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New gaming/heavy use system

S

shud

Golden Member
I'm about 2 years into using me 2500+ build and I figured it was time to actually build a nice system (this one was about a $500 budget build back in the day, aka June 2003). I can play games ok on the current system, but it currently isn't and was never intended to play games all that well. With BF2 and ultimately COD2 🙂D) on the horizon, I want to build a nice machine. Not to mention that the 2500+ and 512mb of DDR333 is getting sluggish by my standards. I also do a lot of music listening/editing, dvd ripping/authoring, etc. Here's what I have so far:

AMD 3700+
ATI X800 Pro 256mb PCI-E
1gb Corsair XMS (512x2, the $115 type from Newegg)
Abit AN8 uGuru
Generic NON-WINDOW'D case 🙂
Thermaltake 420w PSU
Seagate 80gb SATA150

Reasons for my choices:

The 3700+ San Diego is $150 cheaper than the 4000+ and still sports the 1MB L2 cache. It's also about $50 cheaper (give or take) than the 3800+ Venice which has half the L2.

For the x800 Pro, I've always been a Radeon fan and it's sort of a middle of the road performance card. I might sub this out for a 6800GT that my friend is selling soon. Can't go wrong either way, right?

1gb Corsair XMS. This is the $115 set from Newegg. They also have another set of 1gb XMS at about $150, and another coming in somewhere in the 170 range. This is where I get confused. What exactly is the DIFFERENCE between these, and is it really worth 35 more dollars to get the stuff that's $150?

The uGuru thing sold me, and Abit boards are always pretty solid.

This thermaltake ps is on sale today at Newegg. Barring any flaming reviews, I'm going with it.

80gb may not seem like a lot, but I'll be storing all data files on my 400gb of other space. My only question is that will the SATA not interface well with my older ATA100/133 drives?


I'll be bringing over my NEC 3500a (or whatever the 16x all format dvd-writer is) and my old file drives. The 2500+ system will be saved for usage with the 17" LCD that is now my 2nd monitor and will be used for me to experiment with various unix and linux builds.


Any advice would be MUCH appreciated!
 
considering you will be doing a lot of video/audio encoding you may want to look at the dual core athlons or maybe a flavor of a p4, they are usually better at encoding where the athlon is better at gaming. you way want to look at the reviews here on anandtech to see which chips holds the better advantage for what you want to do as i would also look at the benches for the video cards.

the difference in the ram is most likely timings, which really won't make a lot of difference unless you o/c.

there will be no problem using a pata drive as most of the new motherboards have 2 ide connector and as many as 8 sata connectors.
 
That is a fine computer and everything is compatible and should work well. But I will offer some suggestions to same money and optimize performance.


Mobo: DFI NF4 Ultra or the NF4 regular. To me the extra fans on the newer abit series seem ridiculous. Also the new DFI are supposed to be the "best" at OC'ing.

Ram: There are three ways you can go here in my mind. Either get some corsair value for about $75 (and OC with divider), some overclocker value such as the OCZ Value VX etc.. or get some high end OC ram. The corsair you picked out is not bad, but its probably not going to be the best OCer out there. The A64 can run with dividers pretty well, so it really comes down to... do you want to save money and OC with a divider, or do you want to go all out with 1:1 memory ratio.

Video: This is a touchy subject and is going to make a difference if you want to unlock the Pro, but I hear the X800XL with its 16 pipelines can be better than the Pro (a little bit more money) might want to look at it.

PSU: probably fine, though thermaltake is probably not a favorite of many people around here. I would go with a good antec, enermax, OCZ, seasonic etc..

HDD: Looks good, but if you check the prices a 120 - 160 gig can be picked up with a minimal increase in cost. Getting more space cant hurt even if you plan on using something else for storage.

CPU: looks excellent
 
Thanks for the tips. I think I'm going to stick with the AN8 simply because of its software interface that lets you tweak OC options from Windows. I've never been a huge overclocking fan but I usually bump my clock speeds up about 4 or 500 mhz, and for the minimal overclocking I do it would be nice not to have to mess with the Bios.

Will look into the X800XL, and I've been looking around for some rebate deals to get a SATA 7200 rpm 120 or 160 for about the same as the 80. I just heard that Seagates were quite and pretty reliable.

Also, could someone explain the whole "dividing" thing to me? Like a lot of people I completely drop out of the tech loop between builds and I haven't kept up much more than paying attention to the advances in 64 bit stuff, so I have no idea what dividing is.
 
I'd wait until you can afford two 1GB sticks of RAM and invest in an X2 dual core CPU. Since you want to play BF2 and CoD2 you're going to be better off with more than 1GB of RAM (don't buy into the 1GB recommended requirements, not if you want the best possible experience). That doesn't even touch on the fact that you do video/audio work which typically receives a huge boost with several gigs. By investing in two 1GB sticks of RAM you allow the A64 to run the memory at its most aggressive timings and suffer no slowdown. As for the X2, I only recommend it because you do work other than gaming and in the next couple of years games will make use of dual core as well. It's a solid investment. Still, if you're not sold on dual core or you do lots more gaming than productive work, you could always get a 3700+ San Diego and be quite well off for a while. However, definitely consider 2GBs (1024mbx2) of RAM in either case.
 
you will most likely run a 32bit version of winxp on it, not the 64bit version. as far as dividing, do you mean memory dividing? like running the memory out of sync?
 
I don't know what I mean. A few posts up someone mentioned running the RAM with dividers. I have no idea what that means.

Also, I should specify that I don't do the audio/video stuff professionally or anything. It's more of a hobby, and this system is intended more as a gaming/general use machine. My current machine is more or less just too slow for the multitasking I do.
 
Since you say this will be a heavy use system then I would go with a 4200+ Dual Core model ADA4200BVBOX. These should be avalable in less than a week from some merchants and 2.5 weeks for most others.
 
Although I'd like to, I can't spend $550 on a processor. I'm trying to keep this as close to under $1000 as I can. I should have mentioned that. Money is DEFINITELY an object here.

But since the X2s are socket 939 also, I may upgrade to one in the future.
 
A memory divider is a clock divider... Usualy your Mem is running 1:1 ratio with the FSB but you can change that...

Example
FSB = 200MHz then
HTT = 200MHz x4 = 800MHz
CPU = 200MHz x 10 = 2000MHz
Mem = 200MHz x 1/1 x 2 = 400MHz

Say you OverClock:
FSB = 250MHz then
HTT = 250MHz x4 = 1000MHz
CPU = 250MHz x 10 = 2500MHz
Mem = 250MHz x 1/1 x 2 = 500MHz

But if you memory can't overclock that much you change the divider:
FSB = 250MHz then
HTT = 250MHz x4 = 1000MHz
CPU = 250MHz x 10 = 2500MHz
Mem = 250MHz x 4/5 x 2 = 400MHz

Enjoi!
 
So I don't need performance stuff, then? Would I be better off with 2GB of Value stuff over 1GB of XMS?
 
Originally posted by: shud
So I don't need performance stuff, then? Would I be better off with 2GB of Value stuff over 1GB of XMS?
Click to expand...

yep, for everyday use value is fine, and if you OC, use a divider and the value still works.
 
Originally posted by: Starman
Since you're not too heavy into multi-threaded apps, I say get the 3700+ San Diego and 2GBs (1024mbx2) of RAM.
Click to expand...

He did say he was a heavy multitasker, so dual core is much better suited even if it is being used on multiple single thread applications. Just add a lot of ram and it will make a nice combination. 4gb?
 
Awesome. Looks like I'll just go with about $140 worth of value ram and get 2gb out of it.

Another question (sorry). What would be a good brand to get of an OEM X800XL? There cheapest on Newegg is a powercolor, but I've always heard that Sapphire is a great OEM brand. It's about $30 more than the Powercolor.
 
Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: Starman
Since you're not too heavy into multi-threaded apps, I say get the 3700+ San Diego and 2GBs (1024mbx2) of RAM.
Click to expand...

He did say he was a heavy multitasker, so dual core is much better suited even if it is being used on multiple single thread applications. Just add a lot of ram and it will make a nice combination. 4gb?
Click to expand...

It's not constant heavy usage. Dual core and 4gb of RAM would be absolute overkill.

It's just that I field a lot of IMs (both personal and work related), have multiple e-mail clients/web clients open, browse a lot of forums and am often listening to music while transfering files (ftp and windows both) and compressing/encoding movies. Obviously I'm not this busy ALL of the time, but my current system comes to a virtual standstill if I'm RARing or unRARing something and have a few FireFox windows open along with Winamp.

 
Originally posted by: thegimp03
Powercolor is a very good brand as well. You can't go wrong with either Sapphire or Powercolor.
Click to expand...

Great. It's about the same price for the Powercolor XL as the Sapphire Pro, so looks like I'll go with that unless my buddy comes through with the 6800GT.


Also, is there any particular value ram to stay away from? I was going to go with Corsair, but I noticed I can get some stuff for almost $15 less per pair of sticks.
 
The point is not just to have 2GBs, but to get them in two sticks. If you populate all DIMM banks with 512MB sticks you're going to face having to drop the command rate to 2T or worse, running the memory underclocked at 333Mhz. That's why I suggested two 1024mb sticks. With 2GB (1024mbx2) you can still run at the fastest possible timings and stay at 1T. You won't need over 2GBs for a while and by the time you do that whole memory-controller issue with the Athlons will be completely resolved (allowing full DDR400 operation with all DIMM banks filled). Another benefit of having just two 1GB DIMMs is that you can always stretch the total installed RAM to 4GB...a monster. Who knows, somewhere down the road with the advancement of S939 X2 chips you might just come to a point where 4GB makes a nice companion. Right now, do it for optimum speed 😉
 
Originally posted by: Starman
The point is not just to have 2GBs, but to get them in two sticks. If you populate all DIMM banks with 512MB sticks you're going to face having to drop the command rate to 2T or worse, running the memory underclocked at 333Mhz. That's why I suggested two 1024mb sticks. With 2GB (1024mbx2) you can still run at the fastest possible timings and stay at 1T. You won't need over 2GBs for a while and by the time you do that whole memory-controller issue with the Athlons will be completely resolved (allowing full DDR400 operation with all DIMM banks filled). Another benefit of having just two 1GB DIMMs is that you can always stretch the total installed RAM to 4GB...a monster. Who knows, somewhere down the road with the advancement of S939 X2 chips you might just come to a point where 4GB makes a nice companion. Right now, do it for optimum speed 😉
Click to expand...

Ok, my mistake. My rent for the fall is due before I can complete this computer anyway, so I guess I'll just wait and hope the price on 1GB strips drops some in the next two weeks or so. Definitely want this built in time for BF2, though.
 
Originally posted by: Starman
The point is not just to have 2GBs, but to get them in two sticks. If you populate all DIMM banks with 512MB sticks you're going to face having to drop the command rate to 2T or worse, running the memory underclocked at 333Mhz. That's why I suggested two 1024mb sticks. With 2GB (1024mbx2) you can still run at the fastest possible timings and stay at 1T. You won't need over 2GBs for a while and by the time you do that whole memory-controller issue with the Athlons will be completely resolved (allowing full DDR400 operation with all DIMM banks filled). Another benefit of having just two 1GB DIMMs is that you can always stretch the total installed RAM to 4GB...a monster. Who knows, somewhere down the road with the advancement of S939 X2 chips you might just come to a point where 4GB makes a nice companion. Right now, do it for optimum speed 😉
Click to expand...

That is true with Winchester and earlier processors, but AMD said they fixed that with Venice; Now you can obtain 4GB by using 512*4=2048mb. It's time to change some conventional ideas or thinking when it comes to Venice Core Processors, they are differant.
 
Well, I'm probably going with the 3700+ San Diego for the 1MB cache.

I've never done much overclocking. Would it be really beneficial to drop to a 3200+ and just OC it a bunch? And by beneficial, I mean beneficial to my wallet. 🙂 Keep in mind that I like to multitask a lot. My two main goals with this system are to be able to play new games for a few years and be able to multitask (even switch out of games and whatnot) with ease and speed.

The 3200+ Venice is $140 cheaper than the 3700+ I was looking at. That's pretty enticing, but if the OC'ing will stress the sytem too much, forget it.
 
Originally posted by: Googer
Originally posted by: Starman
The point is not just to have 2GBs, but to get them in two sticks. If you populate all DIMM banks with 512MB sticks you're going to face having to drop the command rate to 2T or worse, running the memory underclocked at 333Mhz. That's why I suggested two 1024mb sticks. With 2GB (1024mbx2) you can still run at the fastest possible timings and stay at 1T. You won't need over 2GBs for a while and by the time you do that whole memory-controller issue with the Athlons will be completely resolved (allowing full DDR400 operation with all DIMM banks filled). Another benefit of having just two 1GB DIMMs is that you can always stretch the total installed RAM to 4GB...a monster. Who knows, somewhere down the road with the advancement of S939 X2 chips you might just come to a point where 4GB makes a nice companion. Right now, do it for optimum speed 😉
Click to expand...

That is true with Winchester and earlier processors, but AMD said they fixed that with Venice; Now you can obtain 4GB by using 512*4=2048mb. It's time to change some conventional ideas or thinking when it comes to Venice Core Processors, they are differant.
Click to expand...

The only thing that Venice (and later cores) have changed is that now you may run 4 single-sided DIMMs without issue and when running 4 double-sided DIMMs you may achieve the proper DDR400 speed. However, bear in mind that even with these newer cores you will be stuck lowering your command rate to 2T and you can forget about getting any decent overclocking results. Many people have incorrectly assumed, with the introduction of the Venice and San Diego cores, that all memory-related problems have disappeared; that is not the case. AMD has taken a small step in the right direction, but there's still work to be done and there are still drawbacks to populating all four of your DIMM slots.
 
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