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New Info on Replacement to HD5870 (Cayman)

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nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
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Edit: Barts and Cayman. They can release either first, but its Bart to target the $200 segment. Whichever goes first needs time to ship and bring up stock, so the other is delayed a month.
That doesn't really make sense IMO. I see that they would launch Barts to take over the $200 segment, but Cayman (even in limited quantities) would literally stop anyone from buying a higher end Fermi if the performance is as you say. It just doesn't click with me that they would let NVIDIA keep the single card/gpu crown if they didn't have to. They have to know there are quite a few people who will probably never buy a multi-gpu setup.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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There have been price drops. You will find the prices for these cards significantly cheaper than a few weeks ago.

Cypress will be EOL a few months after Cayman release, when will depend on current stocks.

Edit Nitro: The higher end fermi hasn't been a hit. Cypress is still selling well. ATI needs the $200 segment because they have nothing, literally nothing price competitive with the gtx460. I wouldn't even recommend buying a 5850 now, and a few months ago, its the best bang for buck card. It's only a month apart in launch for Cayman, just due to logistics.
 
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nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
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Edit Nitro: The higher end fermi hasn't been a hit. Cypress is still selling well. ATI needs the $200 segment because they have nothing, literally nothing price competitive with the gtx460. I wouldn't even recommend buying a 5850 now, and a few months ago, its the best bang for buck card. It's only a month apart in launch for Cayman, just due to logistics.
What you are saying contradicts itself...

So in summary, AIBs have had these samples for nearly two months now (surprising thats theres not much more leaks). They actually have large stocks of it, come October, plenty will be available.

Edit: Barts and Cayman. They can release either first, but its Bart to target the $200 segment. Whichever goes first needs time to ship and bring up stock, so the other is delayed a month.
Either they have "plenty" of stock or they don't. If they do, it doesn't make sense to stagger the launch and just have a bunch of Cayman XTs sitting in a warehouse. If they don't it's not simply a matter of "logistics", it's a matter of not having "plenty". See what I'm saying?
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,143
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There have been price drops. You will find the prices for these cards significantly cheaper than a few weeks ago.

Cypress will be EOL a few months after Cayman release, when will depend on current stocks.

Edit Nitro: The higher end fermi hasn't been a hit. Cypress is still selling well. ATI needs the $200 segment because they have nothing, literally nothing price competitive with the gtx460. I wouldn't even recommend buying a 5850 now, and a few months ago, its the best bang for buck card. It's only a month apart in launch for Cayman, just due to logistics.
if they couldn't sell 5850 why didn't they just drop the price to be competitive with gtx 460?
 
Feb 19, 2009
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What you are saying contradicts itself...

Either they have "plenty" of stock or they don't. If they do, it doesn't make sense to stagger the launch and just have a bunch of Cayman XTs sitting in a warehouse. If they don't it's not simply a matter of "logistics", it's a matter of not having "plenty". See what I'm saying?
AIBs having plenty of stock and retailers/e-tailers having plenty of stock is a different matter. You are going to have ship these cards from China to around the world. ATI just chooses to ship en-mass the $200 segment card first as a priority. They don't need to release Cayman asap because cypress is still selling well and want to give it some time to clear remaining stocks before making it obsolete with the new gen release. If they release it too early, their partners are not going to be pleased sitting on stocks of 5800 series which can't sell for worthwhile margins when Cayman arrives.

Prices have been dropping. It'll continue to do so depending on whether its selling well or not.
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
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Not to mention how eagerly "some" people were claiming Cypress was a paper launch OMG!!
Better to have plenty of boards in stock and ready to go with the new series.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
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if they couldn't sell 5850 why didn't they just drop the price to be competitive with gtx 460?
There is the possibility the 5850 is selling well enough that it doesn't make sense for AMD to reduce price and/or AMD doesn't have a ton of 5850s and so reducing price would mean supply constrains, but at the same time AMD wants a piece of $180-$220 market.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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I agree, either partners are running very low on 5850 or it's still selling very well at the higher price.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
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AIBs having plenty of stock and retailers/e-tailers having plenty of stock is a different matter. You are going to have ship these cards from China to around the world. ATI just chooses to ship en-mass the $200 segment card first as a priority. They don't need to release Cayman asap because cypress is still selling well and want to give it some time to clear remaining stocks before making it obsolete with the new gen release. If they release it too early, their partners are not going to be pleased sitting on stocks of 5800 series which can't sell for worthwhile margins when Cayman arrives.

Prices have been dropping. It'll continue to do so depending on whether its selling well or not.
This still doesn't make any sense to me...

First of all, you still contradict yourself. Is it AMD or the AIBs that have Cayman in stock? It was AIBs before, now it's "ATI just chooses to ship en-mass the $200 segment card first". Which one is it?

Second, while Cypress may be dropping in price, the customers for a brand new generation and those that purchase the current generation products after the price drops are not the same people.

I tend to fit into the early adopter category with video cards and I haven't considered a Cypress card as an option for months, but I did buy one last October. Provided the performance is as we're expecting, my next AMD card will be Cayman, period. The sooner they get it to market, the sooner they get my money. I'm sure I'm not alone in this either...

To people that buy high end cards at launch the official announcement doesn't mean very much, as we tend to keep informed as to what's going on. The official announcement is just a confirmation (or denial) of the rumors we've been discussing for months. Any cannibalism of the 5-series caused by the 6-series for enthusiasts has already happened as a result of all the recent leaks. As long as ATI has been selling video cards, they should understand this by now.

Clearly you understand this, as even you've said that in light of the impending Barts Pro/XT launch that you would no longer recommend the 5850 as a good bang for the buck card.

Not to mention how eagerly "some" people were claiming Cypress was a paper launch OMG!!
Better to have plenty of boards in stock and ready to go with the new series.
Another reason this doesn't make any sense. They launched the 5870 with low availability and the the 5850 with even less availability. They still gained market share in the long run in spite of any criticism. Not to mention the fact that the low availability actually allowed AMD to raise the MSRP. Why deviate from a plan that worked?

I just don't see the sense in selling price reduced 5870s and the $200 Barts cards, which are most likely both lower margin cards than Cayman will be.

...unless they just don't have enough Caymans to sell.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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Well, seems that they'd have to juggle available manufacturing at TSMC to make new cards and supply the current ones as well. The reason for releasing Barts first could be to hit nVidia where it will hurt the most, right in their gtx-460 bread winner slot. I'd imagine that when Barts comes out that Evergreen sales will take a hit as well. It would make sense to me for Cayman's release to follow ASAP afterwards for the higher margin market.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
Well, seems that they'd have to juggle available manufacturing at TSMC to make new cards and supply the current ones as well. The reason for releasing Barts first could be to hit nVidia where it will hurt the most, right in their gtx-460 bread winner slot. I'd imagine that when Barts comes out that Evergreen sales will take a hit as well. It would make sense to me for Cayman's release to follow ASAP afterwards for the higher margin market.
Agreed. I don't contest that Barts will come in Oct and Cayman in Nov, as I believe this to be the case. I just don't believe AMD or the OEMs are just sitting on a ton of stock of both waiting to release them because they want to control the market, which is what some people supposedly in the know are claiming.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
201
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Agreed. I don't contest that Barts will come in Oct and Cayman in Nov, as I believe this to be the case. I just don't believe AMD or the OEMs are just sitting on a ton of stock of both waiting to release them because they want to control the market, which is what some people supposedly in the know are claiming.

I don't see it either. It rarely makes sense to sit on inventory. Building cards now to be ready for release in a month is a possibility. Running Cayman chips at TSMC for release in 2 months is also possible.
 

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