NEW OCZ Debacle pls help guys

Saldir

Junior Member
Aug 12, 2010
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Firstly,I am probably the oldest troll of your website,i simply love it. We OCZ users have had a tough run lately with the new string of drives,Vertex 3,agility 3 etc. They are blaming firmware and are trying to hurry and come up with a fix(Sandforce).Many of us have constant BSOD's and at first they wouldn't even acknowledge the problem.Quick outline

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?89893-FW-2.08-discussion.-2.08-has-shown-to-help-a-limited-number-of-people-BUT-many-still-have-issues.-A-new-FW-is-on-its-way-for-beta-test-and-I-will-advise-on-the-progress-next-week.-Please-read-the-whole-of-this-thread-especially-staff-posts



OK here is where ALOT of us are confused and we need help

Removed thread about sata cables causing the issue as OCZ deleted it.

Is this even possible,would a cable have to specifically say "6gbs" approved before it will work with one of the new drives. OCZ/Sandforce have even blamed the BSOD issues on firmware not flashing right to due to lost/corrupted data cause of we using wrong cables. Does that sound even possible?
Thanks alot sirs,i appreciate it.
 
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groberts101

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
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probably a waste of breath as all this thread will serve to do is attract all the other OCZ bashers into yet another anti-OCZ frenzy.. but I'll say this anyways. If you read the thread carefully and take all the extreme assumption/interpretation out of the matter?.. all they are saying is that cabling is made very cheaply and can cause even more headaches on that drive.

Using a cable that works just fine on HDD with a drive like the Vertex 3 that loads a system/chipset so heavily due to the huge throughput gain can and HAS caused others issue. I can recollect at least 3 other posts besides Ryders recent cable incident where they have completely cured SATA downclocks, dropouts, and general misconduct.

Hardcore system users/raiders can attest to that the most. I too have had bad cables even on HDD setups and in some cases they can even cause occassional dropped drives in arrays. Speed losses are also measurable and quite easily quantified by just swapping suspect cables back and forth.

So,.. transient losses can and do cause issues for some systems and no one has said that all systems should be upgraded but simply that IF you are one of the unlucky one's to have issue?.. don't overlook or underestimate it's effect.

My personal feelings on the matter are that if I did have an issue on a system worth thousands of dollars?.. I would be ordering a decent externally shielded SATA 6G cable in a heartbeat just to eliminate the possibility of a cabling issue. IMHO, that won't even come close to helping the vast majority of the one's who have issues with these drives. Probably 1% of that "supposed 1%" of issues would be helped by a simple quality cable swap. If you happen to be one of them?.. you'll be happy you spent the $10 bucks. If not?.. then you'll have one more thing to bitch about wasting money on besides that SSD. lol
 

groberts101

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
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assumption seems to be a virtue around here and you have taken that crown hands down. Corsair used a reference PCB design from Sandforce which led to ONLY the 120GB models being recalled. Not ALL SF 2281 chipped models. Get a clue dude.

Some are already figuring their update issues out(yes.. even with the dreaded 2.06 firmware) and some newer firmware will help work around the other issues the OCZ drives are having with compatibility on certain paltforms. More to it than meets the eye here.

The other curious thing is that you call me a troll? You seem to be traveling around the forums on some type of consumer advocacy vendetta. Did OCZ slight you with a bad drive or are you just a flamer.. who bounces around to vent and be a flamer?

If you have no firsthand experience with the Sandforce controller?.. maybe you don't know a fraction of what the hell you're even talking about here. Join the crowd as you seem to have come to the right place then.
 

Thor86

Diamond Member
May 3, 2001
7,888
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Well, just to chime in, I took a dive, and got a 240GB Vertex3, and so far very happy with it, and no issues which I have been reading around the net.

It came new with firmware 2.06, and using my SATA6GB graded cable that came with the board, and using MSAHCI drivers from Win7 x64, and setup the port as Hot Plug. Even transferred the OS/SR partitions from an Intel G2 SSD.

Works like a charm so far on my SB @ 4.6Ghz and speedstep enabled (down clocks to 1.6Ghz when idle).
 

nanaki333

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2002
3,772
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do they still have the boot disc firmware upgrade for ocz drives? the v3 in my wife's computer is a v3 240GB and it's her OS drive. i really don't want to have to pull the drive out and put it in my desktop to flash it.
 

reb0rn

Senior member
Dec 31, 2009
320
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ppl jump at the conclusion to fast... vertex 3, agility 3, ect need days of use, preferable 24/7 with few high and low usage with long idle state to get BSOD... some may even only have 20-30sec system lag and only in a month use one or two bsod.. so its not easy to notice to say its a stable drive........

I hear a banch of ppl swearing its fucking gr8 and stable and in week or so they say thay had first bsod...
 

=Wendy=

Senior member
Nov 7, 2009
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ppl jump at the conclusion to fast...
They certainly do.
Everyone seems to assume if you have an SF2xxx based SSD, and you have a BSOD, then it must be the SSD that is causing it. This is not always the case.

I had some BSOD problems, and it was eventually tracked down to a corrupted IPME table in CMOS on a Z68 board, an area that Vertex 3 most certainly does not have access to.

The corrupted table was crashing the power management engine driver, and the system then froze and was followed by a BSOD.

Clearing CMOS, then forcing a table rebuild, fixed the problem.

This info has been passed onto the board maker, and they take it serious enough to warrant an investigation, and are now in the process of trying to re-create the problem.
 

reb0rn

Senior member
Dec 31, 2009
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@=Wendy=
but still if that problem is only reproduced with SF 2xxx than its fault more then mobo/bios :)
 

reb0rn

Senior member
Dec 31, 2009
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Not necessarily.

better advise corsair to look at samsung, intel, marvell parts more.......

sandforce if keep few monts more with crap firmwares... and abuse compression for more "unreal" speed ... the ppl might bounce and start to hate it
hype of the 550/500MB/s read/write hoax compresson speed might turn to hate easy :)
 

e-drood

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Jun 15, 2011
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I have direct personal experience w/ OCZ V2, V3 & V3 Max used as boot drive + mech hdd + raid (ssd x4) as Sandforce controller function is of interest to me. Intel ssd's in same system config running separate / parallel - same os throughout.

The Sandforce controller based ssd's (both 1000 & 2000 series) have demonstrated a succession of stability/interface issues beyond firmware updates &/or motherboard bios &/or driver resolution - the Intel X25 (initial + rev'd) & now the 510's have not been problematic.

Several additional Marvell controller based ssd's - short term comparisons - also were not problematic. Any ssd should "drop-in & function" or we are all wasting our time...

First, in particular OCZ has a corporate culture and corporate business plan embracing abusive customer service. This is not racist, as I have arranged for several individuals / various regions / f&m / to sample and have observed pointedly abusive responses - 2yr5mo extant... with user ssd issues always being heavily placed on chipset manufacturers, closely followed by "user doesn't know how to o.c. motherboard, NOW closely followed by "We, OCZ, ONLY Support Motherboards operating at Chipset Specs - ie: NO O.C.'g of Motherboards NOW Recognized By OCZ!

In other words "NO RMA's of OCZ SSD's" --- unreasonable & unsustainable nearterm given extremely limited product line-up... enterprise buyers will walk...

Yes, I have direct personal experience with OCZ, but my genuine interest is their sales volume of Sandforce controller based ssd's.

Second, there is the matter of start-up fabless Sandforce now having exhausted A, B, C & D Funding Rounds, and Round D, 25mil usd will be the final round unless the Series 2000 controllers are a runaway marketing success - whether the controllers are reliable or not - and said controllers have been foisted on users prematurely as an act of desparation AND YOU DARE ASK "WHATS UP WITH MY POSTS?"

The SATA 2.6 spec MB chipsets are functioning correctly. Sandforce is deflecting Series 2000 controller non-compatibility issues using ssd resellers & legions of unpaid fanboi's to flog disfunctional ssd's on users...

Sandforce is presently demonstrating that there isn't any need for "industry specification ratification" when the continuing smoke/mirrors/dog&pony show is making "reasonable users" go through all manner of technical contortions to have "largely functional" series 2000 ssd's ONLY EXPERIENCE OCCASIONAL BSOD's/System Slowdowns/Hanging!!!

You Are Truly Joking If This Is Normal Product Introduction...

Lastly, my direct personal experience is that there is virtually NO realworld productivity difference between sandforce ssd's & intel ssd's - synthetic benchmarks aside - 7/24 reliability combined with significant throughput increase will always prevail... Sandforce has become a liability for the principle investors...
 
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e-drood

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Jun 15, 2011
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groberts101, I enjoy subtle irony. The principle ssd market is enterprise. Which phrase is MOST associated with enterprise ssd marketing? Why "Mission Critical'', of course!

and this truly describes sandforce series 2000 controller reliability, truly...

taking away with one hand, giving back abit with the other hand: the sf 2000 controller is also experiencing thermal instability - too many corners cut - too rushed to marketplace...
 
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e-drood

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Jun 15, 2011
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re: sf controller chip thermal issues - sandforce hedged by developing mech hdd controller chip in parallel w/ nand/ssd controllers - seagate is present mech hdd sf customer

unfortunately while the series 1000 controller chip power regulation circuits could be shared with the mech hdd controller power regulation requirements, the new series 2000 ssd controller really needed a more substantial power reg design - the initial release to odm's of the series 2000 controller chip has not yet been revised - marginal & subject to thermal peaking controlled by "very brief" power downs at infrequent random times during ssd operation - yes firmware can influence frequency of power downs to protect circuitry, but alternative will be damaging thermal overload if completely ignored - solution will be revised power reg marchitecture... later in controller production cycle
 

groberts101

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
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I have direct personal experience w/ OCZ V2, V3 & V3 Max used as boot drive + mech hdd + raid (ssd x4) as Sandforce controller function is of interest to me. Intel ssd's in same system config running separate / parallel - same os throughout. I think your full of it and it's flowing out your mouth at this point. Put yer money where yer mouth is here. Let's talk about the inner workings/algorithms of these drives if your so.. "up".. on them. How's about a simple screen shot of that max IOPS? Love to see that 4x SSD raid screen too. Methinks BULLS*IT WALKS. lol

The Sandforce controller based ssd's (both 1000 & 2000 series) have demonstrated a succession of stability/interface issues beyond firmware updates &/or motherboard bios &/or driver resolution - the Intel X25 (initial + rev'd) have not been problematic. You call bricked drives and lack of trim on initial release NON-problematic? I'm only now starting to realize how vast your knowledge really is.

Several Marvell controller based ssd's - short term comparisons - also were not problematic. Any ssd should "drop-in & function" or we are all wasting our time... Again with the vast knowledge here. Ummm?.. poor GC and recovery issues? Even pulled up a little excerpt from the Saviour himself for you to partake of.
just weeks after I got my C300, the drive stopped working. Crucial sent me another drive which didn’t die, but let me discover that the C300 had serious issues when it came to worst case scenario performance. Similar to the original X25-M firmware when given a random enough workload, the RealSSD C300 could be backed into a corner that it would never get out of.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3812/the-ssd-diaries-crucials-realssd-c300 and that's nothing compared to the multitude of posts I read over at Crucials forums about those drives issues early on. You really need to go back to SSD school and study here cause you're just sinking faster and faster by the post.

First, in particular OCZ has a corporate culture and corporate business plan embracing abusive customer service. This is not racist, as I have arranged for several individuals / various regions / f&m / to sample and have observed pointedly abusive responses - 2yr5mo extant... HAHA.. you have such pull in this world that you have OCZ forum watchdogs?.. NOW THAT'S FUNNY STUFF! with user ssd issues always being heavily placed on chipset manufacturers, closely followed by "user doesn't know how to o.c. motherboard, NOW closely followed by "We, OCZ, ONLY Support Motherboards operating at Chipset Specs - ie: NO O.C.'g of Motherboards NOW Recognized By OCZ! LOL.. much of that is taken out of context and leveraged for your own personal interpretation/vendetta against that company. Let's back up to the beginning of this post.. you mean to tell me you have all those SSD's in your system from a company that you despise and resent so much? ESPECIALLY considering they are so "problematic" and not any faster than your Intel? Wouldn't the lie make more sense if you had many Intel drives(which you love) with only 1 OCZ SSD(which you hate)/you should conjur it to be the Max IOPS version too since that's such a cool drive to have these days). Something stinks of BULLSH*T here.

In other words "NO RMA's of OCZ SSD's" --- unreasonable & unsustainable nearterm given extremely limited product line-up... enterprise buyers will walk... Holy SH*T dude! No RMA's???.. do you even read that forum?.. they offer it freely whenever a customer doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to deal with a lengthy troubleshooting protocol! OCZ RARELY denies a RMA request. It's a fact and many applaude them for that very fact even when they do have issues. Get some facts straight at least once in all this rambling babble of a post. Seriously.

Yes, I have direct personal experience with OCZ(seems highly doubtful so far with all the incorrect facts given here), but my genuine interest is their sales volume of Sandforce controller based ssd's. Which is known by what means or manner? Please tell me you have a mole inside that make you privy to that info! That would just be the icing on the cake here. :D

Second, there is the matter of start-up fabless Sandforce now having exhausted A, B, C & D Funding Rounds, and Round D, 25mil usd will be the final round unless the Series 2000 controllers are a runaway marketing success - whether the controllers are reliable or not - and said controllers have been foisted on users prematurely as an act of desparation AND YOU DARE ASK "WHATS UP WITH MY POSTS?" Not so much what's up with your posts(because it's becoming painfully obvious you don't know Sandforce from yer A*S or a hole in the ground)?.. but more like where do you concoct all this info from? Do you realize that Sandforce has grown and ventured into an agreement with Intel? Doesn't sound like the last breaths of a company on its way out to me. Intel wouldn't even touch a partner that it wasn't 100% sure would be there to help it make money longterm. Now there's a fact for ya to chew on. It helps to think.. study facts.. THEN post. :hmm:

The SATA 2.6 spec MB chipsets are functioning correctly. Sandforce is deflecting Series 2000 controller non-compatibility issues using ssd resellers & legions of unpaid fanboi's to flog disfunctional ssd's on users... sigh.. I'm under NDA at the moment and would love to enlighten you on that subject(and the players involved which actually does involve Sandforce as well).. but you seem to have it all figured out already and would be a waste of breath it seems.

And I'm sure you meant "manufacturers" since no one "resells" a Sandforce SSD as they don't even manufacture them. You are almost right about the "unpaid fanboi's" thing though. :D My spin on that is that sometimes you have to fight evil?.. with evil. I just share what I know to be fact.. and many just share what they think based on speculation and breed negativity because they are miserable and don't have any other outlets besides a forum to vent it. You seem to have the market share for the latter just in this thread alone. Can't wait to see all the future enlightenments you have to share with all the other anti-OCZ communists around here.

Sandforce is presently demonstrating that there isn't any need for "industry specification ratification" when the continuing smoke/mirrors/dog&pony show is making "reasonable users" go through all manner of technical contortions to have "largely functional" series 2000 ssd's ONLY EXPERIENCE OCCASIONAL BSOD's/System Slowdowns/Hanging!!! By "reasonable users" I assume you mean.. "affected users"? And some are finding their way through the darkness already. 2.08 firmware has helped a few so far(granted.. not nearly enough to even warrant its release), as have jumping through the hoops to SE and start fresh with recommended currently known workarounds for the underlying issues here. Stay tuned, watch them sort through it, and see where some of the final blame falls in the end(maybe even the saviour himself will elaborate in an editorial, eh?). It won't be entirely where you think and Sandforce can only do so much to circumvent the underlying issues, although it's quite obvious they should share blame,IMO. Again with the NDA stuff though. Not that I would entertain you with the details. You'd just have to follow around and pick it up from others being helped along with their issues. Yours are far too large for any one post of mine to help a great deal and it's pretty tough to fill a cup that's already full. :eek:

You Are Truly Joking If This Is Normal Product Introduction... For sandforce controlled drives? it surely is. Doesn't have to be right or wrong and is just the way it's been since they came out more than a year ago. It's regardless of manufacturer using their chips too.

Lastly, my direct personal experience is that there is virtually NO realworld productivity difference between sandforce ssd's & intel ssd's - synthetic benchmarks aside - 7/24 reliability combined with significant throughput increase will always prevail... :D NOW I KNOW YOU DON'T OWN ONE! or at least you don't actually write to your Intel drives. LOL Sandforce has become a liability for the principle investors...

Yeah.. a "liability" all the way to the bank!
 

e-drood

Member
Jun 15, 2011
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is it just me, or are there far, far too many explanations, corrective statements and general OCZ employees on most recognized tech forums...

when having a really bad successive weeks, attack, attack, attack to distract users from YOUR Problems --- and I really thought south korea would have written a fm update & saved their benefactor further loss of face --- your enterprise sales have tanked this time, lad

your nda against my annual salary/perf bonus, chief

I guess it really comes down to Just How Good SF's Newest FM Update actually turns out to be

if this one isn't truly miraculous, more bs, more red letter nonsense, just new "problems caused by others"

the sandforce 2000 series controller is inherently flawed beyond firmware update salvage...
 
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e-drood

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Jun 15, 2011
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yes intel has a memorandum of understanding re: nand memory controllers; nothing has yet evolved to Developer Conference level - conceptual only - and it gives intel insight into potential competition

your lads in asia go out in the evening, the culture is entirely different from your frame of reference and face is paramount; better not to lose face than sit quietly during table talk...

sata 2.6 (sata3 / 6gbps) is a hella leap let's see how sf does sf lab benches don't mean squat in realworld environment, only important to people with NDA's to boast about...

south korea should really have sorted out your fm issues, if hardware salvagable...
and than again, so should sf, and you ask whether intel will risk cred w/sf controller design?
 

e-drood

Member
Jun 15, 2011
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http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?90177-This-forum-is-a-mess

wow, day-and-night difference in OCZ Customer Service: Tony-the-Tiger hasn't deleted the posts, Tony & Praz haven't threatened to snoop OPs' isp & sik OCZ lawyers on OPs' BUT NO REAL INFORMATION PROVIDED To OCZ Customers...

I bet groberts101 would have been more helpful

still awaiting the latest firmware drop... my bad, I just realized this is ONLY a work in process, not a finished product was there any need to even purchase latest ocz ssd's; should have waited for this "beautiful cake" to finally emerge from baker's oven, instead of tying up my money in paper weights gathering dust... certainly would have saved a lot of time installing os & apps... live & learn
 

=Wendy=

Senior member
Nov 7, 2009
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re: sf controller chip thermal issues - sandforce hedged by developing mech hdd controller chip in parallel w/ nand/ssd controllers - seagate is present mech hdd sf customer

unfortunately while the series 1000 controller chip power regulation circuits could be shared with the mech hdd controller power regulation requirements, the new series 2000 ssd controller really needed a more substantial power reg design - the initial release to odm's of the series 2000 controller chip has not yet been revised - marginal & subject to thermal peaking controlled by "very brief" power downs at infrequent random times during ssd operation - yes firmware can influence frequency of power downs to protect circuitry, but alternative will be damaging thermal overload if completely ignored - solution will be revised power reg marchitecture... later in controller production cycle
Where are you getting this information, or are you basing this information on your own assumptions?
 

e-drood

Member
Jun 15, 2011
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good evening, wendy collective, re: seagate/sf hdd controllers - general industry knowledge, press releases & financial reports re:thermal issues - sf lab gossip & confirmation by direct placement of thermal sensor on sf controller on several over-the-counter samples of v3 ssd's & do realtime logging of ssd overlayed on deltaT & gossip in "asia" - attend any industry shows in asia this year? still thinking about it- you're observing random temp DECREASES plotted as intersection w/BSOD's (or stuttering) - there are no secrets in asia & the "chinese firms" are reverse engineering everything hitech, best regards to the New Hebrides...
 

e-drood

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Jun 15, 2011
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wendy c. sf may be n.america but fab is in "asia" & no secrets - what nda's... more entertainment monies are spent at industry shows obtaining information, than new orders/clients...
 

=Wendy=

Senior member
Nov 7, 2009
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@e-drood
So basically you are saying that most of it is based on "gossip", and there is no published information that we can all read on these issues that has supposedly been tested, anywhere on the Internet?