NEW Home generator, new sump pump + backup water pressure pump.. oh my. Halp.

[Zeze]

Hey homeowners,

My town is prone to brown-outs & black-outs. We're looking to get a professional generator - got a consult scheduled. Any tips from the internet nerds? Typical price or tiers of usage?

This noobass home has a french drain in case of sever rain. We're getting a water-pressured sump pump on top of swapping a new motor sump pump for double redundancy and new from start. The nearby plumber quoted $1500. Gold Medal (national chain) quoted $1250 without new motor switch. I guess prices are in line. Any experience to share?

 

[BoomerD]

How big is the generator? $1500 won't get a very big one...of any quality. If all it's supposed to run is the sump pump, then that's fine...but why not get one that will run more...like the whole house? ($20-$25K or more)

 

[deadlyapp]

How big is the generator? $1500 won't get a very big one...of any quality. If all it's supposed to run is the sump pump, then that's fine...but why not get one that will run more...like the whole house? ($20-$25K or more)

I think 1500 is the quote for the sump plumbing.

Whole home generator, you're probably talking about 5k for the genset (probably about a 17kW size), anywhere from 5-10k depending on electrical and gas needs. Don't forget you'll probably need a new gas meter with higher flow if you're on municipal nat gas.

I can't gauge the sump pump. What plumbing are they doing? I just installed a sump pump that collects all my French drains in the back yard and pipes it forward to the street. Probably $300 in materials, but trenching the PVC and running electrical is a ton of labor and for $1500 I probably would have considered paying someone. I am however stubborn.

 

[BoomerD]

I think 1500 is the quote for the sump plumbing.

Whole home generator, you're probably talking about 5k for the genset (probably about a 17kW size), anywhere from 5-10k depending on electrical and gas needs. Don't forget you'll probably need a new gas meter with higher flow if you're on municipal nat gas.

I can't gauge the sump pump. What plumbing are they doing? I just installed a sump pump that collects all my French drains in the back yard and pipes it forward to the street. Probably $300 in materials, but trenching the PVC and running electrical is a ton of labor and for $1500 I probably would have considered paying someone. I am however stubborn.

$1500 makes more sense...IF it includes the trenching and all plumbing. I too am WAY too stubborn to pay some schmuck to dig a trench I SHOULD be able to dig myself...although, the closer I get to 70, the longer it takes me to do the digging. Fortunately, the ground here is pretty much pure sand, so it's fairly easy digging.
The generator is surprisingly cheaper than I expected.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Generac-Guardian-24kW-Home-Standby-Generator-with-Whole-House-Transfer-Switch-Wi-Fi-Enabled/5001905451#preview-specifications

$5600 for 24KV...where live, EVERYTHING is electric. The ONLY gas available is propane. (LPG) At 100% load, that's about 4 gph consumption. Not that bad.

 

[skull]

Generac sucks though and installation isn't exactly easy or cheap, liable to need your whole electric service re done.

 

[JM Aggie08]

We just recently purchased a 24kW Generac -- will be ~$12k installed, including full-time health monitoring, maintenance, and extended warranty for 10 years.

 

[Red Squirrel]

How much power are you guys using?! 24kw is basically fully utilizing a 100 amp service. You can probably get away with like a 2-3kw generator to run the most important stuff.

 

[Kaido]

We just recently purchased a 24kW Generac -- will be ~$12k installed, including full-time health monitoring, maintenance, and extended warranty for 10 years.

Is that the one with the smartphone app & automatic self-testing?

 

[JM Aggie08]

Is that the one with the smartphone app & automatic self-testing?

Yes sir! It'll cycle once a week.

How much power are you guys using?! 24kw is basically fully utilizing a 100 amp service. You can probably get away with like a 2-3kw generator to run the most important stuff.

We've got a 3100sqft home + pool + massive central AC unit. And a toddler. I don't want the SLIGHTEST inconvenience in the event of an extended outage, of which we've had 5 over the last year. Never again!

 

[Kaido]

Yes sir! It'll cycle once a week.

Dang, that's amazing! I have a pull-start portable generator & don't have an ATS or even a plug in my panel or outside my house for it, so I just have some long extension cords lol.

What I'd really love is a Tesla Powerwall battery, but apparently they only sell them as a package deal with the solar panels now. I'm currently renting & the unit doesn't allow for solar at all. I could get a battery, but now they don't sell them without the panels. Lame!

 

[BoomerD]

Yes sir! It'll cycle once a week.



We've got a 3100sqft home + pool + massive central AC unit. And a toddler. I don't want the SLIGHTEST inconvenience in the event of an extended outage, of which we've had 5 over the last year. Never again!

Our house is only about 1700 sq/ft, but it's all electric...I
When the power goes out...and it does a few times every winter, no heat, no lights, no cooking, NO INTERNET OR TV!
We're pretty rural, on a skinny peninsula sticking into the Pacific Ocean on the Washington coast. We get some hella bad storms every year...with ery bad storms every few years that leave us without power for several days.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Can always go the DIY route for the powerwall. Or more like power floor.





Going to be upgrading my shed's solar setup and also cleaning it up since it's kind of janky right now, then eventually run that power to the house too. I could in theory put a transfer switch but that gets complicated when dealing with two different power sources and grounds, so I need to look further into best way to do that while keeping it safe. I can maybe tie both grounds together but I think that can cause ground loop issues. Right now the entire system is floating which is not ideal.

Recently bought a 24v 3kw inverter too as I want to be able to run bigger loads if I need to, like the furnace or even microwave. Maybe even an induction hotplate.

This is an Amazon $500 inverter though, so it might just catch on fire the minute I test it. It will be going through a lot of testing before I trust it. It has good reviews but that does not mean much.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

The ONLY gas available is propane. (LPG) At 100% load, that's about 4 gph consumption. Not that bad.

Unless power is out for an extended period and it has to run for days at a time. And then you need to hope the driver can get to you before it runs out. At your 4GPH estimate, you're looking at 100 hours (4 days) maximum with a 500 gallon tank since they only fill to 80%

And at $2/gallon, it's gonna get pricey real quick if you're out for a couple of weeks. I've been out for over 10 days twice which would mean at least two fills if I left it running full time.

I would need to shut my 16K off once a day to check oil .... every 25 hours of run time.

I only should burn about 2-3GPH peak though.

 

[BoomerD]

Unless power is out for an extended period and it has to run for days at a time. And then you need to hope the driver can get to you before it runs out. At your 4GPH estimate, you're looking at 100 hours (4 days) maximum with a 500 gallon tank since they only fill to 80%

And at $2/gallon, it's gonna get pricey real quick if you're out for a couple of weeks. I've been out for over 10 days twice which would mean at least two fills if I left it running full time.

I would need to shut my 16K off once a day to check oil .... every 25 hours of run time.

I only should burn about 2-3GPH peak though.

Agreed...but what's the alternative?

 

[ultimatebob]

Can always go the DIY route for the powerwall. Or more like power floor.





Going to be upgrading my shed's solar setup and also cleaning it up since it's kind of janky right now, then eventually run that power to the house too. I could in theory put a transfer switch but that gets complicated when dealing with two different power sources and grounds, so I need to look further into best way to do that while keeping it safe. I can maybe tie both grounds together but I think that can cause ground loop issues. Right now the entire system is floating which is not ideal.

Recently bought a 24v 3kw inverter too as I want to be able to run bigger loads if I need to, like the furnace or even microwave. Maybe even an induction hotplate.

This is an Amazon $500 inverter though, so it might just catch on fire the minute I test it. It will be going through a lot of testing before I trust it. It has good reviews but that does not mean much.

Yeah, I did something similar to this with a deep cycle marine battery, charger, and a 500W inverter. I could run a computer or a TV off of it for about 4 hours when it was new, but I'd imagine that the battery only holds half that charge now that its 8 years old.

And, unlike a Tesla Powerwall, you can actually BUY the parts and have them delivered in a few days! How long is the waiting list for a Powerwall now??

 

[bbhaag]

Not sure on how much a whole house generator would cost but I do have some insight on the sump pump side of things.

Around a year ago we had water issues in our basement due to sump pump failures and power outages. We called in a pro to install a water powered backup sump pump. We went with a Liberty SJ10 and it has worked flawlessly. At the same time I replaced the main sump pump with a Zoeller M53 because the two previous ones were cheap units from Menards that failed. I've used the Zoellers at work and they last years with out issues or much maintenance. Sure they cost a little more but well worth it IMO.

Cost for installing the backup sump pump was a little over $800 but that also included running the pipe for a whole house water filter so I don't know just how much the sump pump install would have been and like I said I bought the main pump and installed it myself. $1500 seems a little steep to me but I don't know where you live and what you current plumbing looks like.


Just for reference here's a couple of pics of my sump/water room. If you have any questions just ask.


For reference the copper water pipe on the far right of this picture is what drives the Liberty pump. The discharge is closer to the floor.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Those water powered pumps are interesting. Basically use municipal water pressure to power it so will work pretty much no matter what even if there was a power outage or generator fails.

Yeah, I did something similar to this with a deep cycle marine battery, charger, and a 500W inverter. I could run a computer or a TV off of it for about 4 hours when it was new, but I'd imagine that the battery only holds half that charge now that its 8 years old.

And, unlike a Tesla Powerwall, you can actually BUY the parts and have them delivered in a few days! How long is the waiting list for a Powerwall now??

Yeah I find the cheaper lead acid batteries just don't last. All my UPS ones from 2013 seem to be dying on me, they die catastrophically too, usually a shorted cell. So it's not even that they lose life, they just become completely unusable unless I want a 10 volt battery. (the other cells will be fine if I catch it fast enough) The gel ones last even less long, lucky to get 5 years.

The issue I have with Powerwall and similar stuff is that it's so proprietary. If anything breaks down you're on your own. If you build out your own system you can replace individual parts. I do hope that lithium ion cells become cheaper though.

Just hooked up my new 6v batteries to my 12v system for now. Figure I may as well. Though plan is to swap out the whole inverter for a 24v one. My charge controller can do 12 or 24 and it auto detects.

 

[MrSquished]

Onan generators over generac.

Learned that lesson already.

 

[BoomerD]

Onan generators over generac.

Learned that lesson already.

hell, I never even thought about Cummins/Onan. Good generators I've had one in every motorhome I've owned...and THOSE get some shitty working conditions...

Looking at what's available, they're more spendy than the Generac units...and availability can be hit-or-miss...What surprised me the most is the price jump between 20kW and 25kW. (and nothing inbetween)

 

[deadlyapp]

Yeah, I looked at a whole home standby generator but the cost was just prohibitive, considering I'll expect to need to run anywhere from 5-10 days a year pending hurricane seasons. While losing central AC will be a drag, the 10kW portable generator I picked up should be able to run about a 10,000-15,000 Btu window AC and we'll just deal with having to camp in the living room for a few days to not be miserable.

Biggest things for us are to keep the fridge & chest freezer up and running, keep the wine coolers going (I know, I know), have some conditioned air, and keep a sump pump in the rear yard running. We'll use portable stoves and propane grill for cooking, so we don't need the electric cooktop, oven, or microwave. I may wire in the microwave to the transfer switch, just in case.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I've had this discussion a thousand times on different sites.

Portables are OK if you or someone else who knows how to use it are home at the time. If not, what happens? Food lost? Pipes frozen and broken leading to ....

Suppose someone is home that needs medical/breathing equipment?

Even if you are home, do you want to be messing with cords and trying to start a portable during a storm?

Circumstances are different for everyone.

I've got around $5K into a 16Kw Generac I installed myself. Will I get my money back out of it? I've lost power for several days 5 or 6 times in the past. It might be another 5 years before it happens again, or it might be next week. Will the genset work as needed? Or will it fail and become a money pit?

 

[Red Squirrel]

I don't imagine food will go bad within a day if power goes out. Worse case scenario when you get home from work you hook it up if power is still out.

But yeah having something stationary can be more convenient.

I had thought about it for a long time just for piece of mind but reality is the power rarely goes out here and when it does it's back within like half an hour. Even my solar setup is overkill, but I just want to play around with solar more than anything and if I can run some stuff off it on a more permanent basis I can save a bit on my hydro bill.

 

[bbhaag]

I don't imagine food will go bad within a day if power goes out. Worse case scenario when you get home from work you hook it up if power is still out.

But yeah having something stationary can be more convenient.

I had thought about it for a long time just for piece of mind but reality is the power rarely goes out here and when it does it's back within like half an hour. Even my solar setup is overkill, but I just want to play around with solar more than anything and if I can run some stuff off it on a more permanent basis I can save a bit on my hydro bill.

Yeah food can keep for days inside a fridge or freezer. As long as you're good about not opening the door. If you keep opening the door it can start to go quick.
Back in the fall of 2013 the town I live in was devastated by a tornado. It ripped through and destroyed about a 1/4 of town. We lost power for three or four days and the only thing we lost was a couple of frozen pizzas out of the deep freezer and maybe a 1/2 gallon of milk.

Here's an aerial view of the damage.

 

[BoomerD]

Yeah, I looked at a whole home standby generator but the cost was just prohibitive, considering I'll expect to need to run anywhere from 5-10 days a year pending hurricane seasons. While losing central AC will be a drag, the 10kW portable generator I picked up should be able to run about a 10,000-15,000 Btu window AC and we'll just deal with having to camp in the living room for a few days to not be miserable.

Biggest things for us are to keep the fridge & chest freezer up and running, keep the wine coolers going (I know, I know), have some conditioned air, and keep a sump pump in the rear yard running. We'll use portable stoves and propane grill for cooking, so we don't need the electric cooktop, oven, or microwave. I may wire in the microwave to the transfer switch, just in case.

Generally, our extended power outages (more than "some idiot crashed into a power pole...4-5 hours to repair") are during our winter months. It doesn't USUALLY get very cold here...but low 30's is normal...and into the 20's isn't uncommon. In the almost 3 years we've lived here, the longest we've been out of power (so far...knock on wood) is less than 18 hours...but it was in the mid-30's...and the house can get hella cold in that amount of time)
We're all electric...Cadet 220v . electric wall heaters in every room, (I hate those fckn things) electric water heater, electric range, etc. I THINK I'd need at least a 20Kv genset to maintain some sense of "normal" during an outage.

 

[deadlyapp]

Generally, our extended power outages (more than "some idiot crashed into a power pole...4-5 hours to repair") are during our winter months. It doesn't USUALLY get very cold here...but low 30's is normal...and into the 20's isn't uncommon. In the almost 3 years we've lived here, the longest we've been out of power (so far...knock on wood) is less than 18 hours...but it was in the mid-30's...and the house can get hella cold in that amount of time)
We're all electric...Cadet 220v . electric wall heaters in every room, (I hate those fckn things) electric water heater, electric range, etc. I THINK I'd need at least a 20Kv genset to maintain some sense of "normal" during an outage.

When I lived outside Tacoma area, the only extended outage I ever experienced was an ice storm (probably 1997 or so?) that took out transformers and lines all around our house. We were in a mostly wooded area on a non-critical street and it took over a week to get power back. We had a gas furnace but without the electric blower there isn't anything that can be done.

As far as portable vs built in, totally agree. Thankfully the only reasons for power outages here in Houston are generally hurricanes (which I can prepare for days in advance) or something like the extremely rare cold storm we just got this year. I've made my system intentionally simple, with a manual transfer switch inside the house and a single 50A outlet where the generator plugs in. The only intervention required is to refuel the generator, which is a bit painstaking but I will always be home and capable.