New Pc Advice

[lordnibbla]

Hello, I'm a novice computer enthusiast looking to build a new system on a reasonable budget. I've been reading these forums to see where the best values are, and I've got to say, what a great place you guys got here, wonderful mods and lively discussion.
Anyways, I've come up with a few ideas.

I've already purchased a case and power supply that I like, so that's already in place. I'm simply looking for mb/cpu/ram, with the ability to purchase a modern hdd and graphics card at a later date (I already own several old hdds and a gts 450 to stem the initial cost)

For reference, my needs include

-Movie/Tv watching
-Gaming
-Encoding from avchd cam to multiple formats.

I am coming from a ~2005/6 (compaq? hp? I forgot because I lost the case since then and they both use the same/similar mb) athlon x2 2.xxghz and have been fairly satisfied with it for several years, but have since stopped using it because I have a laptop now and I found a different use for the pc:

[url=https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XiX5cNV08z4/TqDWaRtsqeI/AAAAAAAABTA/gu3vPLK6Yzg/s0/20110913_004.jpg] [/URL](9x ihas424 cd burner / lightscriber )

So, I already have:

$119.99 Seasonic SS-850HT 850W
$64.98 Xigmatek Utgard Original CPC-T90DB-U01


So, I've been looking at:

$124.99 AMD Phenom II X4 960T

Because of this thread, and peoples success in unlocking at least another core.

$189.99 AMD Phenom II X6 1100T

$169.99 AMD Phenom II X6 1090T

Which is a better buy? Do either have more 'headroom' for an OC?


OK, so there's the cpus I'm looking at, but anyone feel free to put any others out there. Being that I'm coming from an almost archaic and locked system like this, almost anything will likely blow me away in terms of real world performance gains. Even still I want to have this new setup last me a couple of years of boasting and few more years of inferiority, but tweaking and upgrading to tide me over to the next build.


I'm also sort of looking at:
$139.99 AMD A8-3850 Llano

Because of the recent overclocking results.. but not really seriously considering it because of the dead socket, maybe when/if the black edition comes out? I Also like the option off a crossfire like sitution (albeit a limited selection for adding on a card)



Ok, I purposely didn't put any intel cpu's on my list. Not because I'm not considering them, just haven't had the time to look. I guess I'm asking for someone to point me in the right direction to make a decision.

As far as Mb's go, I'm simply looking for 2x16 pci express and multiple (at least 6) sata ports. So I'm not too worried about that decision yet. But I like the idea of an am3+ board to be able to drop in piledriver (is that right? Will PD be am3+?) when it comes/ if its worth it.
But my budget for cpu, mb and ram is about $300.00-400.00 US

Thanks

-Ben

Ok, after all that, I found the sticky at the top and just wanted to add all of the things specifically just in case I missed anything:


1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
-Movie/Tv watching
-Gaming
-Encoding from avchd cam to multiple formats.
2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
$300-400 for cpu,mb and ram.
3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
USA
4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
No pref., but obvious irrational AMD bias (convince me otherwise)

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

$119.99 Seasonic SS-850HT 850W
$64.98 Xigmatek Utgard Original CPC-T90DB-U01

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.
Yes
7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
Yes, eventually (as such, no 3rd party cooler is needed yet)
8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.
1080
9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
asap

Thanks again.

 

[lehtv]

Hi lordnibbla

$300-400 just for CPU, mobo and RAM? That sounds like Intel i5-2500K territory. To convince you of Intel's superiority - http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/203?vs=288 . Once overclocked, the gap to 1100T will be even wider.

i5-2500K $220
Asrock Z68 Pro3 $105 OR Asrock Z68 Extreme3 $125 (crossfire/SLI capable)
PNY Optima 2x4GB 1333 $37

Total = $362 to $382

As you're using this for gaming, what is your current video card? Do you plan to upgrade that soon as well?

 

[lordnibbla]

Thank you lehtv for your response.

I can see what you mean with the benchmark comparisons.
It seems that the i5-2500k is generally ahead of the 1100T, and they are neck and neck in some sections. But from what you said, there is a greater difference when both are overclocked? If you maxed out both, the i5-2500k would still be ahead?

As for the graphics, I already own a GIGABYTE GV-N450OC-1GI GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi), and eventually will upgrade, but I'm not too worried about that for now.

As well from what I understand, there is still some life left in the LGA-1155 socket with ivy bridge coming right?

In any case, thank you for your input.

 

[lehtv]

It seems that the i5-2500k is generally ahead of the 1100T, and they are neck and neck in some sections. But from what you said, there is a greater difference when both are overclocked? If you maxed out both, the i5-2500k would still be ahead?

I meant 2500K is more overclockable. Both CPUs operate at 3.3GHz default, with the default turbo boost speed at 3.7Ghz. 2500K regularly achieves 4.5GHz with a small voltage increase and a budget aftermarket cooler, whereas 4.1-4.2Ghz is already a very big OC for 1100T. With higher end cooling and more hefty voltage increases, 2500K will reach nearly 5Ghz. None of this is relevant of course unless you actually plan to OC.

As well from what I understand, there is still some life left in the LGA-1155 socket with ivy bridge coming right?

Yes, but upgrading to Ivy Bridge from 2500K is unlikely to be worth it. IB will perform perhaps 20% better clock-for-clock according to Intel's expectations (someone correct me if this has changed), and it will have lower power consumption, probably better overclockability and some other improvements. (See http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2011/10/10/all-about-ivy-bridge/1).

If you wish, you could settle for an i3-2100, since your current GPU certainly doesn't need a 2500K to drive it. You could then upgrade it to a quad-core Ivy Bridge if needed. In single-threaded or slightly multithreaded performance, i3-2100 is toe-to-toe with a stock 1100T: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=203. In multithreaded encoding, 1100T beats it by a fair margin, but also costs $65 more and consumes twice as much power.

 

[lordnibbla]

Ok, thats alot more clear then. Thanks.

So, I may go with the i5-2500k because when Ivy bridge comes, I'll likely get that (even with just marginal increase of performance) and then sell the i5-2500k to my bro for like $170 as he's wanting to upgrade too, but needs to save up and is on a tighter budget.

Or maybe at that time, I'll just be happy with what I got and stick with it for a few years.
4.5-5Ghz is nothing to laugh at, essentially doubling the spped of my old athlon, not to mention doubling the cores.

But, just to be sure, is there no reason to justify buying an AMD cpu at the moment?
Even for the cheaper end of what I was looking at ($124.99 AMD Phenom II X4 960T)? Even if just for the comparable upgrade path and cheaper upfront cost.

Btw, I do plan to overclock in the near future, an aftermarket cooler would likely be my next purchase a couple of months down the line.

I'm just thinking about:
#1Enjoyment now
#2Price
#3Upgrade path

 

[lehtv]

So, I may go with the i5-2500k because when Ivy bridge comes, I'll likely get that (even with just marginal increase of performance) and then sell the i5-2500k to my bro for like $170 as he's wanting to upgrade too, but needs to save up and is on a tighter budget.

Or maybe at that time, I'll just be happy with what I got and stick with it for a few years.
4.5-5Ghz is nothing to laugh at, essentially doubling the spped of my old athlon, not to mention doubling the cores.

This makes sense :thumbsup:

But, just to be sure, is there no reason to justify buying an AMD cpu at the moment? Even for the cheaper end of what I was looking at ($124.99 AMD Phenom II X4 960T)?

Hmm, successfully unlocked to a six-core, it should perform similarly to X6 1075T (same clocks) which costs $160. Intriguing, I'll let others chime in on that one. My choice, on your budget, would still be the 2500K though, it's just so much faster especially for gaming. If gaming is a minor thing and video encoding something you do a lot, AMD could be a good idea.

 

[lordnibbla]

My choice, on your budget, would still be the 2500K though, it's just so much faster especially for gaming. If gaming is a minor thing and video encoding something you do a lot, AMD could be a good idea.

Ok, to put it plainly, I don't have the time use my pc too often for anything at all, but I suppose when I do I want it to be able to perform.

If I were to choose, I would prioritize the time it takes to encode video over fps in gaming.

Does x6 Phenom (x4 960t) at least compete with i5-2500k in terms of gaming?
Does it perform competitively at encoding video?

For the price (less $50-100) I'd be happy with AMD even at slightly decreased performance over an intel setup. $125 for a potentially 6 core phenom at ~4-4.5 Ghz (oc) isn't anything to laugh at either.

 

[lehtv]

Substituting the X4 960T with X6 1075T: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/185?vs=288

The 1075T is very close to 2500K in multithreaded encoding, but in almost everything else including some of the encoding tests, 2500K destroys it, and especially in gaming. Then factor in 2500K's overclockability, and consider whether the increase in price is worth it to you.

 

[mfenn]

Hi lordnibbla

$300-400 just for CPU, mobo and RAM? That sounds like Intel i5-2500K territory. To convince you of Intel's superiority - http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/203?vs=288 . Once overclocked, the gap to 1100T will be even wider.

i5-2500K $220
Asrock Z68 Pro3 $105 OR Asrock Z68 Extreme3 $125 (crossfire/SLI capable)
PNY Optima 2x4GB 1333 $37

Total = $362 to $382

As you're using this for gaming, what is your current video card? Do you plan to upgrade that soon as well?

:thumbsup: To this. OP, to put it in perspective for you, here is a comparison between the 1075T and Intel's $115 dual-core i3. As you can see, the dual core is faster in pretty much every case except for 3D rendering and video encoding. It's not like the 6-core is anywhere close to 3 times as fast in encoding either.

 

[Vdubchaos]

2500K is your best bet by a long shot

If money is an object and you can't swing it I suggest getting 6 core AMD (1090t) at microcenter. They have a great deal for AMD, when you buy CPU you get free motherboard.

But honestly, I would pass that and just pay extra for non Micro ATX motherboard and 2500k.

 

[lordnibbla]

Ok, thank you for your input everyone!
So I'm leaning towards the build you decribed here:

i5-2500K $220
Asrock Z68 Extreme3 $125 (crossfire/SLI capable)
PNY Optima 2x4GB 1333 $37

~$382

But also considering something like this:

GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ AMD 990FX $150
AMD Phenom II X4 960T$124.99
(same ram?) $37
~$312

And this is where I get another question:
Where is faster/slower ram going to effect my performance? Is it in overclocking? Anywhere else? Because whichever build I go with, I don't want to limit something that could be fixed with another $40 worth of ram.
Thanks.

 

[mfenn]

The multiplier is unlocked on Sandy Bridge, so you don't need to worry about the RAM for overclocking. RAM speed won't make a difference in performance for SNB either because the memory controller is so good.

The 960T isn't a Black Edition, so the multiplier is locked. Thus you need to bump the NB speed which affects the RAM speed.

Overall, the i5 2500K is a much better deal. It's faster at stock than an unlocked 960T (which is not guaranteed), will run cooler and use less power, and does not need fancy RAM.

 

[lordnibbla]

Thank you mfenn, I likely will go with the i5-2500k.

Although, I wonder if you thought I was talking about some other chip here:

The 960T isn't a Black Edition, so the multiplier is locked. Thus you need to bump the NB speed which affects the RAM speed.

Ok, I could be wrong here, but the only reason I was considering this chip was because I thought it was a black edition. Isn't it?
Anyways, if it is unlocked, then ram really isn't an issue as with Intel right?

But this is really where I need clarity:

Because whichever build I go with, I don't want to limit something that could be fixed with another $40 worth of ram.

What real world situation would it be beneficial to buy faster(more expensive) ram?

 

[ItsAlive]

If you wanted to save a few bucks you could pricematch the i5 2500k at NCIX with the Microcenter $179.99 price and save $40. If you didnt want to pricematch the regular price is $189.99 still alot cheaper, but that price says its only good until the 26th.

Then get the Asrock Extreme3 Gen3 from Superbiiz Coupon Code: DOVE and save another $13 on that.



i5 2500k = $179.99 - $189.99
Asrock Extreme3 Gen3 - $120

EDIT: Just noticed the PNY RAM is for 8Gb, I'd go with the kit lehtv suggested.

 

[jae]

Go with the Intel machine.. Even I am AMD biased but you just can't beat the Priceerformance of an Intel system right now.

 

[mfenn]

Ok, I could be wrong here, but the only reason I was considering this chip was because I thought it was a black edition. Isn't it?
Anyways, if it is unlocked, then ram really isn't an issue as with Intel right?

Hmm, the picture of the box does say "Black Edition" but Black Edition isn't mentioned in the description at all. Looking around, it seems that HD96ZTWFK4DGR is the Black Edition whereas HD960TFBK4DGR is the normal (locked version). Maybe somebody at Newegg accidentally put the description of the HD960TFBK4DGR on the product page for the HD96ZTWFK4DGR?

What real world situation would it be beneficial to buy faster(more expensive) ram?

If you want to overclock by raising the FSB (or BCLK or NB Freq).

 

[lordnibbla]

So I bought the i5-2500k. Came in the mail this morning (thanks to Amazon 2day ^_^)
But the board and the ram is still coming from newegg (didn;t want to pay extra for shipping..). I wanted to get it all from Amazon because they have a much simpler (and free) return process, but they didn't have the ram or the board in stock.

Anyways, heres what I got:


Intel Core i5-2500K $220
*Asrock Z68 Extreme3 $125
*PNY Optima 2x4GB 1333 $37
*Corsair Hydro Series H100 $108
Seasonic SS-850HT 850W $120
Xigmatek Utgard Original CPC-T90DB-U01 $65
TP-Link WL TL-WN781ND (wifi) $15

I doubt that they will call be in by Wednesday, but we'll see. Still waiting on the starred ones..

Thanks everyone with your help!

 

[lehtv]

Looks good apart from the $100 cooler ... :E

 

[lordnibbla]

Ok, but like I said amazon has a great return policy :biggrin:

Well, I bought the h100 because I just liked how small it was. Not the rad but the footprint on the actual motherboard. I just liked the way it looked compared to something like a NH-D14 sized monster.

Is there a reason you don't like the h100?

Alternatives?

 

[lehtv]

I don't like it because it's so expensive in comparison to similarly performing air coolers, and because a $25 212+ gets to you 4.5GHz. I don't really consider the size of big tower coolers an issue. The tallest RAM modules will fit under a Noctua C14 with the lower fan removed, and it'll still cool the CPU very well. And cooler height clearance isn't a problem with such top-down coolers.

I can't find info on the max. cooler height for your case, have you measured it or does it mention it in the manual?

If it fits, Thermalright HR-02 Macho for half the price performs within a couple of degrees of H100, and probably at a lower noise level. If HR-02 doesn't fit your case, Noctua NH-C12P SE14 is a nice cooler, also quiet yet similarly high performing.

Or you could just go with the popular and cheap Hyper 212+ (if it fits).

 

[mfenn]

So I bought the i5-2500k. Came in the mail this morning (thanks to Amazon 2day ^_^)
But the board and the ram is still coming from newegg (didn;t want to pay extra for shipping..). I wanted to get it all from Amazon because they have a much simpler (and free) return process, but they didn't have the ram or the board in stock.

Anyways, heres what I got:


Intel Core i5-2500K $220
*Asrock Z68 Extreme3 $125
*PNY Optima 2x4GB 1333 $37
*Corsair Hydro Series H100 $108
Seasonic SS-850HT 850W $120
Xigmatek Utgard Original CPC-T90DB-U01 $65
TP-Link WL TL-WN781ND (wifi) $15

I doubt that they will call be in by Wednesday, but we'll see. Still waiting on the starred ones..

Thanks everyone with your help!

Looks OK, but you went off the deep end on the cooler and PSU. You apparently already bought the PSU a while ago, so I won't dwell on that too much. Suffice to say, it's overkill for even 6950 2GB CFX.

As for the cooler, I don't much like the H100 and its ilk because they have the downsides of a custom watercooling setup (namely, water, more complex, more parts to break) but none of the benefits. If you think about it, the purpose of using water as a coolant is to move the heat somewhere where it can more easily be dumped by big, slow fans. The H100 has a monster radiator (I mean, have you checked that it will fit in your case?), but it only moves the heat about 6 inches or so. Not a huge improvement over a good tower cooler that costs 1/2 to 1/3 as much.

 

[lordnibbla]

First of all, thank you mfenn, lehtv for the advice you've given. You helped me clarify what I was looking for in my new pc.
But as for the h-100, I had kind of had my heart set on it since I first saw it
So.. yeah, I'm going to keep it despite the other options.

It actually fits quite nicely, although it did require minor modding to the case, nothing serious, just some plastic that was in the top needed to come out to get the extra 2-3 mm i needed for it to fit with the fans. Also the fan holes for the top of the case werent aligned for the radiator so I just snipped some of the metal away to make it straight.

All in all it looks quite nice, but I still can't try it out for lack of ram .
Never, ever going eggsaver again... I've done it before, but it has never taken more than about 3-4 days.

I'll put up some pics when I get the ram in and get to test it out.
Thanks for the help.

 

[mfenn]

No problem, just making sure that you understand that you somewhat wasted your money on those two parts.

 

[lordnibbla]

Alright, pics:

I had to clip that plastic grill off of the top panel to fit it all in.

But it fits nicely with the top on that way.

Forgot the outside pics... but yeah, not very interesting anyways right?

 

[mfenn]

This may be obvious, but make sure that the fans above and below the radiator are blowing in the same direction!