness factor
Think about how cool will your rig will look with one of this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=list&SubCategory=11

6 - My problem with the Diamond, is I cant figure what merits the extra price, so Im wondering if Im overlooking something...

I most be overlooking it also, because I couldnt figure it out either .

Cheers

Stephen

 

[sso]

Originally posted by: Kaspian
3 - Case comes with two 120 mm fans. Are they not controlable via software? I think so...

Yes...nothing wrong with that.......you also have to look at the coolness factor
Think about how cool will your rig will look with one of this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=list&SubCategory=11

Think I have to optimize more towards the WAF than the Coolness factor. It has to stand in our office arrangement in our dinningroom...

6 - My problem with the Diamond, is I cant figure what merits the extra price, so Im wondering if Im overlooking something...

I most be overlooking it also, because I couldnt figure it out either .

Indeed very strange. Maybe someone from MSI could point it out to sell some more boards LOL..

Cheers

Stephen

 

[sso]

I note on http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_build.html that ASUS 6800GT card has been certified for SLI, whereas the MSI card I have mentioned in my original posting is not.

I am considering whether one should then opt for the ASUS instead, or of the advantage would be better of having both a MSI MB and GPU?

What makes the difference between almost identical cards being certified or not? Power consumption? On board Fan efficiency?

Comments?

thanks in advance

 

[sso]

The more one reads here the more confused one gets (goes the wrong way...).

According to the great thread the ultimate "do i need a 24pin PSU ?" thread posting 03/15/2005 by FastEddie the MSI K8N SLI Platinum MB needs a -5 V for the Creative Live! chip. It is actually difficult to find a PSU that has a high power rating (incl 12V multiple Windings) that also supplies the -5V.

Is it correct that this is needed? If so that narrows the choice of PSU, and almost makes me consider a ASUS MB SLI/Deluxe and ASUS GPU combination instead (although there is no Creative 24! on this board).

They sure dont make it easy...

 

[Aquila76]

I like your selections for all your components, except the PSU. I've had a couple CoolerMaster's just stop working, and a PSU stress test at Tom's Hardware killed it rather quickly when it was loaded up. I like the Enermax PSU's (see my rig link in the sig). I haven't checked out that other thread, but I would definitely recommend a 24pin PSU as your mobo has the 24pin connector and you will only benefit from it if/when you upgrade the mobo later on.

 

[rise]

i don't put much stock in what Tom's says but i also would have looked elsewhere for a psu.

 

[sso]

Ok, Not much seems to get through Toms test there...
So It still comes down to the MSI SLI/Platinum needing the -5V
I have now found that clearly defined on http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=641.
This is now clearly defined in the box at the bootom of the page. The same goes for the MSI SLI/Diamond board...

This hunt for suitable PSU really is quickly making me loose interest in this MSI board as almost none of the PSUs has this... think I will go for a ASUS/SLI MB and 6800GT instead, although the MB does not offer the SB Live 24! onboard. Alternately one should skip the SLI altogether...

The best PSU options seem to have been narrowed down to:
TAGAN TG480-U22 / TG530-U15 / TG530-U22
Enermax EG701AX-VE / EG495AX-VE / Noisetaker 600W

The PC Power & Cooling unfortunately does not seem to be available here in DK.

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: sso
Ok, Not much seems to get through Toms test there...
So It still comes down to the MSI SLI/Platinum needing the -5V
I have now found that clearly defined on http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=641.
This is now clearly defined in the box at the bootom of the page. The same goes for the MSI SLI/Diamond board...

This hunt for suitable PSU really is quickly making me loose interest in this MSI board as almost none of the PSUs has this... think I will go for a ASUS/SLI MB and 6800GT instead, although the MB does not offer the SB Live 24! onboard. Alternately one should skip the SLI altogether...

The best PSU options seem to have been narrowed down to:
TAGAN TG480-U22 / TG530-U15 / TG530-U22
Enermax EG701AX-VE / EG495AX-VE / Noisetaker 600W

The PC Power & Cooling unfortunately does not seem to be available here in DK.

I'd go with the Enermax. I've seen Tagan's fail after long periods of activity as well. I've had zero problems with Enermax PSU's. I'd personally go with the EG701 for your setup. You'll have plenty of overhead with that PSU if you decide to OC, add another video card, and HDD's later on.

 

[sso]

Thanks again,

Having browsed further through the net, I have come in doubt as regards to the choice between ASUS and MSI MB+GPUs.

I am looking at two almost identical options which I would like to hear the honerable forum members opinion on.

ASUS: A8N-SLI/Deluxe + EN6800GT/2DT/256
MSI: K8N4 SLI-Platinum + NX6800GT-T2D256E

I have concluded the following pros(+) and cons(-) in relation to the other according to specs, various tests and user comments.

ASUS:
+ MB & GPU SLI approved by NVIDIA for SLI
+ NV hardware Firewall on one LAN port
+ Athlon 64 X2 able
Anandtech SLI roundup conclusions:
- Only two PCIe (x16) slots, which can run as 1 x16 and 1 x1
- Onboard Sound processor CPU heavy, and lower quality. Would require eg. Creative Audigy2 ZS (additional cost)
- Poor overclocker


MSI:
+ Anandtech "nForce4 Roundup" testwinner (with DFI over ASUS and Gigabyte)
+ Onboard Creative SB 24 Live!
+ 2 Gigabyte PCIe LAN ports
- GPU not approved by NVIDIA for SLI (Why not???)
- not Athlon 64 X2 able (according to their own specs)
- Only two PCIe (x16) slots, which can run as 1 x16 and 1 x1
- Chipset fan considered small and noisy
- Only hardware control of Non-SLI / SLI mode requiring removal of Cards etc...
- Fault rate of boards higher?
Anandtech SLI roundup conclusions:
- No SATA II Raid support


I presently have a MSI setup as you can see below and have been pretty satisfied further it was the test winner in the Anandtech test, dispite the above issues.
I dont have any experience with ASUS, but my understanding is that you wont go wrong with either...

Questions:
i) Any comments to the above overview?
ii) Are the drawbacks determined in the Anandtech review still valid here 6 months after? It seems like several things have been corrected. Ref Anandtech SLI Roundup
iii) Could one expect better performance by using MB+GPU = ASUS+ASUS or MSI+MSI, or should that not matter. I would think that a given GPU was optimized with the same companys MB
iv) The major issues with the MSI seems to be a) that the MB is not certified for Athlon 64 X2, b) that the GPU is not certified for SLI by Nvidia and c) the hardware switch for the SLI

Comments?

Cheers

Stephen

 

[Aquila76]

i) Any comments to the above overview?
ii) Are the drawbacks determined in the Anandtech review still valid here 6 months after? It seems like several things have been corrected. Ref Anandtech SLI Roundup
(Answering both) Anand's review was fair and accurate, however ASUS has since released the A8N-SLI Premium, which overclocks as good as or better than anything else. IIRC, the MSI board had an issue with certain memory sticks not fitting correctly due to the memory being so close to each other. The ASUS has the most space between memory sticks, allowing better cooling/selection.

iii) Could one expect better performance by using MB+GPU = ASUS+ASUS or MSI+MSI, or should that not matter. I would think that a given GPU was optimized with the same companys MB
This makes no difference at all. A faster card is a faster card regardless of what mobo it's on. FWIW, I'm running dual Gigabyte cards on my ASUS SLI mobo.

iv) The major issues with the MSI seems to be a) that the MB is not certified for Athlon 64 X2, b) that the GPU is not certified for SLI by Nvidia and c) the hardware switch for the SLI
All of that is true, but every SLI mobo (except the ASUS A8N-SLI Premium) has the same hardware SLI switch. Honestly though, I've neveer had to flip mine after the initial install. In the nVidia control panel, there's a dropdown box to use SLI mode or single mode and that has always worked fine for me.

 

[OCedHrt]

Of the reviews of the ThermalTake Cooler Silent Boost K8 I've seen, it's no where near silent and much louder than 21db.

A review

A post from the SPCR folks

Another review with it @ 30db or so

The claimed 21db is a bit extreme, though at 30-40db it should be fine(?). I remember reading somewhere that it was much louder, but hmm.. oh well