New Mafia II PhysX ON/OFF video.

[WelshBloke]

The only people who "hate" on physx are usually people who don't own a video card with its capabilities and are jealous.

This is quite obviously bullshit

Why hate on extra eyecandy, I'm sure if I was a third party that uses physx for both Ati and nvidia cards, there wouldn't be a bunch of thread derailers in this thread.
Its just that simple.

How about not hating on the slightly lame graphics which make the game look worse but complaining that there's nothing of substance there.


We allow cussing in P&N and OT, not in the tech forums.

Moderator Idontcare

 

[BenSkywalker]

i highly doubt you have fired "likely easily over 100k" ammunition rounds. Let me ask you how long that took, you can split it up in hours per day per year if you like. please entertain me.

A brick of .22 shells is ~$10- that's 500 rounds. Take a 10/22 with fifty round clips and you can go through a brick in fifteen minutes. So if you pushed it it would take about 50 hours to hit 100K rounds. I got my first 50 round clip three years prior to getting my SNES(at launch). Back in the 80s there wasn't exactly a lot to do in NH, we used to go out shooting all the time. We would normally grab a few bricks and a few boxes of higher power rounds(significantly more costly). Where I'm from, hitting ~100K rounds fired at my age doesn't even rate me as an enthusiast shooter. It may be a lot more complicated in other areas, around here you used to be able to just drive to pretty much any non farm field and set up some targets and have fun for the afternoon.

and i cant but do a /facepalm at the "hitting what should be one of the most bullet resistant rocks on Earth"

How would you phrase that? I supposed that it is possible that that particular granite rock had a particularly high concentration of quartz making it more brittle, however it did not appear to be refracting light at all which is normally the tell tale sign for granite with high quartz concentration. Its usually around ~+200 MPa so it has considerable hardness, but doesn't tend to be brittle. How about I turn the phrase a bit, what rock would withstand a bullet better then granite?

How about not hating on the slightly lame graphics which make the game look worse but complaining that there's nothing of substance there.

For its' type of game, Mafia2 has *BY FAR* the best graphics I've ever seen. GTA4 and SaintsRow 2 aren't even close, and they are the only ones I can think of that approach the level of complexity of Mafia2. That is *ignoring* PhysX completely, just the basic graphics.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Well, like others, first thing that came to mind when I watched that video was "Max Payne", and how it was done 9 years ago

Yeah, of course it wasnt "as good", duh... But then again it didnt halve your performance or need specific vendor card, so it was far superior just by that

The fact that you have Nvidia users saying they played with PhysX off speaks for itself, really

And like others have said, the problem I have with this is they intentionally cripple several effects that would normally be there, just to make PhysX look good... How you can prefer a company that constantly plays "dirty" like this is beyond me

I think every so called "AMD fan" on this forum has no problem with Nvidias technology whatsoever, its their business practices that put people off

 

[Dankk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rMPYobj0g0

I get a good chuckle when people talk about Max Payne, the game was terribly ugly when new, it was shockingly bad technology wise the day it came out. Max Payne looked very bad by console standards the year it came out- it couldn't even compete with Halo. It's nice that some people can remember ejecting brass and equate that to an engine that has twice as many particles on screen at once as Max Payne had polygons, but really it's just an obnoxiously bad game to use as a comparison. If you want to talk about a game with ejecting brass, why not Duke Nukem?

Not gonna lie, I've actually never played Max Payne before, but that video really made me want to try it.

 

[HendrixFan]

http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT070510142143

This was linked off of wikipedia and this is from the wikipedia page:

On 5 July 2010, Real World Technologies published an analysis[20] of the PhysX architecture. It has been verified that most of the code used in PhysX applications is based on the surpassed x87 instructions, without any multi-threading optimization. This would lead to the well-known performance loss that CPUs have when elaborating PhysX code. The article also suggests that such a difference between CPUs and nVidia GPUs would substantially drop or disappear if PhysX code would be written with SSE instructions, introduced in 1999 and supported by almost every modern computer.

 

[golem]

Well, like others, first thing that came to mind when I watched that video was "Max Payne", and how it was done 9 years ago

Yeah, of course it wasnt "as good", duh... But then again it didnt halve your performance or need specific vendor card, so it was far superior just by that

The fact that you have Nvidia users saying they played with PhysX off speaks for itself, really

And like others have said, the problem I have with this is they intentionally cripple several effects that would normally be there, just to make PhysX look good... How you can prefer a company that constantly plays "dirty" like this is beyond me

I think every so called "AMD fan" on this forum has no problem with Nvidias technology whatsoever, its their business practices that put people off

Max Payne was a first person shooter designed for computers.

This is a sandbox game that was designed for consoles. If you can find another sandbox game designed for the console with better effects then complain otherwise, not the same thing at all.

Some people keep on saying effects were "crippled" by comparing games in other genres or developed for the PC, how is this a valid argument at all? Find a game in a similar genre with similiar development restrictions then complain.

 

[Keysplayr]

Well, like others, first thing that came to mind when I watched that video was "Max Payne", and how it was done 9 years ago

Yeah, of course it wasnt "as good", duh... But then again it didnt halve your performance or need specific vendor card, so it was far superior just by that

The fact that you have Nvidia users saying they played with PhysX off speaks for itself, really

And like others have said, the problem I have with this is they intentionally cripple several effects that would normally be there, just to make PhysX look good... How you can prefer a company that constantly plays "dirty" like this is beyond me

I think every so called "AMD fan" on this forum has no problem with Nvidias technology whatsoever, its their business practices that put people off

AFAIK, you coudn't "turn off" physics in Max Payne. They were always on. So, maybe the performance was already "halved" of what it could have been without any of the physics content? I sure hope you don't think rendering all the extra particles and pieces of wood was for free.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Not gonna lie, I've actually never played Max Payne before, but that video really made me want to try it.

It's a cinematic style film noir approach to story telling, and it is very much a story driven game. I don't want to talk you out of it, but let's say most of the levels are a bit repetitive(the final level, IMO, was brilliant however). If you enjoy the way that they tell the story, you will probably really enjoy the game- should be dirt cheap now too.

This was linked off of wikipedia and this is from the wikipedia page:

Wiki FTL-

It has been verified that most of the code used in PhysX applications is based on the surpassed x87 instructions, without any multi-threading optimization

Mafia2 makes use of multi threading for PhysX- if developers do or not is entirely up to them. Nothing in the SDK prevents it at all, but it doesn't do it for free.

 

[Kenmitch]

http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT070510142143

This was linked off of wikipedia and this is from the wikipedia page:

Things like this as with alot of questions just get skipped over with no response for the most part around here....Go figure

 

[Dankk]

Max Payne is a cinematic style film noir approach to story telling, and it is very much a story driven game [...] If you enjoy the way that they tell the story, you will probably really enjoy the game- should be dirt cheap now too.

I'm one of the few people who actually really liked Indigo Prophecy for this reason. The cinematic storyline was great. So I guess I should probably play it then, huh?



...Oh, and uhh, to stay on topic. I played the Mafia II demo and it was fun. runs

 

[golem]

Things like this as with alot of questions just get skipped over with no response for the most part around here....Go figure

It's just logic and business.

Intel has Havok, but hasn't really done anything with it for a while. (or at least I haven't heard of anything)

AMD has press releases pledging support for open standards without actually providing much support (Nvidia has more software/dev support for OpenCL and Directcompute than AMD does).

Nvidia supports physics on their cards (tho. unfortunately not if ATI is the primary gpu), are they supposed to enhance/support physics on Intel/AMD CPUS and AMD GPUS when Intel and AMD don't?

So Nvidia a villain for not being a charity and Intel and AMD are victims for doing squat?

 

[BenSkywalker]

Things like this as with alot of questions just get skipped over with no response for the most part around here....Go figure

I already responded to the point directly in this thread, however we had an entire thread about that topic when it first came out. Unfortunately the article jumped to conclusions solely based on a single title they tested, numerous tests are available that show different results as far as threading goes, in terms of supporting SIMD- that's another subject(one which people actually recompiled code bases to get running with and without SSE and found little difference). The thread is here somewhere, forget what the title was.

So I guess I should probably play it then, huh?

It's probably like $5, so why the hell not?

...Oh, and uhh, to stay on topic. I played the Mafia II demo and it was fun.

I'm hoping now that eVGA is giving it away then a lot of other people will actually play the full game and wrap their heads around what the engine is doing more thoroughly. Unlike most game demos, the scope of the game is very important in Mafia2 and you can't see that in the demo.

 

[happy medium]

Quote:
Originally Posted by happy medium

The only people who "hate" on physx are usually people who don't own a video card with its capabilities and are jealous.

Welshbloke said:
This is quite obviously bullshit
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy medium
Why hate on extra eyecandy, I'm sure if I was a third party that uses physx for both Ati and nvidia cards, there wouldn't be a bunch of thread derailers in this thread.
Its just that simple.

Welshbloke said:
How about not hating on the slightly lame graphics which make the game look worse but complaining that there's nothing of substance there.

SO what is wrong with extra eyecandy for free?
If you don't like it you just turn it down or off, right?
Its a optional free feature, whats not to like.
What is it exactly, you don't like about the FREE feature?

As a user of a ATI card, I'd sure like to have the option to try it, why not?

Edit: I just noticed you can get a free copy of Mafia 2 with the puchase of a Evga gtx400 series card.
They even give you a game for free! How can you not like it?

 

[Grooveriding]

SO what is wrong with extra eyecandy for free?
If you don't like it you just turn it down or off, right?
Its a optional free feature, whats not to like.
What is it exactly, you don't like about the FREE feature?

As a user of a ATI card, I'd sure like to have the option to try it, why not?

What a completely context lacking, garbage statement.

The biggest problem with physx is that it is not free. In the case of Mafia 2, the high setting halves your framerate for little to no improvement in visual quality.

In many people's opinions it is reduced image quality as it hits their framerates so hard and the physx effects look so overdone and you only see them in small parts of the game, for example, if you stop to blast away at a wall and look at chunks of weird rocks on the floor.

physx is not free at all, it incurs a huge framerate hit. Huge, absolutely huge in consideration of how little it adds to the game. It's crap, it really is just terrible.

Not surprised at this thread, nvidia is on the ropes in the coming months with their whole lineup being negated by ATI's 6XXX series coming out.

So expect to hear lots more garbage and crap about physx and 3d in the coming months, because nvidia is going to be coming short for another good six months, maybe more this time, on what really matters. Framerates.

 

[golem]

What a completely context lacking, garbage statement.

The biggest problem with physx is that it is not free. In the case of Mafia 2, the high setting halves your framerate for little to no improvement in visual quality.

In many people's opinions it is reduced image quality as it hits their framerates so hard and the physx effects look so overdone and you only see them in small parts of the game, for example, if you stop to blast away at a wall and look at chunks of weird rocks on the floor.

physx is not free at all, it incurs a huge framerate hit. Huge, absolutely huge in consideration of how little it adds to the game. It's crap, it really is just terrible.

Not surprised at this thread, nvidia is on the ropes in the coming months with their whole lineup being negated by ATI's 6XXX series coming out.

So expect to hear lots more garbage and crap about physx and 3d in the coming months, because nvidia is going to be coming short for another good six months, maybe more this time, on what really matters. Framerates.

Then turn it off. No one is forcing you to turn it on. It's there if you want it, off if you don't.

 

[Kenmitch]

Then turn it off. No one is forcing you to turn it on. It's there if you want it, off if you don't.

I think the point he's trying to make is something like the juice isn't worth the squeeze!

 

[golem]

I think the point he's trying to make is something like the juice isn't worth the squeeze!

The whole post was weird anyway.

The poster he was responding to was talking about free in terms of monetary cost and he responds with a long post on cost in terms of FPS vs. visual quality and then goes further off track with how physx is a smokescreen because of the ATI 6xxx.

I just responding if physx offends him so much, just turn it off.

 

[happy medium]

What a completely context lacking, garbage statement.

The biggest problem with physx is that it is not free. In the case of Mafia 2, the high setting halves your framerate for little to no improvement in visual quality.

In many people's opinions it is reduced image quality as it hits their framerates so hard and the physx effects look so overdone and you only see them in small parts of the game, for example, if you stop to blast away at a wall and look at chunks of weird rocks on the floor.

physx is not free at all, it incurs a huge framerate hit. Huge, absolutely huge in consideration of how little it adds to the game. It's crap, it really is just terrible.

Not surprised at this thread, nvidia is on the ropes in the coming months with their whole lineup being negated by ATI's 6XXX series coming out.

So expect to hear lots more garbage and crap about physx and 3d in the coming months, because nvidia is going to be coming short for another good six months, maybe more this time, on what really matters. Framerates.

I think you misunderstood. I meant free, as in money, as in cost you nothing.
Whats wrong with a free feature that you can turn on or off?
WHATS NOT TO LIKE?
Its a plus no matter how you look at it.

It's like saying to a salesman " na I don't want the extra bling rims for free on my new Mustang. Salesman says "why not sir"? Well because they are made by a compeditor I don't like. Salesman turns and says to himself "what a moron".

I just don't get some of you guys.
"If its free its for me"

To much of a performance hit? Try med physx? Some is better then none, I allways say.

 

[Grooveriding]

I think you misunderstood. I meant free, as in money, as in cost you nothing.
Whats wrong with a free feature that you can turn on or off?
WHATS NOT TO LIKE?
Its a plus no matter how you look at it.

It's like saying to a salesman " na I don't want the extra bling rims for free on my new Mustang. Salesman says "why not sir"? Well because they are made by a compeditor I don't like. Salesman turns and says to himself "what a moron".

I just don't get some of you guys.
"If its free its for me"

To much of a performance hit? Try med physx? Some is better then none, I allways say.

It's not free, video cards cost money. Physx takes up way too much of a video card's resources to enable it, you need to spend more money on video cards to have more power to run it.

It is just that terrible and that much of a resource hog. High settings in Mafia 2 cut your frames in half.

It's a complete joke.

 

[happy medium]

It's not free, video cards cost money. Physx takes up way too much of a video card's resources to enable it, you need to spend more money on video cards to have more power to run it.

It is just that terrible and that much of a resource hog. High settings in Mafia 2 cut your frames in half.

It's a complete joke.

Here use this tweak guide, it will help.

http://physxinfo.com/news/3617/mafia-ii-benchmark-physx-comparison/

 

[tviceman]

It's not free, video cards cost money. Physx takes up way too much of a video card's resources to enable it, you need to spend more money on video cards to have more power to run it.

It is just that terrible and that much of a resource hog. High settings in Mafia 2 cut your frames in half.

It's a complete joke.

Well thankfully there are different levels of physx. Doing what Benskywalker says, removing the clothing physx except for vito's, gives extremely playable frame rates with physx remaining on otherwise high settings. So in that case cutting 30% off 80-90 fps is a non issue because you're still going to get 50-60 fps.

I'd rather have higher graphical fidelity and/or effects at 50 fps than non of the above at 100 fps.

EDIT: happy medium went the extra mile for you and posted the tweak guide and how to get ultra high frame rates in conjunction with using the physx debris and the apex clothing on vito.

 

[Grooveriding]

Well thankfully there are different levels of physx. Doing what Benskywalker says, removing the clothing physx except for vito's, gives extremely playable frame rates with physx remaining on otherwise high settings. So in that case cutting 30% off 80-90 fps is a non issue because you're still going to get 50-60 fps.

I'd rather have higher graphical fidelity and/or effects at 50 fps than non of the above at 100 fps.

EDIT: happy medium went the extra mile for you and posted the tweak guide and how to get ultra high frame rates in conjunction with using the physx debris and the apex clothing on vito.

Why should I have to tweak it ?

So you need to remove a large portion of the physx functionality to have a playable experience in Mafia 2.

What's the point in the physx features then ? Why should such a minimal visual impact take up so much resource wise ? Why are there games with CPU physics that are virtually the same that don't crush my framerate ?

Is it just a gimmick to sell more cards due to physx being unreasonably stressful on video cards for such a small visual impact ? Who knows, either way, it's crap.

It's a poor feature and one not worthy of consideration when buying an nvidia card.

Mafia 2 looks like a console port, the graphics are nothing special, game could be from 2006.

Excellent fun game, but physx is adding nothing to it but a framerate hit.

There are two video cards. One can run Crysis at 30fps and extrapolate that performance to other games, this card can also run gpu physx in the 10 or so games that support it out of the thousands of games on the market. The other card can run Crysis at 45fps and extrapolate that performance to other games but cannot run gpu physx. Which card do you buy ?

The sucker buys card number 1.

 

[Wreckage]

The only people who "hate" on physx are usually people who don't own a video card with its capabilities and are jealous.

True.

 

[happy medium]

Why should I have to tweak it ?

The same reason people tweak Metro, GTA4 and many other games.
Because you get 95 percent of the visual quality, and much better framerates.

Remember most people have 20,22 and mabe 24 inch monitors, it doesen't take much to run at higher settings and get much better framerates then you with your 30 inch 2500x1600 monitor. I can see why you are complaining.

I can see why you and the other 1 percent of the gaming community running that resloution would complain, but for an extra $100 over the 2 or 3 thousand you allready spent, you could buy a pyhsx card and get 30 percent more performance.

Edit: but instead it seems easier to jump in and derail physx threads, then play the game "the way it's meant to be played"

 

[Grooveriding]

The same reason people tweak Metro, GTA4 and many other games.
Because you get 95 percent of the visual quality, and much better framerates.

Remember most people have 20,22 and mabe 24 inch monitors, it doesen't take much to run at higher settings and get much better framerates then you with your 30 inch 2500x1600 monitor. I can see why you are complaining.

I can see why you and the other 1 percent of the gaming community running that resloution would complain, but for an extra $100 over the 2 or 3 thousand you allready spent, you could buy a pyhsx card and get 30 percent more performance.

The 50% performance hit for physx on high in this game is near universal, regardless of resolution.

After you remove the cloth effects, you're left with chunks of rocks.

I'm out of this, you don't even have a frame of reference for the physx in this game or its performance hit, as you are currently running an ATI card.

Really puzzled at where you get your context and opinion and pull these 95% visual quality numbers from. Thin air, apparently.

Just an nvidia user chiming in that physx is really underwhelming and not impressive in the least in the small handful of games that use it and the performance hit that it incurs is ridiculous for the very small difference it will make by turning it on in game.