New GPU for an old PC (2012)

[aranel72]

When I play World of Warcraft on my desktop (built in 2012), I get frequent application crashes and bluescreens. It might run fine for hours before a crash, or it might crash just after logging in. And this only happens when I play WoW (SWTOR runs fine). I've worked through all the steps with Blizzard tech support and after many steps (i.e. uninstall addons, full UI reset, downgrade to dirx9), they believe it must be a hardware problem with my GPU (GTX 670).

So I have 2 questions:
1. Does their recommendation to try a new GPU seem reasonable at this point?
2. If so, what would be the best comparable GPU to try?

If I am to buy a new GPU as a next step test, I don't want to overspend on one that is seriously hamstrung by an older system. Likewise, I want to make sure what I get is adequate for my needs (i.e. not a serious step backwards). Based on my research, a RX 560 for around $150 is probably a good fit, although a slight step down according to Toms. The other option would be a GTX 1060 6GB, though that's $300.

Of course, I would like to replace the whole desktop, but can't afford to at this time.

Full details of PC

• GPU - EVGA GeForce GTX 670 DirectX 11 02G-P4-2670-KR 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
• CPU - Intel Core i5-3350P Ivy Bridge Quad-Core 3.1GHz (3.3GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 69W BX80637i53350P Desktop Processor
• Power Supply - SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze 620W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply
• Motherboard - ASUS P8Z77-V LK LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
• RAM - CORSAIR Vengeance LP 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Profile Desktop Memory Model CML8GX3M2A1600C9
• System Drive - Intel 330 Series Maple Crest 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDSC2CT120A3K5
• Data Drive – Western Digital Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive
• Case - Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
• OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 16299)

Thanks!

 

[Tweak155]

Normally I would suggest trying integrated graphics, but it appears that model CPU does not have it. When I would get crashing issues in WoW, I always just reduced the graphics settings in game, sometimes it was the draw distance or what not that would be too hard on my hardware.

Did these crashes only recently start occurring? Possibly you could go to previous driver versions if so. Also I would suggest doing some temperature monitoring and see if your temps get above a reasonable level (I would expect under 85c would be reasonable for that game for sure...).

 

[aranel72]

Normally I would suggest trying integrated graphics, but it appears that model CPU does not have it. When I would get crashing issues in WoW, I always just reduced the graphics settings in game, sometimes it was the draw distance or what not that would be too hard on my hardware.

Good suggestion to reduce graphics settings and see result. I'll give that a try as soon as servers come back up.

Did these crashes only recently start occurring? Possibly you could go to previous driver versions if so. Also I would suggest doing some temperature monitoring and see if your temps get above a reasonable level (I would expect under 85c would be reasonable for that game for sure...).

I'm a recent returning player to WoW after Bioware saw fit to kill SWTOR last year. I only started playing WoW this past December, and it's always been an issue on this system I have used current drivers, and tried clean installs.

On monitoring temp, I've used speccy to eyeball it. Of course, this doesn't work as most likely I'm in the game when it crashes, so can't see what the temp is at that moment in time. Also, if the crash is a blue/blackscreen, then i definitely see nothing. Is there a temp monitoring tool that records temp over time you might recommend?

 

[Tweak155]

Good suggestion to reduce graphics settings and see result. I'll give that a try as soon as servers come back up.



I'm a recent returning player to WoW after Bioware saw fit to kill SWTOR last year. I only started playing WoW this past December, and it's always been an issue on this system I have used current drivers, and tried clean installs.

On monitoring temp, I've used speccy to eyeball it. Of course, this doesn't work as most likely I'm in the game when it crashes, so can't see what the temp is at that moment in time. Also, if the crash is a blue/blackscreen, then i definitely see nothing. Is there a temp monitoring tool that records temp over time you might recommend?

My default is always CPU ID HWMonitor:

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

It will keep track of what the max was while it is running.

If you're getting a blue screen / black screen / freeze, it is almost definitely your hardware. Temps are a good first thing to check.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If you're getting a blue screen / black screen / freeze, it is almost definitely your hardware. Temps are a good first thing to check.

Yes, this. Also, when was the last time that you blew the dust (using a can-o-air, or similar, not just your lungs) out of your CPU heatsink / fan / cooler, and your graphics card?

 

[Gt403cyl]

What is the error if/when you get the bluescreen?
If you don't know, then check out this post to get the logs, it may help diagnose the problem:
https://www.howtogeek.com/222730/how-to-find-out-why-your-windows-pc-crashed-or-froze/

 

[Tweak155]

What is the error if/when you get the bluescreen?
If you don't know, then check out this post to get the logs, it may help diagnose the problem:
https://www.howtogeek.com/222730/how-to-find-out-why-your-windows-pc-crashed-or-froze/

Very nifty, thanks!

 

[aranel72]

My default is always CPU ID HWMonitor:

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

It will keep track of what the max was while it is running.

If you're getting a blue screen / black screen / freeze, it is almost definitely your hardware. Temps are a good first thing to check.

Good call. I've used CPUID before. Reinstalled it. Most things appear to be OK (< 40 degC), but TMPIN8 is ridiculously high @102 degC (215 degF). I researched this a bit and most posts say it's a faulty or unused sensor. Any thoughts here?

BTW, this is idle...haven't run WoW yet...doing that next to see.

 

[aranel72]

Yes, this. Also, when was the last time that you blew the dust (using a can-o-air, or similar, not just your lungs) out of your CPU heatsink / fan / cooler, and your graphics card?

LOL, yes, I do occasionally clean with a can of compressed air. But since it's been awhile, I disassembled the whole PC and gave it a thorough cleaning.

 

[Gt403cyl]

Good call. I've used CPUID before. Reinstalled it. Most things appear to be OK (< 40 degC), but TMPIN8 is ridiculously high @102 degC (215 degF). I researched this a bit and most posts say it's a faulty or unused sensor. Any thoughts here?

BTW, this is idle...haven't run WoW yet...doing that next to see.

Yeah probably a false reading, if everything else is normal.
Not much we can do until you have temps while gaming or error logs..

 

[aranel72]

What is the error if/when you get the bluescreen?
If you don't know, then check out this post to get the logs, it may help diagnose the problem:
https://www.howtogeek.com/222730/how-to-find-out-why-your-windows-pc-crashed-or-froze/

I've played around with reliability monitor before, but it's never been too helpful...mostly a cryptic "Desktop Windows Manager (dwm.exe) stopped working."

But today I found some interesting things like hardware errors.
https://imgur.com/f0lwitc

Description
A problem with your hardware caused Windows to stop working correctly.

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: LiveKernelEvent
Code: 141
Parameter 1: ffffb100c26d1010
Parameter 2: fffff8031c80fe7c
Parameter 3: 0
Parameter 4: 13a4
OS version: 10_0_17134
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1
OS Version: 10.0.17134.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033

Extra information about the problem
Bucket ID: LKD_0x141_Tdr:6_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys
Server information: 005d82d8-c5bd-4c0f-ad93-c1b70dee67b2

I'm not sure what to do with this...maybe you know?

 

[aranel72]

Yeah probably a false reading, if everything else is normal.
Not much we can do until you have temps while gaming or error logs..

I was hoping CPUID would write to a log file in real time so that I could go back to see what happened at the time of the crash. Since most of the time I just lose all video (i.e. screen goes black, monitor shuts off, even though has power and system is on), and my only option at that point is a hard reset (hold power button down for a few sec), I lose all that potentially valuable data.

So I ran WoW some this morning. Didn't get it to crash (will keep trying), but did see that my GPU is getting a bit hot, peaking at 86 degC (186 degF). See following link for full screenshot.
https://imgur.com/nX9j9r4

If this is the problem, then I suppose my initial question stands: which GPU to try next? So far it looks like people favor the GTX 1060 6gb over the RX560, even though it's twice as expensive.

One more thought: I do have an older GPU (GTX 550 Ti) that I might try to see if it also has the same problem, in which case I think I can probably rule out it's a GPU issue. But the rest of the temp stuff looks to be in normal

 

[Gt403cyl]

I was hoping CPUID would write to a log file in real time so that I could go back to see what happened at the time of the crash. Since most of the time I just lose all video (i.e. screen goes black, monitor shuts off, even though has power and system is on), and my only option at that point is a hard reset (hold power button down for a few sec), I lose all that potentially valuable data.

So I ran WoW some this morning. Didn't get it to crash (will keep trying), but did see that my GPU is getting a bit hot, peaking at 86 degC (186 degF). See following link for full screenshot.
https://imgur.com/nX9j9r4

If this is the problem, then I suppose my initial question stands: which GPU to try next? So far it looks like people favor the GTX 1060 6gb over the RX560, even though it's twice as expensive.

One more thought: I do have an older GPU (GTX 550 Ti) that I might try to see if it also has the same problem, in which case I think I can probably rule out it's a GPU issue. But the rest of the temp stuff looks to be in normal

Yeah it all looks pretty good, the GPU temps might be a bit high..
The 550 Ti might have to work a little harder so it may still run a little hot...

If you are hesitant on spending for the 1060, the 1050 Ti is not horrible...

As for the error.... the extra info points to nVidia (nvlddmkm.sys) so it's either a graphics driver issue or the graphics card itself, in my opinion...
Have you tried using DDU to uninstall all graphics drivers then installing the latest from nVidia's site?

 

[Jaskalas]

The GTX 750Ti was an incredible help for me three years ago. It stabilized a 2009 PC that couldn't handle WoW without powering off. Though that's a different issue than the blue screens you are experiencing.

I would suggest a 1050Ti if the 1060 is too expensive.

P.S.
I would look into testing your system RAM for errors.

 

[aranel72]

Yeah it all looks pretty good, the GPU temps might be a bit high..
The 550 Ti might have to work a little harder so it may still run a little hot...

If you are hesitant on spending for the 1060, the 1050 Ti is not horrible...

As for the error.... the extra info points to nVidia (nvlddmkm.sys) so it's either a graphics driver issue or the graphics card itself, in my opinion...
Have you tried using DDU to uninstall all graphics drivers then installing the latest from nVidia's site?

Thanks again for your help here! I hadn't used DDU in awhile, so did so again in safe mode and then installed the latest driver. Unfortunately, I'm still having the issue.

I've not had any BSOD or wow.exe crash recently. Rather, it's largely a loss of display (screen goes black, white, or pink). The only way I can see anything again is to do a hard reset (hold power button for several seconds).

This pattern of events is shown repeatedly in reliability monitor:
"Desktop Window Manager" stopped working x 8
"Hardware error" x 1
"Windows was not properly shut down" (my hard reboot).

Here's a few screenshots with additional details:
List of events in reliability monitor - https://imgur.com/v33v0px
Desktop Window Manager stops working detail - https://imgur.com/gLTBASf
Hardware Error detail - https://imgur.com/PtubzeQ

I think I will go 1060, but want to first make sure, as best as can be, that this is a GPU problem and not something more I'd hate to drop $300 on a 1060 and still have the problem. I think trying the older GPU might help determine that. I've also considered purchasing HWMonitorPro so I can do a remote view into temps from another computer, so that if DWM fails and I can't see current temp on the failed system, I might be able to see it on the paired computer.

Thanks again!

 

[aranel72]

The GTX 750Ti was an incredible help for me three years ago. It stabilized a 2009 PC that couldn't handle WoW without powering off. Though that's a different issue than the blue screens you are experiencing.

I would suggest a 1050Ti if the 1060 is too expensive.

P.S.
I would look into testing your system RAM for errors.

Great suggestion. I tried Windows Memory Diagnostic, didn't see any issues. I'll run again with MemTest86 to be sure.

 

[aranel72]

I think trying the older GPU might help determine that.

I don't know why I didn't try this sooner. Much to my surprise, no more problems And even with an older GPU (GTX 550 Ti), it plays WoW fairly well.

Thanks again all for your help.

 

[darckhart]

Just wanted to comment here to OP that the card with its preferred stable driver is the best combo. ie, the newest drivers may not always be the best choice, especially with older cards because nv tends to ... not pay as much attention to them. And especially since you don't play a wide variety of games, it's much easier to settle on the stable release.

Anyway, good thing you had the old card!

 

[Midwayman]

What is the health of your SSD? I had a PC with random crashes and it was driving me nuts. New CPU/MB, new GPU. Still crashing. Eventually looked at my SSD in detail when adding a NMVe SSD and it was old enough that it had run out of spare area. As soon as I replaced it all my problems went away. I don't know if your SSD is from 2012 as well, but it it is, it is likely worn out as well.