New Gaming PC

[JC0133]

First off I want to thank everybody for taking the time out to help me. I haven't build a PC in a long time so I have forgotten a lot. I will answer the require questions as best as I can, then gave you my personal thoughts.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?
Gaming

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
My budget is 2500 dollars.

3) Where do you live?
Phoenix, Arizona


4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?
I am building it from scratch. So I believe I will need
Display(2 displays)
Power supply
Case
Motherboard
Video Card
CPU
Cooling Fans
Memory/RAM
Optical Drives
Hard Drives
Operating System

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?
Not Reusing


6) Will you be overclocking?
No

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
At least 19" inches

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
I am starting my research now, I plan to start buying components in about 2 or 3 weeks, maybe 4. So I will probably start building my PC in early to mid December.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?
um I am not exactly sure here to be honest. I would like SLI or Crossfire(I am still learning what this is), RAID, SATA, and USB

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable
No

So here is what I am thinking. I have only built 2 PCs. My last one I built 6 years ago and it has lasted me up until now, but at this point every game I play has to be on the lowest settings. So time to build a new one in my mind.

So I don't know how accurate my info is but here are my idea's for my parts

Case
-I am thinking Antec(they same pretty good).
-Mid to Full Tower(I don't remember how big a mid tower is or if it would be big enough)
-I am also concerned about heat and noise(not sure how many fans the case should hold)

Questions
-what is the difference between ATX and the extended ATX?
-Can I put any power supply in any Case??
-what is an eSATA port?

Power Supply
-600 watts or more(I can't remember how many watts is good but I think 500 should be the least amount)
-Not sure what are some good power supply brands. I am thinking and Antec power supply.

Processor
-I am leaning towards Intel but love to hear some opinions here

Questions
-Does the processor some with the heatsink/thermo fluid that automatically melts when you cut it on? Or do you have to put the fluid on yourself?

Motherboard
-if I get an Intel Processor I am thinking I will go with an Intel mother board(but open to other suggestion here).

Questions
-Is ATX or BTX the way to go here? I don't really know the difference or which one is still in the majority?

RAM
-I believe I should have at least 4 Gigs of RAM
-I am thinking of going with Corsair(from my research they are pretty good)

Questions
-How does fast CAS Lantency and ECC memory(I believe this is for error checking) work?

Video Card

Questions
-I am not sure what to look for here?
-I am not sure which brand is good here. Ex ASUS, EVGA, SAPPHIRE etc?
-Is Crossfire and SLI the samething just one is for ATI and the other is from NVIDIA?

Display
-don't know much, just that I want 2 LCD Monitors

HardDrive
-Probably going with Seagate(open to other idea's)
-I am not sure on size but I am thinking 500 gigs is good.

Questions
-how important are the RAID set ups. Do they really help?
-for packaging. What is the difference between a bare drive and retail?

 

[Davidh373]

Case

-I am thinking Antec(they same pretty good).

Antec makes awesome cases. I normally recommend an Antec 300 or 600.

-Mid to Full Tower(I don't remember how big a mid tower is or if it would be big enough)

Mid Towers can range in size, but if you get the 300 or 600 either will be plenty roomy.

Power Supply

This varies too much to say. You want to match it with your build.

Processor

-I am leaning towards Intel but love to hear some opinions here

Intel is a wonderful choice for your budget.

-Does the processor some with the heatsink/thermo fluid that automatically melts when you cut it on? Or do you have to put the fluid on yourself?

You'll need to put the thermal paste on, although a 3rd party cooler is not required unless you overclock, or are focused on acoustics

Motherboard

-Is ATX or BTX the way to go here? I don't really know the difference or which one is still in the majority?

I would go with a 1156 socket Intel motherboard to match the processor I recommend below.

Graphics Card

-I am not sure what to look for here?

Well, what I look for is performance per Dollar. I see an expensive item that only gets a fraction of the performance more than an item that's dramatically less expensive it's out of my builds.

-I am not sure which brand is good here. Ex ASUS, EVGA, SAPPHIRE etc?

Brands tend to be good for different things. EVGA, for example is not a good motherboard brand for example.

-Is Crossfire and SLI the samething just one is for ATI and the other is from NVIDIA?

100% correct, the only difference is NVidia only licences SLI to Intel, while CrossfireX is available on both major platforms with the correct chipsets. I however, never recommend either as there are various issues that tend to plague multi-gpu systems.

Display

-don't know much, just that I want 2 LCD Monitors

Are you sure you only want 2? If you go with SLI you could have sorround, or if you went with AMD you can have Eyefinity with 3. 2 monitors will only really be enough to use 1 monitor for the game.

Hard Drive

-Probably going with Seagate(open to other idea's)
-I am not sure on size but I am thinking 500 gigs is good.

Seagate has gone down hill. Western Digital and Samsung are leading the way these days.

Cost per GB, 1TB drives are the best performing and cost effective drives around today. You can pick up a 1TB Samsung f3 for $55 until the end of November.

+SSD+

At your budget, you'll want to get an OS/ App drive.

-how important are the RAID set ups. Do they really help?

I would not waste money on a RAID for a gaming build.

-for packaging. What is the difference between a bare drive and retail?

None really. You get a pretty box you pay $10 for, but that's about the extent of it.

EDIT: I'll be getting a build together for you shortly.

 

[jaydee]

Initial thoughts:

First of all, don't buy anything until you see what's up on Black Friday or Cyber Monday. Here's a potential component breakdown without getting too specific. FYI, you can save money any step of the way here, I'm just trying to fill out your budget with the best suggestions.

CPU/mobo: You might want to wait until January to get a Sandy Bridge setup because that will be top of the line as soon as it comes out. It would be ok to buy all the other components on deals later this month, just leave ~$500 for CPU/mobo

Hard drive: you'll want an SSD, probably 120GB for ~$200. Again though, December/January is the projected timeframe for the next gen SSD's, I might be inclined to wait and see what Sandforce 2000 brings. Mechanical 1-2TB storage drive for <$100 and maybe a second one for backup. So that's ~$400 here.

Video card: Benches aren't out yet, but you'll likely want an AMD Radeon 6970 when it comes out very soon, or maybe CF'd 6870?. Someone else can help more here. ~$400-500

RAM: Unless you're doing something extravagent, a 6GB triple-channel kit for ~$100 will do the job.

Optical Drive: $20 for a standard DVD burner, up to ~$100 if you want a Blu-ray burner.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136181

Power supply, you're looking at something like the Corsair 750TX for ~$100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139006

Case & Cooling, you'll need to decide on how big, if you're overclocking, how much airflow, water cooling, etc. Antec, Lian Li & CoolerMaster are the general favorites here, there are a few other good brands. Personally, I like Lian Li. Plan on spending $100-200
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112249

LCDs: I would go with two 23-24". I personally like 1920x1080 LED-backlit's for ~$200 each. You can go 120Hz, or bigger 1920x1200 resolution, but you'll likely have to give up LED backlit or spend a decent amount more on LCD's. Research and decide for yourself. $400-500
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824116447
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236102
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824001419

OS: Win7 x64 HP for ~$100

 

[Davidh373]

Case - Antec 600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-079-_-Product

Power Supply - Corsair 750TX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9006&amp;Tpk=750TX

Processor - Core i5 760
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-067-_-Product

Motherboard - Gigabyte 1156 w/ SATA III and USB 3.0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-412-_-Product

RAM - 8GB DDR3 1333Mhz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-311-_-Product

Graphics - Geforce GTX 480
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-552-_-Product

SSD - OCZ Agility 2 120GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-543-_-Product

HDD - 2X Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-185-_-Product

Optical - Samsung Blu Ray Reader + DVD Reader/Writer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151222

Total: $1556.70

 

[jaydee]

Questions
-what is the difference between ATX and the extended ATX?
-Can I put any power supply in any Case??
-what is an eSATA port?

Extended ATX is bigger. You shouldn't need an Extended ATX mobo, dont' worry about it.

Generally, you can put any >500W PSU in any mid-ATX or larger case.

E-Sata is external SATA, faster external interface than USB 2. It's a nice option to have and most motherboards have it available. Some cases have one on the front panel.



The big questions for you are:

1. Can you wait until January to finish the build (for the next-gen CPU)?
2. Are you planning on overclocking?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

If you are dead set against overclocking, get a chip that has a good turbo frequency.

I overclock my gaming rigs so I just get a chip with the features I want and go from there.

Overclocking your video or CPU would effect your PSU decision-making. I'd say something around 650w would be sufficient. Personally if I was in the market today, i'd buy the fanless Seasonic 400w PSU which is around ~90% efficient between ~100 to 400w http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...%20400w%20Gold

Seasonic article review: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=200

120Hz LCD monitors for the serious gamer: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...LCD%20Monitors

The other thing I stress with a gaming rig is a 500-1000Hz polling rated mouse which cuts down on input lag.

 

[mfenn]

Case - Antec 600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-079-_-Product

Power Supply - Corsair 750TX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9006&amp;Tpk=750TX

Processor - Core i5 760
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-067-_-Product

Motherboard - Gigabyte 1156 w/ SATA III and USB 3.0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-412-_-Product

RAM - 8GB DDR3 1333Mhz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-311-_-Product

Graphics - Geforce GTX 480
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-552-_-Product

SSD - OCZ Agility 2 120GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-543-_-Product

HDD - 2X Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-185-_-Product

Optical - Samsung Blu Ray Reader + DVD Reader/Writer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151222

Total: $1556.70

This looks good, potentially cutting back to a GTX 470 and 650TX.

I'm not interested in trying to be a crystal ball, so I'd say that this build will hold for the next 2 weeks. If you're looking to build early-December, then you should update this thread then.

Some general points:

• If you're new to building, don't go for Crossfire/SLI.
• Don't spend $2500 on a computer. Spend $1-1.5k and save the rest for upgrades in 18 months
• Don't worry about ECC or RAID
• BTX was an interesting experiment, but is pretty much dead in the enthusiast space.
• You'll want monitors far larger than 19". ~24" is the sweet spot.

 

[JC0133]

Hard Drive

Seagate has gone down hill. Western Digital and Samsung are leading the way these days.

Cost per GB, 1TB drives are the best performing and cost effective drives around today. You can pick up a 1TB Samsung f3 for $55 until the end of November.

+SSD+

At your budget, you'll want to get an OS/ App drive.


I would not waste money on a RAID for a gaming build.

None really. You get a pretty box you pay $10 for, but that's about the extent of it.

EDIT: I'll be getting a build together for you shortly.

How exactly does an SSD drive work? Or here is a better question. If I get an SSD drive. I put my OS on there. Say if I want to install a new program like a Game or new software. Since my OS is on the SSD drive, want all my other application I install be on the SSD drive as well??

Meaning the tera drive is much bigger so I would prefer to install my OS on the SSD drive (for faster loading times)but like for example put World of Warcraft on the Tera Hard drive and save my games there. Is that possible? Or is that even smart?

Right now I am looking at the SSD drive for speed and the TeraDrive for space.

Display



Are you sure you only want 2? If you go with SLI you could have sorround, or if you went with AMD you can have Eyefinity with 3. 2 monitors will only really be enough to use 1 monitor for the game.

I am getting a little confused here. What is Eyefinity? Also When you say AMD are you talking about the processor or what??

 

[mfenn]

How exactly does an SSD drive work? Or here is a better question. If I get an SSD drive. I put my OS on there. Say if I want to install a new program like a Game or new software. Since my OS is on the SSD drive, want all my other application I install be on the SSD drive as well??

Meaning the tera drive is much bigger so I would prefer to install my OS on the SSD drive (for faster loading times)but like for example put World of Warcraft on the Tera Hard drive and save my games there. Is that possible? Or is that even smart?

Right now I am looking at the SSD drive for speed and the TeraDrive for space.

The bolded is possible, smart and recommended! Just because the OS is installed on a certain drive does not mean that all programs have to be installed on that drive. You'll want to put your commonly used programs (web browsers, email clients, Office, etc.) on the SSD and leave the big stuff like games to the HDD.

I am getting a little confused here. What is Eyefinity? Also When you say AMD are you talking about the processor or what??

AMD bought ATI several years back and has now completely transitioned to using the AMD brand on GPUs as well as CPUs.

Here's a primer on Eyefinity. My personal opinion is that it's not all that it is cracked up to be and not worry about it.

 

[Davidh373]

How exactly does an SSD drive work? Or here is a better question. If I get an SSD drive. I put my OS on there. Say if I want to install a new program like a Game or new software. Since my OS is on the SSD drive, want all my other application I install be on the SSD drive as well??

Meaning the tera drive is much bigger so I would prefer to install my OS on the SSD drive (for faster loading times)but like for example put World of Warcraft on the Tera Hard drive and save my games there. Is that possible? Or is that even smart?

Right now I am looking at the SSD drive for speed and the TeraDrive for space.

That's precisely what it's used for.

AMD is the new ATI, they've owned ATI for a while now and decided to merge the names. If you get a 5xxx or 6xxx GPU you can plug up to 3 monitors into 1 card and have the game expand across the resolution of all 3 monitors. The 6xxx series from AMD also supports 3D, so if you want to get 120Hz monitors and 3D glasses you can play your games in 3D. If you only get two monitors it will still stretch across two, but it won't make sense because your crosshairs (or in 3rd person type games the character) will be split in half by the borders on the monitors. If you have one centered monitor and two side monitors it will allow you to view things properly.

 

[JC0133]

ok now with that said. As far as Hard drives and SSD goes. I am thinking of Getting an SSD drive for my OS, 1TB drive for other program installs(games, etc) and another drive(not sure if it should be a regular Hard drive or a SSD drive) for Linux.

So in Total 3 hard drives. 1 SSD and 1 TB for sure. And another for Linux, any ideas if I should make the LInux another SSD or regular Hard drive?

 

[Davidh373]

You can run linux off your HDD.

 

[jaydee]

ok now with that said. As far as Hard drives and SSD goes. I am thinking of Getting an SSD drive for my OS, 1TB drive for other program installs(games, etc) and another drive(not sure if it should be a regular Hard drive or a SSD drive) for Linux.

So in Total 3 hard drives. 1 SSD and 1 TB for sure. And another for Linux, any ideas if I should make the LInux another SSD or regular Hard drive?

I've got a 60GB SSD for Windows and a 30GB for Linux/Ubuntu (well, technically not installed yet). Linux is small enough and lacking in large installation files (for most folks), that I find a 30GB SSD to be ideal. I've got the 30GB OCZ Onyx which is now on-sale for $57 AR at newegg. Not the fastest, but sure fast enough and the price is right. Latest Linux kernals have TRIM from what I've read, so you can comfortably use about 25GB of the drive. With your budget, I would buy the separate SSD.


I do want to reiterate though, that noticably faster CPU's, in your budget range, will be available in about two months. My recommendation for high-end builds right now are to wait for Sandy Bridge unless you have really compelling reasons to upgrade now. Your current computer has lasted 6 years, I assume that you're going to have this new one for approximately the same length of time, two months is rather insignificant IMO.

 

[JC0133]

Questions
Cases
-What is the difference between a Ball-Bearing Fan vs a regular Fan?
-Is the bigger the fan in mm better for noise or airflow or both??
- Also is it better for the fan to move at a faster RPM? Does that mean more noise?
-Does it matter if the Case is steel vs Aluminum? How much better is Aluminum for heat?

Power Supply
-How much power in watts should a power suppy have at least for a gamming PC? Also how much if the PC was running SLI or Crossfire??
-If the Power Supply says SLI/Crossfire Ready or Certified, does that mean it can run them both with no problems.

 

[fffblackmage]

Questions
Cases
-What is the difference between a Ball-Bearing Fan vs a regular Fan?
Sleeve bearing fans are cheaper, but have a shorter lifespan, especially under hot conditions. They also don't like being placed horizontally.
Ball-bearing have a longer lifespan, but are more expensive.
-Is the bigger the fan in mm better for noise or airflow or both??
Both.
- Also is it better for the fan to move at a faster RPM? Does that mean more noise?
Correct. You could move more air, but that requires a higher RPM, which increases noise. However, a larger fan can move more air with a lower RPM, making the larger fan a better choice when it comes to getting the best airflow with least amount of noise.
-Does it matter if the Case is steel vs Aluminum? How much better is Aluminum for heat?
I don't think that matters.

Power Supply
-How much power in watts should a power suppy have at least for a gamming PC? Also how much if the PC was running SLI or Crossfire??
This really depends on your choice of CPU and GPU. Typically, ~500W is enough. However, some higher-end GPUs like the GTX470 and GTX480 will require more power (maybe ~650W).
For SLI/xfire, again, it depends on the GPUs. Two moderate GPUs like two 6870 can probably run fine on a 650W psu, but two GTX480 will require more power.
-If the Power Supply says SLI/Crossfire Ready or Certified, does that mean it can run them both with no problems.
Depends on the GPUs and the power rating of the PSU. Usually, the certification will mean it has the proper connectors for supporting two GPUs, but you should double check how many PCIe connectors the PSU can provide anyways.

...

 

[JC0133]

Questions

Power Supply
What does is the EPS 12 V for?
1 x 8-Pin EPS 12V

 

[mfenn]

Questions

Power Supply
What does is the EPS 12 V for?
1 x 8-Pin EPS 12V

That connector plugs into the motherboard to provide extra 12V current. Any modern power supply will have one, so you don't have to worry about it.

 

[JC0133]

Questions
Motherboard Memory Standards

DDR3 2200(O.C.)/2133(O.C.)/2000(O.C.)/1800(O.C.)/1600(O.C.)/1333/1066

what exactly does this mean? what does the O.C. mean? The numbers are for the Ram right? Meaning I can get DDR3 Ram for 1600 or DDR3 for 1333? I don't understand why it has the " / " sign there?

 

[JC0133]

Also what is the Difference between an OEM Operating System and a Retail? Do they both work for a newly built PC? If the Adobe Reader does not appear when you click on a link for a PDF file, you can download Adobe Reader from the Adobe web site.

 

[betasub]

The "/" is simply punctunation to delineate a break, a comma would accomplish the same job.

Memory speeds are simply some of the possible speeds recognised and functional with the board's BIOS. 1333 and 1066 are JDEC standards for DDR3, the others are un-official and so classified as overclocked (O.C.) memory speed.

P.S. Please use the edit button to add to an existing post, rather than posting immediately after one of your own.

 

[jaydee]

Also what is the Difference between an OEM Operating System and a Retail? Do they both work for a newly built PC? If the Adobe Reader does not appear when you click on a link for a PDF file, you can download Adobe Reader from the Adobe web site.

Retail grants the user Microsoft tech support, OEM does not.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Retail grants the user Microsoft tech support, OEM does not.

And retail licenses can be moved between machines and motherboards, while OEM claims to be "married" to the motherboard, meaning if you change your motherboard or the whole computer, Microsoft in all of their greed believes that you have to pay twice for what you already own. I only buy retail OS licenses, except in the rare cases like WHS that only come in OEM (which I think is horsesh*t personally).

 

[mfenn]

And retail licenses can be moved between machines and motherboards, while OEM claims to be "married" to the motherboard, meaning if you change your motherboard or the whole computer, Microsoft in all of their greed believes that you have to pay twice for what you already own. I only buy retail OS licenses, except in the rare cases like WHS that only come in OEM (which I think is horsesh*t personally).

I've never experienced them enforcing that bit, though maybe I just ask especially nicely?

 

[JC0133]

If my Video Card supports dual Montors. Will it be possible for me to be playing a PC game on one display while running another application(ex. Web browser or Media player) in the other display? Or will the game automatically take over both displays?

 

[mfenn]

If my Video Card supports dual Montors. Will it be possible for me to be playing a PC game on one display while running another application(ex. Web browser or Media player) in the other display? Or will the game automatically take over both displays?

Normally the game will be on one and the other will still show your desktop. Sometimes it can be a PITA trying to get your mouse "out of the game" so that you can actually do something on the other monitor though.