new HDTV speaker help

[TitusTroy]

I recently bought a 50' Samsung HDTV along with a Blu-Ray player...I'm currently using my TV's built-in speakers which sounds fine to me but I was told that investing in a nice speaker system would make a world of difference and by using the built in speakers I'm not truly experiencing HD...my problem is that I live in an apartment and getting some ridiculously expensive 5.1 system might not be the best move for me as it will disturb my neighbors...apparently even just two speakers and no surround sound will make a world of difference over my current built-in ones...so I am looking for an affordable non 5.1 system with very good to excellent sound quality (keeping in mind that I live in an apartment hence the overall output has to be reasonable)

does anyone have any recommendations?...there are just so many options out there that it is hard to determine the best ones for my situation...money is not too much of an option although I prefer not to go overboard...plus it would be nice to have the option to upgrade to a 5.1 set later on if I choose to...are there any quality speakers available that fit my needs?...thanks for any help

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Well, first of all, sound quality is not the same as loudness which is not the same as number of speakers. So a 5.1 speaker system does not have to be ridiculously loud, but then again, neither does it imply better sound quality. Any speaker, no matter what the price or how many speakers you have, can be reduced in volume by turning the volume knob , so the over output level is determined by you, not the speakers you buy.

You'll need to throw out a general idea of budget before any real recommendations can be made. Also, consider reading or skimming over YoYo's general audio thread for starters.

 

[TitusTroy]

Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
Well, first of all, sound quality is not the same as loudness which is not the same as number of speakers. So a 5.1 speaker system does not have to be ridiculously loud, but then again, neither does it imply better sound quality. Any speaker, no matter what the price or how many speakers you have, can be reduced in volume by turning the volume knob , so the over output level is determined by you, not the speakers you buy.

You'll need to throw out a general idea of budget before any real recommendations can be made. Also, consider reading or skimming over YoYo's general audio thread for starters.

true, loudness does not equate to sound quality but there is no point in getting a 600 watt speaker set only to play it at 30% volume max on a regular basis

as far as price range...max $450-$500

I'll check out YoYo's thread as well

 

[Riverhound777]

Might look into a sound bar system like the Sony CT-100. I'm probably going to get one when I get my new tv.

 

[TitusTroy]

Originally posted by: Riverhound777
Might look into a sound bar system like the Sony CT-100. I'm probably going to get one when I get my new tv.

the ZVOX Mini or ZVOX 325 also looks very appealing...I wonder how the CT-100 compares to the ZVOX

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: TitusTroy

Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
Well, first of all, sound quality is not the same as loudness which is not the same as number of speakers. So a 5.1 speaker system does not have to be ridiculously loud, but then again, neither does it imply better sound quality. Any speaker, no matter what the price or how many speakers you have, can be reduced in volume by turning the volume knob , so the over output level is determined by you, not the speakers you buy.

You'll need to throw out a general idea of budget before any real recommendations can be made. Also, consider reading or skimming over YoYo's general audio thread for starters.

true, loudness does not equate to sound quality but there is no point in getting a 600 watt speaker set only to play it at 30% volume max on a regular basis

as far as price range...max $450-$500

I'll check out YoYo's thread as well

I don't think you have a full understanding of what better speakers give you. It's not just about volume or power ratings. Yes, they can generally go louder without distorting but you are not "wasting" a speaker system by not always pumping the max power they can handle/put out into them. Sound quality is so much more than just volume and that can be appeciated at nearly any volume level(except off )

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Home Theater In a Box (HTIB) sets love to brag / advertise about wattage, which may be where you're getting this misconception that it's all about wattage. Maybe you're more in tune with computer specs, but it's almost like the effect where videocard manufactures might focus entirely on ram size to try to lure an inexperienced buyer. Just like the amount of ram a videocard has is going to apply to how much screen size you have, the wattage (along with sensitivity of the speaker) might be a concern if you have a very large room, but that's not the whole story. That was probably a really crappy analogy...

Maybe just to give you a chance to fiddle around with wattage ratings just to see how little it matters beyond a certain point, you could look at this tool.
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
All those factors above are going to factor into how loud something is going to be. A typical speaker sensitivity might be between 85 to 90 dB 1w/1m. You can plug in the rest of it and see what going from different wattages gets you. If you're familiar with the dB scale, it will make more sense.

Anyway, my whole point of bringing this up is that wattage is something that people tend to focus on right away since it seems to be a measurable and objective way to compare two different systems. It's actually relatively unimportant and there is a lot of variation in the way manufacturers measure power output, so you might be comparing apples to oranges. The power outputs that people are comparing also tend to be insignificant. For example, if someone chooses to buy a receiver because it outputs 120watts/channel instead of another one that outputs 110watts/channel, even if those measurements are accurate, the difference in output level is less than 1dB.

There are some factors to look for when picking out speakers though. Unless you really like the aesthetics of a sound bar, I would recommend getting a basic 5.1/7.1 receiver and a pair of bookshelf speakers to start. Depending on the soundbar, it might be difficult to integrate it into a 5.1 system later, so buying some bookshelf speakers would have the edge in flexibility for the future. There are a lot of options out there for speakers as you already mentioned.

There are some popular options listed in the sticky thread. I'm afraid some of the links have not been updated lately, but the actual text listing them should still give you an indication. There are a number of internet direct and retail companies that have solid bookshelf speaker options for around $300. With $200 remaining, you can get a basic 7.1 receiver from Pioneer / Onkyo / etc.
It would be easy to add to a system like this later by adding a subwoofer and then getting additional speakers to match the existing ones.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

OP, I would venture to guess most people will use their sound systems around 10-30% volume most of the time. To know you have a good amount of headroom beyond whatever volume you like to listen at is good because it means
1. you stand almost no chance of blowing your equipment out
2. sound quality will likely be better at "30%" volume than at 90 or 100%
3. if you ever move to a larger room/apartment/whatever, you do not necessarily have to buy a whole new system, if anything at all


As far as your original question, one important factor to consider is if you really want surround sound. Keep in mind surround sound does not equal louder, so your mentioning of disturbing the neighbors isn't really important. However, the trade off will be between having surround with less quality speakers or having stereo with higher quality speakers.

At that price range, I'd go with buying a relatively cheap receiver and some decent speakers. Then as receiver prices drop for receivers that are not simply hdmi passthrus, you can buy one of those at some point in the future and potentially also add surround speakers (although either of these two things can be done independent of the other).

 

[TitusTroy]

my main concern is sound quality...I never stated that wattage was the most important factor for me...I don't know where that came from...I only mentioned wattage in relation to me living in an apartment building and not a house therefore noise levels would have to be an aspect in my purchasing decision

I've owned the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 500 watt PC speakers and would get complaints from my next door neighbor because the bass would literally shake her room...so I need to be mindful of this when I purchase speakers for my HDTV

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Originally posted by: TitusTroy
my main concern is sound quality...I never stated that wattage was the most important factor for me...I don't know where that came from...I only mentioned wattage in relation to me living in an apartment building and not a house therefore noise levels would have to be an aspect in my purchasing decision

I've owned the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 500 watt PC speakers and would get complaints from my next door neighbor because the bass would literally shake her room...so I need to be mindful of this when I purchase speakers for my HDTV

What I'm saying is that it's not the ProMedia's fault for shaking your neighbor's room. The ProMedias include a knob for turning down the volume, as will any other setup you buy. A higher "wattage" system may or may not create more max volume, but it's irrelevant because you can turn it down. If you're concerned about sound quality, choose the setup without worrying about its max volume, rated wattage, or anything like that.

Also, I was in the process of adding to my previous reply but it appears you responded to it before I could finish.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Sorry, I think seeing your comment about a 600watt system being pointless for you had me thinking you were looking at wattage as a primary factor in a system. Not that I can think of one, but you could theoretically even get a 600watt system that doesn't even get loud if the speakers are now enough in sensitivity.

Anyway, hopefully this is more on topic...

Lower frequencies tend to travel through walls much more easily. Bass is probably going to be the biggest annoyance to neighbors (as you already experienced). As has been said already, you will have complete control over how loud a system is, and possibly even more importantly - what time of day you use your system.

You could annoy neighbors with a $50 set of computer speakers if you use it at annoying volumes or at annoying times. Although a higher powered system gives you more headroom, it's all about how you choose to use it for how much you'll annoy others.

That said, bass tends to be the biggest issue. If you were to get a pair of good bookshelf speakers, you'd likely get very good sound quality and sufficient bass from them. Your system would be more full range with a subwoofer, but skipping that would decrease your chances of annoying neighbors since those bass thumping sounds wouldn't be produced by a sub.

 

[TitusTroy]

Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
What I'm saying is that it's not the ProMedia's fault for shaking your neighbor's room. The ProMedias include a knob for turning down the volume, as will any other setup you buy. A higher "wattage" system may or may not create more max volume, but it's irrelevant because you can turn it down. If you're concerned about sound quality, choose the setup without worrying about its max volume, rated wattage, or anything like that.

Also, I was in the process of adding to my previous reply but it appears you responded to it before I could finish.

I understand what you're saying about wattage but if I have to turn the volume down beyond what I consider acceptable listening levels then it does make a difference...speaker sets do not sound the same at 9% volume compared to 30% or 40% etc...different levels of sound do produce different results...you don't buy a top of the line product only to use 10% of its features

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: TitusTroy

Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
What I'm saying is that it's not the ProMedia's fault for shaking your neighbor's room. The ProMedias include a knob for turning down the volume, as will any other setup you buy. A higher "wattage" system may or may not create more max volume, but it's irrelevant because you can turn it down. If you're concerned about sound quality, choose the setup without worrying about its max volume, rated wattage, or anything like that.

Also, I was in the process of adding to my previous reply but it appears you responded to it before I could finish.

I understand what you're saying about wattage but if I have to turn the volume down beyond what I consider acceptable listening levels then it does make a difference...speaker sets do not sound the same at 9% volume compared to 30% or 40% etc...different levels of sound do produce different results...you don't buy a top of the line product only to use 10% of its features

Most good speakers produce fantastic sound quality at quiet and loud levels. You are correct that they do change a bit with higher power output but do not confuse this with bass output. You may have to turn down the sub more than you deem acceptable because it has a tendency to travel through walls. However, that's a different situation. A good bookshelf speaker will sound good quiet and loud. Buying a 600W system does make sense, even when using it at 33% usage, if the sound quality of the overall system is great.

When you turn down the sub, you don't consider that acceptable because with computer speakers its typically covering a larger range. So you might lose some midrange along with the bass. Also you are lowering it in comparison to the other speakers volume. Because of this, the balance gets messed up and sound quality is lost. On a normal 5.1 system I would balance the system and then if you need to lower the volume, lower everything via the receiver. If its night time, use "night mode".

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Originally posted by: TitusTroy

Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
What I'm saying is that it's not the ProMedia's fault for shaking your neighbor's room. The ProMedias include a knob for turning down the volume, as will any other setup you buy. A higher "wattage" system may or may not create more max volume, but it's irrelevant because you can turn it down. If you're concerned about sound quality, choose the setup without worrying about its max volume, rated wattage, or anything like that.

Also, I was in the process of adding to my previous reply but it appears you responded to it before I could finish.

I understand what you're saying about wattage but if I have to turn the volume down beyond what I consider acceptable listening levels then it does make a difference...speaker sets do not sound the same at 9% volume compared to 30% or 40% etc...different levels of sound do produce different results...you don't buy a top of the line product only to use 10% of its features

If I understand what you're saying correctly, I don't see your dilemma as an issue between different speaker setups but rather between you and your neighbor. If your 'acceptable listening level' is too loud for your neighbor with your current speakers, then higher quality speakers will not change that fact. You are right that a speaker's performance other than volume may also change as you change the amount of power you send to it. However, usually, a higher quality speaker overall will produce higher quality sound at low levels also.