New Intel IRST software version 11.x.x.xxxx, ISRT and TRIM

[BonzaiDuck]

I should have a "sig" with my "specs," but never got around to creating it:

i7-2600K @ turbo 4.6
ASUS P8Z68-V-Pro [first release of May, 2011] BIOS 606
G.SKILL RipJaws "-GBRL" 4x4GB DDR3-1600 @ 1866
Patriot Pyro 60GB SATA-III SSD deployed as cache for . .
WD Veloci-Raptor 600GB SATA-III
WD Caviar Black 500GB SATA-III on Marvell controller as media drive
Seasonic 750W Gold 80-Plus

OK. Since August, 2011, this thing has been running tip-top. No blue-screens. No instability. Quick. No "hour-glasses."

I had some concern about that time concerning the TRIM function for the SSD. Obviously, ISRT with the IRST software requires RAID configuration -- puts the SSD in a RAID0 with itself.

I've done nothing since then per any maintenance on the SSD, and I don't see any degradation in performance. I had heard that Intel was "working on" the implementation of TRIM for RAID. Now, I find they've released a version 11.x.x.xxxx of IRST software which does TRIM in RAID.

I need to know if I must upgrade my BIOS to install this new IRST version.

I want to know if I NEED to install it -- for this reason: I've put in queries at ASUS, Intel and Patriot, and the Patriot web-site for my Pyro drive gave instructions on how to check to see if TRIM was implemented or enabled with a command entered in the CMD "DOS" window. The query returns a "positive."

Could it be that the Pyro drive implements TRIM successfully with Windows 7 despite the usual stories that TRIM doesn't function in RAID?

Should I update my BIOS to install the new IRST version? Or would that be necessary at all?

I see people noting certain "bugs" with version 11, or complaining about blue screens and other stuff.

The machine has been absolutely stellar from the time I built and tweaked it. I'm afraid I might screw it up by making changes. I also hear that some who installed the new IRST SW experienced problems that software like MS Office needed reactivation afterwards.

Any thoughts, experiences, guidance would be appreciated.

 

[vailr]

Not sure about your particular board, but with Gigabyte Z77 boards: the bios includes the Intel Raid firmware. I could be wrong, but: only with the more recent Intel firmwares (11.6+) combined with the latest Intel RST driver (11.6.2+) do you get Trim function with a Raid configuration.
Even when updated to the latest bios version (dated 2012.05.29), your Asus Z68 board's bios having a (Trim enabled) Intel Raid firmware does seem doubtful.
A newer Z77 based board would seem to be more likely to have the required Intel Raid firmware version.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Not sure about your particular board, but with Gigabyte Z77 boards: the bios includes the Intel Raid firmware. I could be wrong, but: only with the more recent Intel firmwares (11.6+) combined with the latest Intel RST driver (11.6.2+) do you get Trim function with a Raid configuration.
Even when updated to the latest bios version (dated 2012.05.29), your Asus Z68 board's bios having a (Trim enabled) Intel Raid firmware does seem doubtful.
A newer Z77 based board would seem to be more likely to have the required Intel Raid firmware version.

Well, as I said, I have inquiries put in to ASUS, Intel and Patriot. Whether I NEED to sort this out, I will eventually sort it out.

Meanwhile, I uncovered some forum posts -- maybe at "hot hardware" or "extreme systems" or Intel. I think it may have been at Intel.

Some are making an assertion that ISRT TRIM was enabled in revision 10 for RAID0, but not for other RAID configurations.

However, before I forget, it is confirmed from Intel's own online information that the new version of the software -- again, can't remember the remaining digits but 11.x.x.xxxx -- enables TRIM for all RAID configurations on the Z68 chipset.

So the "assertions" I mentioned and the guidance at the Patriot website raise some questions. "How is it that the CMD query ' fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify' returns 0?" 0 means "TRIM Enabled", and the FAQ for which the "fsutil" answer was given is "How can I tell if TRIM is running while using my SSD?"

The "assertions" suggest that TRIM is enabled or operational for RAID0, and that was for versions 10.x.x.xxxx -- given the date of the forum posts.

So I figure "yeah -- I can install version 11, but will I have problems with it?" Do I need to update the BIOS? etc. Everything is working just fine now, as it has been since August 2011.

OR -- maybe I don't need to install version 11 unless I build RAID1 or other arrays with SSDs. But it would seem that I get the result that I get for the CMD query, because TRIM is working. That was the question which the answer is supposed to address.

If I were sure of these things, I wouldn't be posting this thread. I'll make sure to provide updates based on what I hear. ASUS's own recommendation -- that I should just install version 11.x.x.xxxx and it would 'address my problem" -- is on hold, because I need to know more. It's one thing to follow the old advice "Don't fix it if it ain't broke;" things could be a lot worse to stumble along and break it.

 

[vailr]

Some are making an assertion that ISRT TRIM was enabled in revision 10 for RAID0, but not for other RAID configurations.

However, before I forget, it is confirmed from Intel's own online information that the new version of the software -- again, can't remember the remaining digits but 11.x.x.xxxx -- enables TRIM for all RAID configurations on the Z68 chipset.

There's two aspects to your question: firmware vs. driver.
You'd need to inquire about the exact minimal numbered versions (required for Trim support) for both: firmware AND driver. Whether you could get away with using the latest 11.6.2 driver + an older 10.x.x firmware, or not.
The most recent motherboard bios would obviously be more likely to include the required Raid firmware that could enable Trim support. The Raid firmware version can be double-checked from within the Intel RST software, but only when running in Raid mode.
Note: when running in AHCI mode, that information is not displayed.

As far as your DOS utility: sorry, no idea how accurate that information output would be.

 

[gpse]

I Suggest installing the latest BIOS from ASUS, and installing the latest Intel RST driver from Intel. Also make sure your SSD has the latest firmware. That gives you the best shot of having Trim, since the newer versions support it.

Bios: http://support.asus.com/Download.as...V-PRO-ASUS-3402.zip#P8Z68-V-PRO-ASUS-3402.zip

Intel RST: http://downloadcenter.intel.com/con...t=Intel®+Rapid+Storage+Technology+(Intel®+RST)

Patriot Pyro Firmware: http://www.patriotmemory.com/software/Wildfire_Wildfire-SE_Pyro_Pyro-SE_5.0.4.zip

The SSD firmware update release notes even mention trim support being updated with this latest version.

 

[vailr]

Intel RST: http://downloadcenter.intel.com/confirm.aspx?httpDown=http://downloadmirror.intel.com/21852/eng/iata_enu.exe&lang=eng&Dwnldid=21852&ProductID=2101&ProductFamily=Software+Products&ProductLine=Chipset+Software&ProductProduct=Intel%c2%ae+Rapid+Storage+Technology+(Intel%c2%ae+RST)

The linked download is for Intel RST version 11.6.0.1030.
A newer 11.6.2.1002 WHQL version is here:
http://www.station-drivers.com/page/intel raid.htm

Also recommended: update to latest Intel chipset driver.
9.3.0.1025 WHQL
http://www.station-drivers.com/page/intel chipset.htm

 

[BonzaiDuck]

. . . . The Raid firmware version can be double-checked from within the Intel RST software, but only when running in Raid mode.

Note: when running in AHCI mode, that information is not displayed.
. . . .
As far as your DOS utility: sorry, no idea how accurate that information output would be.

Thanks to you and gpse. The system is in RAID mode -- obviously necessary to support my existing ISRT configuration.

I have the initial, perfunctory "received your technical query" e-mails from Intel and especially Patriot. I'm especially interested in what Patriot tells me, given my above observations.

I'm probably going to spend the $7 or $8 to order the PLCC chip with the latest BIOS revision. I've flashed the BIOS some 40 times on machines since the early '90s with nary a problem, until I had a mishap with a 680i system, and just made a stupid mistake with a 610i mobo. It's worth a few dollars.

There was a time when you could get a string of BIOS revisions for one stepping or release of CPU's which were optimal, then the later versions made it impossible to obtain the same clock settings. This way, it's easier to return to an earlier version. I don't know if those observations of some four/five years ago (LGA-775) would apply to BIOS's spanning Sandy and Ivy, but if I find out -- I want to be prepared.

First thing is to see what Intel and Patriot say. I guess . . . If the CMD query actually reported that TRIM is working, then there's no sense in making a spate of changes. Otherwise, I'll take these links, make the downloads and make the necessary preparations.

UPDATE! UPDATE! Just in from Intel . . .

"In order to support TRIM on RAID 0 the system needs to have an Intel® 7 Series SATA RAID Controller based or newer (not supported on previous chipset/platforms like Intel® Z68 express chipset).

"It needs Microsoft Windows 7; 32 and 64 bit (all editions and SPs), Microsoft Windows 2008 Server; 32 and 64 bit R2 (all editions and SPs) or newer.

"The RAID 0 volume has to be in ‘Normal’ state; TRIM commands will not be processed to the volume during ‘Rebuild’ or ‘Migration’ states. All the member disks of the RAID 0 volume must be SSDs and all SSDs must report that they support the Data Set Management/TRIM command in their ATA identify data in accordance with the ATA-8 specification."

So. That's from an Intel tech-rep. "Won't work with Z68." Then . . . how is it that the IRST web-page includes that chipset? Maybe they meant that the software supported the chipset generally, but not specifically. If I follow this last advice, there's nothing left to do, except to eventually pull the HDD offline, change the BIOS to ACHI, run some DOS-based utility on the SSD and reverse the process.

I suspect more will follow. Also, I think there are some utilities -- one called "Part Disk" or something -- which might work with a self-booting GUI without changing the BIOS setting.

AT LEAST I can tell myself with some authority that some amount of the cached material doesn't change much. And again -- I don't really notice any "degradation." But I probably need to find some avenue of "maintenance."

 

[vailr]

So. That's from an Intel tech-rep. "Won't work with Z68." Then . . . how is it that the IRST web-page includes that chipset? Maybe they meant that the software supported the chipset generally, but not specifically. If I follow this last advice, there's nothing left to do, except to eventually pull the HDD offline, change the BIOS to ACHI, run some DOS-based utility on the SSD and reverse the process.

Or: just buy a Z77 chipset motherboard.
If the Z68 bios flash fails, that'll provide an excuse to just go with a newer chipset motherboard.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Or: just buy a Z77 chipset motherboard.
If the Z68 bios flash fails, that'll provide an excuse to just go with a newer chipset motherboard.

. . . Which would then mean calling MS to get a new activation key . . .

When I do it, it will probably be a P8Z77, Sabertooth Z77 or a Maximus V . . .

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Here's an Unanswered post I found at the Intel forums:

tangerine Jun 14, 2011 11:51 PM
Currently Being Moderated
Hi, I just bought an 160GB X-25M and will buy a Z68 motherboard for my new computer very soon. I was planning to use 20GB of SSD as a cache for HDD, and install Windows 7 on the rest 140GB of SSD. Today when I was reading reviews of Smart Response Technology, I found that the drives must be set up in raid mode, thus TRIM was not supported anymore on the cache. I am wondering whether TRIM is still supported on the 140GB portion of the SSD. But none of the reviews mentioned this. Does anybody know the answer? I don't care about TRIM on the 20GB cache, as long as it makes the HDD faster, but I do care about TRIM on the 140GB os drive. Thanks.

I don't think it's a good idea to use an SSD bigger than the larger cache-size, and putting the remaining space to a second use.

I have the extra Marvell controller on the P8Z68 mobo, set to ACHI with one of two ports in use. I'll bet I could just hook up a second 60GB SSD, use it a bit, and swap them back and forth.

Or -- there's got to be some sort of utility -- like Part Disk . . .[or whatever it's called . . ] for USB flash or bootable CD . .

 

[BonzaiDuck]

http://www.lc-tech.com/pc/solid-state-doctor/