New home theater setup in a new place

[vi edit]

Cristatus, are you in the UK or the US? That makes a HUGE difference in what options can be recommended.

 

[s44]

The problem is that the high-end audio salon stuff is optimized for stereo listening a living-room distance away, not hitting reference movie volumes at home theater distance. The *really* expensive speakers (five figures) handle gobs of power and can do the job, but are obviously a giant waste for your application, while the lower-end (four figures) "expensive" stuff is generally neither sensitive enough nor built for lots of current and won't sound sufficiently clear and dynamic for a big home theater.

The Klipsch *is* pretty sensitive (if not particularly refined) and a good HT choice in its price range, but improve on its HT-specific virtues you really need something besides what they sell rich guys looking for stereos. That's why I recommended the JTR Triple 8HT, because it's a "home" version of a product you usually only see as a "pro" audio item: high sensitivity, high power handling, and therefore huge max output and dynamic range. It's also, from all accounts, quite impressively clear and "musical"...

For other options I actually *would* look in the pro realm: JBL Pro for starters.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

To be fair, he was suggesting running two subwoofers (although both of them of the abovementioned model), but I declined, thinking it would be overkill...which I guess it isn't really.

Also, I didn't tell him how much I wanted to spend, since I didn't want to come off to him as just someone that wanted to "throw money" (which is why I'm asking here first ). Just before leaving the place, I found out that he has a separate showroom for higher-end equipment, but I don't know what he has to offer in there.

To be frank, I was surprised that he offered something like the RS52, because of the way that they fire (in two separate directions), but I just heard him through, until I heard about some reviews.

(C)

edit: I should probably mention that I don't really know what's actually good or not, but I'd rather not get jipped, and make a some-what informative decision, thanks to you guys.

Personally, I would go into a place and say you're looking to build a high end setup. When they ask a budget, tell them your actual budget and ask to audition the gear (speakers and video). Let them know you are in the initial phases and right now looking at options so they don't attempt to push you into something. While doing this really pay attention to speakers/video/etc and what you like/dislike about each. This will help you narrow down what will be best for you. Have them write down at least a rough estimate with the gear they would use and get this from each shop in your area. You can post it up on here or AVS for people to give you their opinions on if you want, but remember it's the internet and you'll get trolls.

The most important thing is find stuff that YOU (and your spouse) enjoy. You can post online and get online feedback to kind of protect yourself from getting fucked over with shitty gear and expensive cables, but ultimately it's what sounds/looks best to you and your room. If you have the room built already and a shop knows you're serious about dropping that kind of money, most I have been to will also allow you to do in-home trials.

Personally, I would stay away from Klipsch. I'm not a fan of their stuff, especially in this price range. I would also stay away from a receiver and move to a pre/pro and amp combo on the audio side. Have you looked at some of the "big names" in high end audio yet? Some examples are: Paradigm Studio/Reference series, B&W 7xx/8xx series, Focal 8xx/10xx series, but there are many more (check out AVS for other high end brands).

 

[The-Noid]

Long story short:

I've got an extra 9x6 meter (~30 x 20 feet) room just for a home theater set up, that is begging the question:

what do I put in there?

I've looked around a couple of places, and there's just SO MUCH equipment out there, it's daunting.

Basic necessary equipment includes the following:

7.1 receiver
Blu ray player
Projection screen with projector screen
Speakers

I'm willing to spend around 25k, because I know I'll need the other 25k to have the room padded, and the equipment setup.

What would you do? And is there anything that you think I may be missing?

Thanks in advance.

(C)

That was pretty much what my budget was. Having done about 200 hours worth of research before starting, here is what I ended up with. We were building the house so I built the room to the dimensions I wanted and what AVSforum recommended for acoustics. Also, I bought one row of seats because I like to say I built the room for myself, even though I always end up having more people over than I would want for big events.

Projector: I have a JVC RS-35 if you are looking for 3D go with the RS-60U or RS50 You could easily go with the RS-35 if you only care about 2D or go with the RS50 if you are looking for cheaper. Price range: $6,750-$13,000
Screen: Only one choice here. Stewart Filmtek. If you want a 2D screen get the StudioTek 130 (assuming it is going to be dark) if you want 3D go with the Studio 3D Silverscreen. A 123" screen will set you back about $3,000
Audio: I had a B & W setup that was around $20k but have since moved the 803D's into my living room for music listening and changed the theatre room around. Currently running a Denon 4310 to a Sunfire Amp. You are looking at around $5,000 for processing and amp. I would definitely go with a dual system for the kind of money you are looking at rather than an integrated. Integra 9.8 or newest Integra would be a good bet as well.
Speakers: Anything on the high side from Definitive, Mirage, Paradigm, Polk LSI, Klipsch you are probably going to be happy with in a HT environment. Go and audition a few see if you like more bass, less bass and how the dialogue sounds. Figure $7,500 all toll with subs.

2D setup you could do for $22,250, 3D setup is around $28,500.

In the projector world I would stay away from 3D currently but to each his own. Add in some treatments, prep, wiring and a HTPC for another $5,000-$7,500. Add in seating for another $4,500.

A whole lot more than that and you are looking at significant lowering of your marginal return to capital. Going through that I really can't believe how much I spent. Looks painful all at once. Two pictures of what I came up with. I think the key and best thing to do is build a "fake wall," I build a 2 foot deep wall in the back and put acoustic fabric on the wall. That way all my equipment is hidden behind the "wall." All you see is the projector and the screen. I then put black doors in front of my computer, which is below the screen and receiver and other. I had originally built another room for the equipment and was going to run RF but it seemed cumbersome running back and forth, I would rather have it in front of me.

 

[The-Noid]

Personally, I would go into a place and say you're looking to build a high end setup. When they ask a budget, tell them your actual budget and ask to audition the gear (speakers and video). Let them know you are in the initial phases and right now looking at options so they don't attempt to push you into something. While doing this really pay attention to speakers/video/etc and what you like/dislike about each. This will help you narrow down what will be best for you. Have them write down at least a rough estimate with the gear they would use and get this from each shop in your area. You can post it up on here or AVS for people to give you their opinions on if you want, but remember it's the internet and you'll get trolls.

The most important thing is find stuff that YOU (and your spouse) enjoy. You can post online and get online feedback to kind of protect yourself from getting fucked over with shitty gear and expensive cables, but ultimately it's what sounds/looks best to you and your room. If you have the room built already and a shop knows you're serious about dropping that kind of money, most I have been to will also allow you to do in-home trials.

Personally, I would stay away from Klipsch. I'm not a fan of their stuff, especially in this price range. I would also stay away from a receiver and move to a pre/pro and amp combo on the audio side. Have you looked at some of the "big names" in high end audio yet? Some examples are: Paradigm Studio/Reference series, B&W 7xx/8xx series, Focal 8xx/10xx series, but there are many more (check out AVS for other high end brands).

B & W 8-series sounded TERRIBLE in my home theatre, without them being deafeningly loud. The way home theatre is recorded in a very tight band to handle a lot of equipment you aren't getting anywhere near full range. Moving my 803d's upstairs and selling the 805s and HTM to afford a full set of the Polk LSIs was a great idea. They are a relatively cheap speaker in that I think the full set can be had for around $2,500 for the LSI15 (the 25's have their own amp which kind of sucks) LSiC and 2 sets of LSIFX if you wait long enough.

I will probably upgrade to Theils at some point in the next year as I think they make great home theatre speakers from listening at a friends, but that would involve spending another $15k on something I might use 3-4 hours a week.

 

[The-Noid]

Well, I just found out that I may not actually require as much for the equipment as I thought I would have needed.

I just went to a local H/T guy, and he suggested me with a Klipsch Reference set-up, consisting of the following:

RSW-10 subwoofer
RF 62 fronts
RS 52 (MKII) surrounds
RC 62 center

Onkyo TX-NR808 receiver

Infocus SP8602 projector

Wireworld Chroma 6 HDMI connectors

Copper/silver mix wires for the surrounds, and copper wiring for the other remaining fronts and the sub.

For the screen, the guy suggested that since the screen size would be pretty big, you're probably better off just painting the wall, instead of getting a curtain.

I don't have any renders, but I do have a basic plan of the room that is going to be used, which I will be posting later.

(C)

The good thing about the Klipsch's is that any receiver will make them loud. They really don't need a lot to power themselves.

FYI though, this guy knows absolutely nothing. There is no projector out today that you would want to paint the wall for, most of the screens are made of very specific weave patterns, very specific reflectivity, many different things are at play.

 

[Cristatus]

Cristatus, are you in the UK or the US? That makes a HUGE difference in what options can be recommended.

I am actually in Belgium. I'm sure that makes a massive difference as to what can be recommended But, in any case, the guy that I talked to today said that he would be able to source the equipment for me, and hopefully he can.

The problem is that the high-end audio salon stuff is optimized for stereo listening a living-room distance away, not hitting reference movie volumes at home theater distance. The *really* expensive speakers (five figures) handle gobs of power and can do the job, but are obviously a giant waste for your application, while the lower-end (four figures) "expensive" stuff is generally neither sensitive enough nor built for lots of current and won't sound sufficiently clear and dynamic for a big home theater.

The Klipsch *is* pretty sensitive (if not particularly refined) and a good HT choice in its price range, but improve on its HT-specific virtues you really need something besides what they sell rich guys looking for stereos. That's why I recommended the JTR Triple 8HT, because it's a "home" version of a product you usually only see as a "pro" audio item: high sensitivity, high power handling, and therefore huge max output and dynamic range. It's also, from all accounts, quite impressively clear and "musical"...

For other options I actually *would* look in the pro realm: JBL Pro for starters.

I was surprised when I added the numbers together for the abovementioned setup, it came out to a little under 7k. Let's not forget, I'm not looking for something to play music on...more something to play movies on.

Personally, I would go into a place and say you're looking to build a high end setup. When they ask a budget, tell them your actual budget and ask to audition the gear (speakers and video). Let them know you are in the initial phases and right now looking at options so they don't attempt to push you into something. While doing this really pay attention to speakers/video/etc and what you like/dislike about each. This will help you narrow down what will be best for you. Have them write down at least a rough estimate with the gear they would use and get this from each shop in your area. You can post it up on here or AVS for people to give you their opinions on if you want, but remember it's the internet and you'll get trolls.

The most important thing is find stuff that YOU (and your spouse) enjoy. You can post online and get online feedback to kind of protect yourself from getting fucked over with shitty gear and expensive cables, but ultimately it's what sounds/looks best to you and your room. If you have the room built already and a shop knows you're serious about dropping that kind of money, most I have been to will also allow you to do in-home trials.

Personally, I would stay away from Klipsch. I'm not a fan of their stuff, especially in this price range. I would also stay away from a receiver and move to a pre/pro and amp combo on the audio side. Have you looked at some of the "big names" in high end audio yet? Some examples are: Paradigm Studio/Reference series, B&W 7xx/8xx series, Focal 8xx/10xx series, but there are many more (check out AVS for other high end brands).

I have not, in fact, looked at any of those names yet, mainly because I didn't know where to start. I will calling some local guys to see if they sell any of this equipment here, and if I can get a demo.

Thanks for the help guys...

(C)

(p.s.: sorry if this post comes off as a bit rude and/or short, but I typed a nice reply, and when I hit post, the computer lost my session, as well as my post since it was lying there for so long.)

 

[Cristatus]

I would also like to point out, that the room actually measures 6.50 x 4.65 m (~21 x 15 ft), as I had incorrectly estimated what was on the plan.

OP has been upated to reflect this.

(C)

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

B & W 8-series sounded TERRIBLE in my home theatre, without them being deafeningly loud. The way home theatre is recorded in a very tight band to handle a lot of equipment you aren't getting anywhere near full range. Moving my 803d's upstairs and selling the 805s and HTM to afford a full set of the Polk LSIs was a great idea. They are a relatively cheap speaker in that I think the full set can be had for around $2,500 for the LSI15 (the 25's have their own amp which kind of sucks) LSiC and 2 sets of LSIFX if you wait long enough.

I will probably upgrade to Theils at some point in the next year as I think they make great home theatre speakers from listening at a friends, but that would involve spending another $15k on something I might use 3-4 hours a week.

It all depends on room and specifics. B&W 8-series are great speakers, but can sound crappy in the wrong setup. That's why I suggested looking into in-home auditioning or at least a good return policy. You can definitely get great speakers cheaper than 8 series. I suggested them solely as an option (although I think it's too expensive for this budget if OP wants a 5.1/7.1 system) to look at, but listen to what sounds good to him .

I am actually in Belgium. I'm sure that makes a massive difference as to what can be recommended But, in any case, the guy that I talked to today said that he would be able to source the equipment for me, and hopefully he can.

I was surprised when I added the numbers together for the abovementioned setup, it came out to a little under 7k. Let's not forget, I'm not looking for something to play music on...more something to play movies on.

I have not, in fact, looked at any of those names yet, mainly because I didn't know where to start. I will calling some local guys to see if they sell any of this equipment here, and if I can get a demo.

Thanks for the help guys...

(C)

(p.s.: sorry if this post comes off as a bit rude and/or short, but I typed a nice reply, and when I hit post, the computer lost my session, as well as my post since it was lying there for so long.)

Belgium would make things different as you will have different options available that may or may not be the same as this side of the Atlantic. Check the manufacturer websites to look for local distributors.

Yeah that system is kind of a "low end" system based off your budget. It would work, but you have many more options available. Call up local shops, look at the company websites (B&W, Paradigm, Focal, etc) to find out if they have retail stores in your country with them available. You can also check out AVS and see if anybody will let you come listen to their system as I think was mentioned earlier.

 

[The-Noid]

I would also like to point out, that the room actually measures 6.50 x 4.65 m (~21 x 15 ft), as I had incorrectly estimated what was on the plan.

OP has been upated to reflect this.

(C)

Fairly small then. You aren't going to need a gigantic sub in that case because according to what I had read on AVSForum a while ago a note under 23hz can't be heard/felt unless there is >26feet of length for the sound to reverberate.

I wouldn't think any of these parts are generally hard to source. Almost all will be made in European spec. JVC/Stewart/Integra heck B & W is obviously British.

 

[The-Noid]

It all depends on room and specifics. B&W 8-series are great speakers, but can sound crappy in the wrong setup. That's why I suggested looking into in-home auditioning or at least a good return policy. You can definitely get great speakers cheaper than 8 series. I suggested them solely as an option (although I think it's too expensive for this budget if OP wants a 5.1/7.1 system) to look at, but listen to what sounds good to him .

After running for a while they just and this is obviously opinion, seemed much better suited to 2 channel music than to a home theater environment. If I wanted to listen to everything at huge relative volumes the B & W's were great (and still are great I get way more use out of them in my living room than in the theater) however for TV watching and movies I think you can get away with a lot less of a speaker in a surround sound environment.

 

[vi edit]

Fairly small then. You aren't going to need a gigantic sub in that case because according to what I had read on AVSForum a while ago a note under 23hz can't be heard/felt unless there is >26feet of length for the sound to reverberate.

I think that's a bit of a misunderstanding of the science. Some of the more intelligent people than me on the forum can explain better.

 

[The-Noid]

I think that's a bit of a misunderstanding of the science. Some of the more intelligent people than me on the forum can explain better.

Great, always seemed weird to me. Based on recommendations I built my room to exactly 26.5 ft long which was at the time supposedly the right length, I forgot what the right width calculations are.

 

[vi edit]

Great, always seemed weird to me. Based on recommendations I built my room to exactly 26.5 ft long which was at the time supposedly the right length, I forgot what the right width calculations are.

If that were the case, how would headphones function?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

After running for a while they just and this is obviously opinion, seemed much better suited to 2 channel music than to a home theater environment. If I wanted to listen to everything at huge relative volumes the B & W's were great (and still are great I get way more use out of them in my living room than in the theater) however for TV watching and movies I think you can get away with a lot less of a speaker in a surround sound environment.

I'd venture to say it depends on the person. I haven't heard 8-series in either HT or music setups, so I don't know about either first hand. Generally the most expensive stuff from these companies (Focal Utopia, B&W 8-series, Paradigm reference, etc) are geared towards music. Their middle range stuff is generally more geared towards HT (Focal 8xx, B&W 7xx, Paradigm Studio, etc) in my experience.

 

[The-Noid]

I'd venture to say it depends on the person. I haven't heard 8-series in either HT or music setups, so I don't know about either first hand. Generally the most expensive stuff from these companies (Focal Utopia, B&W 8-series, Paradigm reference, etc) are geared towards music. Their middle range stuff is generally more geared towards HT (Focal 8xx, B&W 7xx, Paradigm Studio, etc) in my experience.

What is your opinion of the CM series from B&W? I heard them (I hate the term auditioned) at the store a couple of weeks ago looking at Thiels. They seem like a lot of speaker for a little price.

If I were doing a HT in the 5k budget range they would be right up my alley, should be something that is right in the OP price range though...

Couple of CM8/CM9, CM Centre and CM5's for surround?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

What is your opinion of the CM series from B&W? I heard them (I hate the term auditioned) at the store a couple of weeks ago looking at Thiels. They seem like a lot of speaker for a little price.

If I were doing a HT in the 5k budget range they would be right up my alley, should be something that is right in the OP price range though...

Couple of CM8/CM9, CM Centre and CM5's for surround?

Haven't heard the CM series, nor have I read anything about them, so I can't comment on those unfortunately.

I just did some quick searching, and it appears that the CM series is between the 6xx and 7xx series from B&W. They seem to be a more "musical" speaker instead of one geared more towards movie watching, but that can be great IMO. I would rather hear the dialog, music, etc rather than the crazy loud and "in your face" sound that actual movie theaters tend to prefer.

 

[Kaido]

i vote you add in a nice infinite baffle subwoofer system

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1281442

Seconded. If you're building a room, IB all the way! Great board over here:

http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/index.cgi

 

[Kaido]

*DON'T BUY GEAR BEFORE THE ROOM IS DONE*

Repeat after me....

*DON'T BUY GEAR BEFORE THE ROOM IS DONE*

Thirded. This has been a really hard lesson for me to learn in my own projects, but getting all of the components all at once is really the best method.