New Mac Pro - PCIe 1.25 GB/s SSD, Dual ATI/AMD FirePro GPUs with 3X 4K monitors

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Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
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Since it still doesn't seem to be sinking in why your original point was completely moot...

Do you know what the difference is between a Hackintosh and a Macintosh?
 
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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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Since it still doesn't seem to be sinking in why your original point was completely moot...

Do you know what the difference is between a Hackintosh and a Macintosh?
Yes. My point, however, was not about that. That was a strawman you brought out, along with the, "that other commercial OS that reliably runs software for many businesses is a toy," bit. My point was that if you are not tethered to Apple, there's little reason to bother even doing a Hackintosh, compared to an OEM workstation.

Now, you are so tethered, but took another couple posts to bring up by what. Being so tethered, your options have been slower Macs or Hackintoshes, because they don't refresh the Mac pro often enough. Tethering happens the other way, too. You might find some decent CAD programs running in OS X, FI, but you will not find a CAD suite for a design niche who's whole workflow can be done in OS X. If you do that kind of work, you use Windows, because that's where your important software runs.

Most people I know that used to use Macs have gone all to non-Apple computers running Windows, now that Adobe has good support across the board for their software under Windows. That would have been a laughable idea, 5-10 years ago, of course.
 
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Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
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If you want to get technical about it a circle has an infinite number of sides. One would assume that it is the flat section with the ports on it, naturally.

Which could just as easily be the front if that's more convenient for you.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
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Once more since it STILL (amazing) hasn't sank in.... its a PC.

If that's still too subtle: it runs Windows. Natively. As in it's primary purpose for most that own the exact same hardware.
 
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TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
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Once more since it STILL (amazing) hasn't sank in.... its a PC.

If that's still too subtle: it runs Windows. Natively. As in it's primary purpose for most that own the exact same hardware.

Ok, you guys are both...

Zaap is saying that he runs Hackintoshes, not Apple hardware.

Cerb is misunderstanding that and thinking that Zaap is talking about Apple hardware and saying that if a person were using Apple hardware, then if their software isn't tied to OS X, they should just get a PC, rather than installing Windows on their Mac.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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Cerb is misunderstanding that and thinking that Zaap is talking about Apple hardware and saying that if a person were using Apple hardware, then if their software isn't tied to OS X, they should just get a PC, rather than installing Windows on their Mac.
No, there was no such misunderstanding, there. Zaap was clearly talking about putting OS X on a subset of COTS x86 hardware (Macs are PCs, but are less like COTS than big vendor PCs, and much less than white boxes). Hackintoshes aren't new, strange, or misunderstood.

Rather, that just up and using the same OS most businesses rely on for their client systems can be easier in the end, if there isn't an anchor tying one to OS X for business needs (such as Final Cut Pro being necessary, and only running in OS X, which was mentioned some posts later, after going all OS X-fanboy), or to Apple hardware (the latter being mostly gone, these days). And that in that case, workstations running Windows <version> Professional from the factory, such an HP Z-series, also offer the internal expansion and configuration options this new Mac is removing (TBF, I think it's an interesting gamble, which is why I was even reading over here in the Apple forum, and hope it leads to further non-mobile shaking up, because not one other hardware vendor has the balls to try anything remotely different, as their BODs' minds are all squarely on cost-cutting above all else).

As far as I see it, the main misunderstanding is the idea that Windows is a toy, yet OS X somehow not, which is simply silly. Neither are, and not accepting that both are highly useful, and highly reliable, yet limited by their masters' corporate designs, and the culture of developers of platform-specific software, is blind fanboy BS.
 
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TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
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No, there was no such misunderstanding, there. Zaap was clearly talking about putting OS X on a subset of COTS x86 hardware (Macs are PCs, but are less like COTS than big vendor PCs, and much less than white boxes). Hackintoshes aren't new, strange, or misunderstood.

Rather, that just up and using the same OS most businesses rely on for their client systems can be easier in the end, if there isn't an anchor tying one to OS X for business needs (such as Final Cut Pro being necessary, and only running in OS X, which was mentioned some posts later, after going all OS X-fanboy), or to Apple hardware (the latter being mostly gone, these days). And that in that case, workstations running Windows <version> Professional from the factory, such an HP Z-series, also offer the internal expansion and configuration options this new Mac is removing (TBF, I think it's an interesting gamble, which is why I was even reading over here in the Apple forum, and hope it leads to further non-mobile shaking up, because not one other hardware vendor has the balls to try anything remotely different, as their BODs' minds are all squarely on cost-cutting above all else).

As far as I see it, the main misunderstanding is the idea that Windows is a toy, yet OS X somehow not, which is simply silly. Neither are, and not accepting that both are highly useful, and highly reliable, yet limited by their masters' corporate designs, and the culture of developers of platform-specific software, is blind fanboy BS.

Ok, it looks like when you said to Zaap 'Why not just go Windows', maybe he interpretted it as 'Why not ONLY go Windows', so when he replied that Windows works fine on OS X compatible hardware, you may have thought he was talking about Boot Camp?

And I interpreted his Rainbow Bright and Fisher Price comments to be more aesthetic descriptors rather than talking about the functionality.

So, you guys have been arguing completely different points. He never said that he was anchored to either OS, in fact he said the opposite.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
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Arguing different points... that does seem to happen to me a lot lately (And I end up getting cited because admittedly it frustrates me on a tech forum where I assume people can follow tech subjects).

I'll just say one last thing to Cerb about this (even though I thought it was already clear from post #1 on this, and TheStu spelled out also):

A dual socket Haswell PC (Hackintosh just means its capable of running OSX, but it's still just a PC) IS a by its very definition a workstation class PC. The same as some HP workstation or whatever else. If compatible, it could even BE an HP workstation. (Plenty of people run OSX on Dell, HP and other makes of computers and workstations.)

There's no such thing as a dual socket standard motherboard, so when you see mention of dual socket- it's server/workstation class hardware. OF COURSE it can run Windows- that would be its primary function for most people. One is just running an alternative OS on it in addition to Windows.

(This is akin to arguing with someone running Linux to 'just run Windows' without understanding the folly that of course they will be using hardware that also runs Windows if they choose to.)

The reason I was saying that person 'wins' is they'll likely have a system that will be beyond the specs of Apple's latest, since Apple seems to have taken themselves out of dual-CPU/greater internal expansion territory. (Two of the major strengths of the now last-gen Mac Pros.)

We're on an Apple subforum, in a discussion about MacPros, so I don't get why one would conclude not using Mac software would be a magic solution to anything. Wouldn't it be safe to start with the assumption that people using Macs (or an alternative running OSX) would therefore be using Mac software? But then anyone with a PC that runs OSX can also run Windows (yes, even a workstation!) so what's the point in arguing about any advantages of using Windows? The greatest advantage is being able to use ALL OS's, therefore, ALL software.

This wasn't anything complicated or anything to derail/argue about. I apologize for assuming it'd all be painfully obvious from the start, rather than breaking out the cliff notes version.
 

umrigar

Platinum Member
Jun 3, 2004
2,088
0
0
Something to consider: we support a major architectural firm that buys Mac Pros, Macbook Pros, and runs Windows on them for their CAD software.

Why? because in the past, their PCs were unreliable, hardware-wise. They have had far less trouble with their Macs. Before they used PCs, they did run CAD on Macs, but as others have said, the software fell behind the Win version.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,825
1,396
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MacProGarbage_zps6609917b.jpeg
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
I think I may have caught some kind of apple bug-- I am constantly staring at Apple's Mac Pro animated page, and damn that looks like a beautifully design computer that solves a big problem I have -- heat transfer and fan noise.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I have fallen behind on my hardware research. Relative to just building your own computer (and this gen I'll probably stick to saddling it up with Win7, maybe Linux) is this Mac Pro actually powerful?

Not sure how I feel about the AMD gpus (aka lowest bidder)
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
I think I may have caught some kind of apple bug-- I am constantly staring at Apple's Mac Pro animated page, and damn that looks like a beautifully design computer that solves a big problem I have -- heat transfer and fan noise.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I have fallen behind on my hardware research. Relative to just building your own computer (and this gen I'll probably stick to saddling it up with Win7, maybe Linux) is this Mac Pro actually powerful?

Not sure how I feel about the AMD gpus (aka lowest bidder)

Get software that is properly coded for OpenCL (which Apple has been pushing for at least a couple of years at this point), and they'll be compute monsters.
 

Essence_of_War

Platinum Member
Feb 21, 2013
2,650
4
81
It'll certainly be plenty powerful, and those AMD GPUs will very likely be great too. My suspicion is that there may be problems with external expansion:

Mac-Pro_2013_Mac-Pro_2013.jpg
 

Tegeril

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2003
2,906
5
81
It'll certainly be plenty powerful, and those AMD GPUs will very likely be great too. My suspicion is that there may be problems with external expansion:

Mac-Pro_2013_Mac-Pro_2013.jpg

Totally reasonable picture. Except not.

Single multi-drive TB external enclosure, not 3, no reason to have an Apple Super Drive with that Blu-ray reader/writer, the surge protector seems to be invisible on the left, and those other peripherals to the right were already external options for the left.

Sigh.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
I apologize, I should have been clear that I intended the picture to be light-hearted.

Light-heart this! This is internet, as in websites!

I think that Apple had a similar image a while back comparing the iMac to a Dell something. The Dell was covered in the extra wires from the mouse, keyboard, wireless adapter, and webcam, whereas the iMac was all wireless.
 

Essence_of_War

Platinum Member
Feb 21, 2013
2,650
4
81
Light-heart this! This is internet, as in websites!

I think that Apple had a similar image a while back comparing the iMac to a Dell something. The Dell was covered in the extra wires from the mouse, keyboard, wireless adapter, and webcam, whereas the iMac was all wireless.

Like this? ;)

pc_vs_mac-thumb.jpg
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,825
1,396
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My iMac looks like the Dell. A multitude of wires behind it.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
It really depends on the work load. For me, I keep the stuff I'm working on local and the rest sits on a NAS. The ~500GB SSD that the Mac Pro will come with is plenty for my local work load and it will be extremely fast. I don't need external audio mixers and stuff like that. For my loads, it will be a monitor, kb/m, and the Mac Pro. So, the smaller set up is nice. Having to have all the external accessories are for edge cases, like the guy that needs an audio mixer, 4TB of RAID1 storage, disc drives, a render grid, video converters, etc etc.

I won't miss the big box, but I can see why some would. Its too bad Apple isn't providing first part options for those people, they have to rely on third party solutions for thunderbolt connectivity which sucks.
 

vailr

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,365
54
91
I won't miss the big box, but I can see why some would. Its too bad Apple isn't providing first part options for those people, they have to rely on third party solutions for thunderbolt connectivity which sucks.

I like to think that there's still a slim chance of Apple's Phil Schiller switching horses in mid stream, and instead of offering only "the" new (round cylinder) Mac Pro, they could continue offering (in tandem) the "cheese grater" design with an updated Haswell CPU, Thunderbolt, USB 3.0 & updated nVidia video card.
Apple's "new Mac Pro" introduction last month didn't seem to exclude such an outcome, at least.
 
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Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,825
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I doubt it. I suspect they will discontinue the old cheese grater completely, but it's also possible they will still sell the old model for some time. I find it unlikely they'll sell a new cheese grater with all the fixins and the round black Mac Pro at the same time (although they did do that with the Power Mac and Cube back in the day).
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,313
7
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I doubt it. I suspect they will discontinue the old cheese grater completely, but it's also possible they will still sell the old model for some time. I find it unlikely they'll sell a new cheese grater with all the fixins and the round black Mac Pro at the same time (although they did do that with the Power Mac and Cube back in the day).

Then they couldn't call the new one "Mac Pro". Maybe..."Mac Pro X". Or the less inspiring "New Mac Pro". :biggrin:
 

vailr

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,365
54
91
it's also possible they will still sell the old model for some time. I find it unlikely they'll sell a new cheese grater with all the fixins and the round black Mac Pro at the same time (although they did do that with the Power Mac and Cube back in the day).

Apple has already quit selling their older model Mac Pro in Europe as of March 1, 2013.
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/18...r-purchase-from-european-apple-online-stores/
As long as they're needing to make some alterations on the outside of the "cheese grater" case to conform to new European safety regulations (if that's the product option they were to decide to go ahead with), then they may as well also: update the "cheese grater" case Mac Pro's CPU to Haswell, add Thunderbolt ports, etc.