New machine build 2500k vs 3570k

[Trajan45]

Hi all, I’m starting to gather parts to build a new machine. I had a few questions, it seems better to break each question out and post them in the appropriate forums.


I’ve been looking at the i5-3570K and the i5-2500K for my new build. Initially I was just going to get the latest and greatest in the Ivy Bridge, but I’ve been reading some comments about lower build quality of the 3570k. “The 3570k chip uses a thermal compound(similar to cheap thermal paste) between the chip and IHS, and the IHS is stuck to pcb using pliable type of glue.Anyone who has experience with liquid steel,liquid solder,epoxies,sealers,thermal compounds etc.. can tell you that, no matter how much they "guarantee" not to shrink,become brittle or crack, they all do, especially when there is heat involved.” Also a YouTube video of someone replacing the thermal paste and having temps drop 20 degrees.


Since the i5-2500K is the same price and works with a Z77 motherboard, is there any reason I should go for the 3570k? (I don’t plan on running 4 GPU’s that would need the PCIe v3). This is mostly a gaming machine and I was planning on a mild overclock, 4ghz-4.2ghz (I was thinking COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO for HS).



Thanks for any insight.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Get the 3570K. The thermal issue is way overblown and it will easily do 4-4.2Ghz.

The 3570K is also around 5% faster at the same clock. So 4Ghz 3570K= 4.2Ghz 2500K. And the 3570K produces alot less heat due to lower powerdraw.

 

[Ed1]

I would get the 3570k too, I did as i thought between 2500/2600k vs 3570/3770k's .

Its not the paste that is the issue its than it seems Intel made a gap of 0.006" between core and IHS .
Check out the post here on delidding, there is a lot of good info on it .

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2261855

even if you have no intention of modding the chip, the info there is good for general OC .

I have 3570k , hyper 212evo , Asus P8Z77 v pro , I am at 40, 40 ,39, 38 multipliers my temps with prime95 are a max temp on highest core 62c with plot graph running avg 57 range with all cores avg around 52c .
these temps are with ambient temp of 24c in a Corsair 500r case , idle temps are around 27-29c .

 

[BonzaiDuck]

For a stock-clocked system, then Ivy Bridge "Yes."
For a mildly over-clocked system, IB probably -- still "Yes."
To squeeze blood out of the over-clocking stone -- Maybe too much uncertainty for the IB, unless you're inclined to deal with the gap, the TIM, etc. Without that sort of willingness, it could be "luck of the draw."

Me -- I've got a Sandy i7-2600K @ 4.60Ghz built in summer, 2011. I'm still happier than a pig in s*** with it . . .

 

[dma0991]

Most IB will do 4.5GHz without much issues provided that you have decent cooling. At stock or less than 4.2GHz overclock, SB or IB makes negligible difference in idle and load temps.

 

[IntelEnthusiast]

I have done very well with my Intel® Core™ i5-3570K. I think I would stay with it and see what the maximum you can push it to without increasing the voltage. I have heard from a number of people that they have reached 4.2GHz or 4.3GHz without upping the voltage.

 

[Yuriman]

I have done very well with my Intel® Core™ i5-3570K. I think I would stay with it and see what the maximum you can push it to without increasing the voltage. I have heard from a number of people that they have reached 4.2GHz or 4.3GHz without upping the voltage.

This is my experience. My chip (which seems average or perhaps below average) will crank up to 4.3ghz without any voltage changes, and 4.4ghz requires only a very minor overvolt. Beyond that I begin to need a lot more voltage to get higher clocks, and with the chip as it was stock I was unable to get beyond 4.6ghz due to a combination needing more voltage and thus running into thermal limitations.

If you'd be happy with a 4.6ghz Ivy Bridge, which would perform something like a 4.8ghz Sandy Bridge, go Ivy. If you want to break 5ghz, Ivy Bridge isn't a good choice.

 

[Arkaign]

Same price? Even though I had a horrible experience personally with IB, I'd say 3570K.

If you have a MC around, 2500K makes sense to me though. I think it was $159 vs. $199 or something there. It's really a wash in terms of performance, unless you get a particulary terrible or amazing chip. IB is so incremental that it's idiotic to replace a SB with an IB, and not really worth worrying about in either way. Get whatever's cheaper, and if IB is the same price, get that.

 

[Trajan45]

Thanks for the replies! My concern with the 3570K is that while many posts talk about how it can handle more heat and consumes less power, it does end up running hotter. While I don't plan on building a "silent" gaming rig, I do like to lean towards that side of the spectrum. In my head I keep thinking that if the 3570K(@4ghz) is 10 degree's hotter than the 2500K(@4.2ghz), that the fans in the case will have to work harder to cool the 3570K, and thus make more noise. I'm I thinking about this right?

EDIT: I was planning on using a Fractal Designs R4 Case. I'm still not sure about a HS yet. I've been researching the H60's, Cm 212 Evo, and NH-D14.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Thanks for the replies! My concern with the 3570K is that while many posts talk about how it can handle more heat and consumes less power, it does end up running hotter. While I don't plan on building a "silent" gaming rig, I do like to lean towards that side of the spectrum. In my head I keep thinking that if the 3570K(@4ghz) is 10 degree's hotter than the 2500K(@4.2ghz), that the fans in the case will have to work harder to cool the 3570K, and thus make more noise. I'm I thinking about this right?

The 3570K produce less heat, meaning your fans will have to work less. Less heat spreads to GFX, Mobo etc.

Plus TJmax is 105C. Its designed for it.

 

[Yuriman]

Ivy Bridge puts out less heat doing the same work. They tend to run hotter for a variety of reasons, but temperature != heat output. With an Ivy chip you'll need fewer fans or can spin them more slowly because there is less heat to remove from your system.

EDIT: ShintaiDK beat me =P

My Ivy Bridge chip can hit the upper 90's celsius at 4.6ghz but if it will run at that temperature for many years without issue, and if it consumes less power and is faster per clock than Sandy Bridge, why not?

 

[Arkaign]

Thanks for the replies! My concern with the 3570K is that while many posts talk about how it can handle more heat and consumes less power, it does end up running hotter. While I don't plan on building a "silent" gaming rig, I do like to lean towards that side of the spectrum. In my head I keep thinking that if the 3570K(@4ghz) is 10 degree's hotter than the 2500K(@4.2ghz), that the fans in the case will have to work harder to cool the 3570K, and thus make more noise. I'm I thinking about this right?

Well, maybe this will make more sense :

For a particular speed, IB will take less volts to get there. The TIM between the CPU die on the IB and the IHS (where your heatsink connects to) is of subpar quality compared to the TIM on SB. So what you get is more heat on the die, but not on the IHS, once you start overclocking. You may see numbers which seem insane for CPU temp, like 75+C, but the actual heat coming off the heatsink/fan assembly relatively low because it's not transferring very well.

This isn't something to worry too much about. De-lidding can drop your temps on IB massively, but it's also a huge hassle. And on balance, a lower-clocked IB generally keeps up with a higher clocked SB. The SB will have a lower core temp, but be transferring more heat out through the heatsink/fan into your case, and be using a little more power.

TL : DR - It's close enough not to worry over.

 

[Arkaign]

Ivy Bridge puts out less heat doing the same work. They tend to run hotter for a variety of reasons, but temperature != heat output. With an Ivy chip you'll need fewer fans or can spin them more slowly because there is less heat to remove from your system.

EDIT: ShintaiDK beat me =P

My Ivy Bridge chip can hit the upper 90's celsius at 4.6ghz but if it will run at that temperature for many years without issue, and if it consumes less power and is faster per clock than Sandy Bridge, why not?

Upper 90s for many years? We have no idea if that's true. Electromigration may indeed become an issue. SNDS after all wasn't well understood until after some time had passed.

I'm not saying to not buy IB, but I would never want to see upper 90s on a long-term component.

I'd be much happier with cutting it to 4.4Ghz if I could get the temps down to ~75 at most.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Ivy Bridge puts out less heat doing the same work. They tend to run hotter for a variety of reasons, but temperature != heat output. With an Ivy chip you'll need fewer fans or can spin them more slowly because there is less heat to remove from your system.

EDIT: ShintaiDK beat me =P

My Ivy Bridge chip can hit the upper 90's celsius at 4.6ghz but if it will run at that temperature for many years without issue, and if it consumes less power and is faster per clock than Sandy Bridge, why not?

Not to belabor the point, but for a given workload, the ivy chip is hotter, but is a smaller die, so the total heat released will be less. Still seems like a step back to me in a way, but either chip should be great.

Edit: I guess my biggest disappointment is that there is so little increase in performance over SB. I also think that the temperature issue may be a bigger problem in laptops and ultrabooks because even though you are using less energy and releasing less total heat, you have much more limited cooling in a laptop and could run into throttling issues because the chip does run hotter. Seems to be a poor metric for a chip designed primarily for mobile.

 

[Arkaign]

Well, given what we know as fact on the voltages IB requires for a given clockspeed, and the TIM, it's actually that IB is putting out less overall heat, in a smaller area, but it is radiated less efficiently off of the CPU die due to lower quality TIM. So more CPU die heat, less heat through IHS. No, it's not my idea of a great combination either.

With low enough volts and not trying to push IB too hard, I think it's fine though.

 

[AtenRa]

No point of even thinking about getting the 2500K over the 3570K.
As others have said, the higher operating temperature is not a problem, I recommend the Ivy.

 

[Trajan45]

Awesome! Thanks for the help. What Heat-sinks are you guys using for your 3570k's? I was planning on using a Fractal Designs R4 Case. I've been researching the H60/H80, Cm 212 Evo, and NH-D14.

 

[Ed1]

with low OC, say 4.0 your temps are not going to be much higher than stock, just few c more . Its only when you go higher on OC do temps crank up .

On fan speed and its affect, my system with hyper212evo didn't really see noticeable drop in temps from stock config (idle=30%(650rpm),loaded 60%,1100rpm) to manual fan setting (idle=50% 1000rpm, loaded= 85%, 1775rpm) . that got me maybe 1c lower so probably has to do with IHS but since heat coming off HS is small the case is still cool .
My infrared gun shows HS to be like 85-88F(30-32c) under load .

 

[AtenRa]

H80 and NH-D14 are fine but i believe you could also install the H100 on the Fractal Designs R4.

 

[Arkaign]

Not to belabor the point, but for a given workload, the ivy chip is hotter, but is a smaller die, so the total heat released will be less. Still seems like a step back to me in a way, but either chip should be great.

Edit: I guess my biggest disappointment is that there is so little increase in performance over SB. I also think that the temperature issue may be a bigger problem in laptops and ultrabooks because even though you are using less energy and releasing less total heat, you have much more limited cooling in a laptop and could run into throttling issues because the chip does run hotter. Seems to be a poor metric for a chip designed primarily for mobile.

Frozen, I think you are missing one thing :

Most of the issues with IB that people complain about with the high core temps/low OC ceiling are directly related to the crappy TIM. You can find mountains of evidence of this with the delidding threads.

With laptops, there is no IHS, hence no crappy TIM, so you can get much better cooling efficiency. It's actually fantastic for a mobile CPU.

 

[Yuriman]

Arkaign, I found that delidding my chip resulted in a very minimal decrease in temperatures. Running with my waterblock mounted to the bare die vs with the IHS unmodified, I dropped about 5°c, which leaves me still WELL above the temperature Sandy Bridge would run at the same clocks. In my case I think there's something else going on.

 

[Arkaign]

Arkaign, I found that delidding my chip resulted in a very minimal decrease in temperatures. Running with my waterblock mounted to the bare die vs with the IHS unmodified, I dropped about 5°c, which leaves me still WELL above the temperature Sandy Bridge would run at the same clocks. In my case I think there's something else going on.

True, there are also die density issues. You are running beyond what most choose to push an Ivy at, and there also seems to be a quality disparity with the TIM on Ivys. Some are much better stock than others. Some have dropped 20C, those probably had much worse TIM situation than you started with. 1.3+V on Ivy is a lot after all as well.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Frozen, I think you are missing one thing :

Most of the issues with IB that people complain about with the high core temps/low OC ceiling are directly related to the crappy TIM. You can find mountains of evidence of this with the delidding threads.

With laptops, there is no IHS, hence no crappy TIM, so you can get much better cooling efficiency. It's actually fantastic for a mobile CPU.

Good to know, I wasnt aware of that, or at least I never though about it.

 

[hokies83]

If you want a cool running 5ghz Overclock you can read up on De lidding

I run at 5.1ghz 1.53v and max temps are about 81c but for the most part hang around 78c in prime 95..

Here are some pictures of my fun @_@ ! In the pictures you can really see how un even the IHS is but that is all fixed now.. i got a 25c temp drop..

Wet Sanding IHS lapping and sanding down the back lip just a bit..

 

[FreeAtLast2012]

3570K. I bought the 2500k cuz of heat issues, but I don't think it's a detrimental issue. I'd love to switch for the 3570K. Anybody want to trade?