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New Info on Replacement to HD5870 (Cayman)

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Longtime reader first time poster. I hope my inaugural thread is useful. :)

http://www.hwupgrade.it/news/skvideo/ati-radeon-hd-6800-per-la-prima-volta-tra-le-nostre-mani_33764.html

Google translate version: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hwupgrade.it%2Fnews%2Fskvideo%2Fati-radeon-hd-6800-per-la-prima-volta-tra-le-nostre-mani_33764.html

Basically they got their hands on an engineering sample of Cayman (not Barts). A few quotes from the translated version, with my editorializing in parentheses:

"Just looking at the back of the card we have noted the points of contact for 8 modules GDDR5 memory, which is then confirmed using a 256bit memory bus size for this card like the 5800 Series solutions. The upper part contains a power connector 6-pin PCI Express flanked by an 8-pin, technical choice identical to that of dual GPU cards ATI Radeon HD 5970, note that the ATI Radeon HD 5800 series are equipped with two connectors PCI Express 6-pin."

(more power hungry than 5870)

"We can then estimate, for this card, the GPU is clocked higher than that made available by ATI Radeon HD 5870, with similar dynamics including the GDDR5 memory, which should significantly exceed the 4800 MHz clock effective solutions Radeon HD 5870 on the understanding the magnitude of the bus."

(higher spec'd GDDR5 RAM, possible increase in core clockspeed)

"The rear panel connections sees the presence of two DVI ports, a standard HDMI and two mini-display port, a configuration like this leaves you can imagine, this type of card, configure the technology Eyefinity up to a maximum of 4 screens used simultaneously."

(Eyefinity4 is likely, up from three screens.)

"...we can also confirm whether there has been a radical change in the structure of stream processors than the solutions chosen for the family R800...."

(Rumors of the 4+1 shader architecture's demise are likely. Most people seem to think it'll be a 2+2 or 3+1 style redesign.)

"We chose not to publish pictures of this card, to protect our source but we can confirm that the card is ready and that the debut would be a matter of no time."

(Production has already started on the replacement to the HD5870, and it should be released soon.)

EDITED TO ADD :


Regarding Barts Pro possible Oct 18 Launch:

http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/12713-fler-detaljer-om-radeon-hd-6850
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/12713-fler-detaljer-om-radeon-hd-6850&sl=auto&tl=en

The 5750 replacement will apparently have 1120 SPs at ~725 Mhz and 4000Mhz (effective) VRAM on 256-bit bus with 108W TDP. Barts launches sometime on or after the media embargo lift on Monday, October 18. Beyond3D tore the SP number apart though, due to SPs not being properly divisible: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=55313&page=79 The Oct 18 date remains plausible.

The SWEclockers post I didn't screenshot before they took it down, but luckily VRZone summarized it in time: http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-...pro-/9861.html In case vr-zone ALSO takes it down, I've copied the vr-zone article here:

Swedish website Sweclockers claim to have to scoop on Radeon HD 6850's release date and specifications. A series of previous rumours staded that Barts may be branded as Radeon HD 6800 instead of HD 6700 - a rumour that was received with much skepticism. Sweclockers are now reigniting the same rumour by reporting Barts Pro may end up branded as Radeon HD 6850. The media embargo reportedly ends on 18th October, though a wide availability date is not given.

The specifications, at first sight, appear similar to a Radeon HD 5830, with 1120 SP and 4 GHz 256-bit GDDR5. The clock speed is listed as 72x MHz. On paper, one might wonder why on earth AMD would brand a product seemingly inferior to a HD 5830 as HD 6850? Assuming these rumours have any truth, a radical VLIW-4 / 4D redesign in AMD's shader structure could see even a 1120 SP product outperform the 1600 SP Cypress. Of course, these 1120 SP will occupy a larger area and consume more power.

Meanwhile, a large part of the rumour mill continues to believe Barts will be branded as HD 6700, Cayman as HD 6800 and Antilles as HD 6900, and these just make most sense. The "Barts Pro is 1120SP" specification also disagree with the leaked slide stating Barts Pro as 800 SP. Clearly, there's a lot of uncertainty and misinformation here, with contradictory rumours and something's got to give.

Whichever branding Barts does eventually receive, and whatever its final specifications and performance may be, there's one thing all speculation agrees with - it will release sometime between October 18th and October 25th, with an AMD event scheduled for October 12th. Considering these dates are not much more than a month away, we will surely find out the final and confirmed branding in the coming days/weeks.
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
welcome to the forums blastingcap! :thumbsup:
Thanks!

Additional info:

http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/12713-fler-detaljer-om-radeon-hd-6850
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/12713-fler-detaljer-om-radeon-hd-6850&sl=auto&tl=en

The 5750 replacement will apparently have 1120 SPs at ~725 Mhz and 4000Mhz (effective) VRAM on 256-bit bus with 108W TDP. Barts launches Monday, October 18.
 

cusideabelincoln

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2008
3,268
7
81
If true that would be one nice boost for a 5750 replacement. Looks like it could come close to a 5850, but probably won't be any faster. Seems pretty unreal for a near $100-card replacement.
 

Madcatatlas

Golden Member
Feb 22, 2010
1,155
0
0
bah

Too many rumors. How is one supposed to get a straight picture with all these different tidbits of information...maybe one isnt supposed to "get it".



welcome to the forums!
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
57
81
bah

Too many rumors. How is one supposed to get a straight picture with all these different tidbits of information...maybe one isnt supposed to "get it".
Hey, at least we are getting rumors that come with links and screenshots now...that means we are actually getting closer.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
bah
Too many rumors. How is one supposed to get a straight picture with all these different tidbits of information...maybe one isnt supposed to "get it".
Yeah, it is a little odd. Considering that there are a number of supposed sources claiming to have hands on experience with Cayman XT that aren't afraid to talk about it, the lack of pictures is a little surprising.

These things usually have a sort of time line (til launch):

3-4 months - tape out rumors
2 months - rumors of specs
7-5 weeks - screen caps of benchmarks, gpu-z, or just posted scores. Maybe a few ES pictures, more info about specs.
4-2 weeks - specs and model confirmed, retail pricing rumors, more benchmarks, and pictures of reference cards, OEMs have retail samples.
2-1 week - pictures of retail cards, pricing confirmed, and usually some web site jumps the gun on releasing a launch review by a few days.

From the information provided in the OP it sounds like OEMs have the final retail samples in hand, which is why the lack of more leaked pictures is a little odd to me. It seems to me like we're still more than a month away from Cayman XT launch (I'm thinking Nov), but a lot of rumors are pointing to perhaps Oct which just doesn't seem likely to me.

...whatever happens, I'll probably be getting one. :)
 

Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
1,576
0
0
From the information provided in the OP it sounds like OEMs have the final retail samples in hand, which is why the lack of more leaked pictures is a little odd to me. It seems to me like we're still more than a month away from Cayman XT launch (I'm thinking Nov), but a lot of rumors are pointing to perhaps Oct which just doesn't seem likely to me.
I expect/pray October.

...whatever happens, I'll probably be getting one. :)
+1 :thumbsup:
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
All the rumors I think we've seen so far indicated a 2+2 arrangement for the new shaders. I wonder how a 3+1 would do if that's the direction they take instead? 2+2 sounds better as I'm sure you're getting more of the 'fat' shaders, so the card would probably have a bit more brute strength in actual gaming. But I think the 3+1 could also work, as I understand it the 4+1 (when there are a lot of them, as in the 5870) are difficult to keep feed, difficult to keep the 'small' shaders working. This gives us less of the small probably increasing efficiency by keeping the smaller number of them busy.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
The 2 links you added don't work.

And welcome to forum!

Thanks.

That's odd; the link worked earlier in the day. If they took it down, that's a positive sign as it means it's more likely that the leak was true and that AMD told them to take it down. I also neglected to mention that the VRAM was 1GB for the 5750 replacement, according to that article.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
0
71
Thanks.

That's odd; the link worked earlier in the day. If they took it down, that's a positive sign as it means it's more likely that the leak was true and that AMD told them to take it down. I also neglected to mention that the VRAM was 1GB for the 5750 replacement, according to that article.
So the 5750 replacement is gonna have 1120 (same as 5830 i think) and 4Ghz 1GB ram and only use 108W? That's insane, that's the same as a 5770 I think.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
Thanks.

That's odd; the link worked earlier in the day. If they took it down, that's a positive sign as it means it's more likely that the leak was true and that AMD told them to take it down. I also neglected to mention that the VRAM was 1GB for the 5750 replacement, according to that article.
Welcome to AT :)

I think most of that article was reposted info from:

http://techpowerup.com/130710/AMD-Barts-XT-Prototype-Pictured.html
http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/graphics/graphics/amd-barts-xt-card-pixellized

who got it from chiphell.com
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76

Thanks.

The SWE post I didn't screenshot before they took it down, but luckily VRZone summarized it in time: http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-radeon-hd-6850-on-october-18th-is-barts-pro-/9861.html

In case vr-zone ALSO takes it down, I've copied the vr-zone article here (btw vr-zone is right, SWE only said media embargo lifts on Oct. 18 so it's not necessarily the launch day for the HD5750 replacement; my bad!):

Swedish website Sweclockers claim to have to scoop on Radeon HD 6850's release date and specifications. A series of previous rumours staded that Barts may be branded as Radeon HD 6800 instead of HD 6700 - a rumour that was received with much skepticism. Sweclockers are now reigniting the same rumour by reporting Barts Pro may end up branded as Radeon HD 6850. The media embargo reportedly ends on 18th October, though a wide availability date is not given.

The specifications, at first sight, appear similar to a Radeon HD 5830, with 1120 SP and 4 GHz 256-bit GDDR5. The clock speed is listed as 72x MHz. On paper, one might wonder why on earth AMD would brand a product seemingly inferior to a HD 5830 as HD 6850? Assuming these rumours have any truth, a radical VLIW-4 / 4D redesign in AMD's shader structure could see even a 1120 SP product outperform the 1600 SP Cypress. Of course, these 1120 SP will occupy a larger area and consume more power.

Meanwhile, a large part of the rumour mill continues to believe Barts will be branded as HD 6700, Cayman as HD 6800 and Antilles as HD 6900, and these just make most sense. The "Barts Pro is 1120SP" specification also disagree with the leaked slide stating Barts Pro as 800 SP. Clearly, there's a lot of uncertainty and misinformation here, with contradictory rumours and something's got to give.

Whichever branding Barts does eventually receive, and whatever its final specifications and performance may be, there's one thing all speculation agrees with - it will release sometime between October 18th and October 25th, with an AMD event scheduled for October 12th. Considering these dates are not much more than a month away, we will surely find out the final and confirmed branding in the coming days/weeks.

HOWEVER...

Beyond3D tore the SP number apart though, due to SPs not being properly divisible: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=55313&page=79 The Oct 18 date remains plausible.
 
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tweakboy

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2010
9,517
2
81
www.hammiestudios.com
Good thread. I say more like Nov to Dec. If they pull it off by Oct then wow they really wanna one up nVidia good.

Also lets stop calling it ATI, That brand is dead, its AMD. one company, makes CPU and GPU. Thank you and gb,
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,606
134
106
All the rumors I think we've seen so far indicated a 2+2 arrangement for the new shaders. I wonder how a 3+1 would do if that's the direction they take instead? 2+2 sounds better as I'm sure you're getting more of the 'fat' shaders, so the card would probably have a bit more brute strength in actual gaming. But I think the 3+1 could also work, as I understand it the 4+1 (when there are a lot of them, as in the 5870) are difficult to keep feed, difficult to keep the 'small' shaders working. This gives us less of the small probably increasing efficiency by keeping the smaller number of them busy.
There is also the 4 rumour - no fat shaders, no slim shaders, just all round shaders.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Good thread. I say more like Nov to Dec. If they pull it off by Oct then wow they really wanna one up nVidia good.

Also lets stop calling it ATI, That brand is dead, its AMD. one company, makes CPU and GPU. Thank you and gb,
I didn't call it ATi, the article did :)

Oct 18 is the possible Barts launch, not Cayman. Cayman is probably November.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
5
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You know all these new rumors haven't changed much, Barts XT (2/3 a cayman! so 1280 4D sp) >= 5850 in performance, coming in october. Cayman = >35% 5870 perf, coming in november, in dx11, it's a lot more powerful. Then Antilles, which is a dual-Cayman not dual-Barts card, will be released right after. Nothing low end til Q1 2011, and its not because they don't have the replacements ready, its because the 5770 stocks are very high and its still very popular with OEMs so they can't EOL it as quick.

Power use has only increased very slightly, the 8 + 6 pin for cayman is for OC headroom. All these GPUs are going to exceed the good OC trend set by evergreen. The architecture has been heavily tweaked to deliver better eyeinfinity and crossfire perf scaling.

So in summary, AIBs have had these samples for nearly two months now (surprising thats theres not much more leaks). They actually have large stocks of it, come October, plenty will be available.

Edit: Barts and Cayman. They can release either first, but its Bart to target the $200 segment. Whichever goes first needs time to ship and bring up stock, so the other is delayed a month.
 
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nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
So in summary, AIBs have had these samples for nearly two months now (surprising thats theres not much more leaks). They actually have large stocks of it, come October, plenty will be available.
I assume you are talking about Barts Pro/XT, and not Cayman.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,606
134
106
I assume you are talking about Barts Pro/XT, and not Cayman.
If he is saying they can release whatever first I assume he means both of them.

I'm not sure if he has any insider info or not, but considering no price drops on 5850/5870, I doubt AMD is producing any significant amount of Cypress chips. Makes much more sense stockpiling 6000 series and bobcat based APUs.
 

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