New era of GPU. Ananadtech needs to do this.

[Cattykit]

Those who work on video, especially those who have tried to edit vDSLR h.264 clips would know how Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 changed everything dramatically. Thanks to its Mercury Engine that takes advantage of CUDA, encoding time is much shorter and real-time editing became possible.

Though I'm currently using crappy GT 240, the performance gain I witnessed is simply breathtaking. I can only imagine what Fermi can do.
(I've seen a benchmark where GTX 470 made encoding time 15x faster. This can be safely considered as a miracle)

It's not just I who are blown away by CUDA performance. Go to any video forum sites and you'll see how people are excited over PP CS5 and CUDA.

The only problem is that hardware sites do not seem to care about this. It's still pretty much all about games. Even hardware gurus on various hardware forums seem to only care about gaming performance. This needs to be changed.

The use of GPU is expanding beyond traditional notion. It's not only about games anymore. As more people are getting hooked up on vDSLR cameras, more people are looking for GPU solutions. The major problem here is that most of people on video forums are clueless when it comes down to computer hardware matters. They may know so much about digital sensor technologies but not about computer hardware. There exists great confusion on this GPU matter and there's a great gap in between computer hardware people and video people.
(Though I'm not that much of a knowledgeable person compared to those gurus on hardware and video sites, people on video forums regard me very highly for I have my background in computer hardwares. It's quite amazing if you go to those forums. I don't know why but there seems to be nobody who acutally understands both worlds.)

As a member who has been here since the birth of Anandtech, I think it's about time Anandtech do what they have done: bring out something new and do what others haven't done.

Though a few individuals have done their own benchmark tests, there remain much more to be answered.

A few things I think that should be addressed:

1. What matters the most for GPU video editing solution. Is it the clock speed? RAM speed? Bandwidth? Cuda Cores? multi processors...etc.?

2. As in games, GPU and CPU works together. What's the relationship? What's the max. GPU for this CPU?

3. Performance differences between different products.


Really, it's about time AT does this. Not only it'll help out thousands and thousands of those clueless video people, but Anandtech will also generate large amount of new customers (if we can be seen as customers.)
It'll also match with what AT has been trying to do in recent years. From what I saw, I have noticed AT has been trying to be more than a computer hardware review site. By providing clear answer to those questions, AT will be regarded highly and stood upon other sites.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I have a GTX470 on its way to me specifically for CUDA and Premiere Pro CS5. Coming from a 1GHz 5850 its basically a side-grade (or even downgrade if I don't overclock the 470, which I probably will) in terms of gaming, but should make Premiere Pro night and day better to work with.

If nVidia is going to survive the coming GPU/CPU hybridization that is inevitable, its going to be thanks to their pioneering with things like CUDA. Unfortunately if they fall behind in and/or eventually entirely out of the consumer area, it will probably mean only super expensive Quadro parts instead of veritable bargains like the $270 I paid for the GTX470 ($250 after I get my rebate).

Its going to be an interesting couple of years to see how things start to pan out.

 

[Silverforce11]

I use stream to encode videos. Works fine and quick.

But yes, CUDA is more out there and supported. Thats one thing lacking at ATI, they just can't throw $$ or manpower at software developers as much as NV can.. or should i say, "has been", cos their 2011 finances is looking grim.

 

[Madcatatlas]

Im so terribly sorry...but the timing of this topic..




I do agree on a broader aspect of tests for GPUs, but we all know at this moment what card is better at what you mentioned. The very fact that Fermi was made from the start as "multitasking" gpu, instead of a gaming first gpu, requires it to be faster in nongaming applications. most anyway.

Question to you cattykit:

Since you are so interested in the subject you raise, have you compared the different architectures of AMD and Nvidia? Have you read any such articles? Id really like to read abit on this too you see.

I do understand that it may be the Lack of such articles, that prods you to ask in the first place, but i would think there were some numbers out there showing the different strengts of cypress vs fermi or the 4k series vs the g200 series.

In anycase, im afraid we will run into the same problem as we are in the gaming world. Nvidias sleazy (sleazy has become a synononym for Nvidia) way of doing business will just crap on the different tests.

As written by RS, Nvidia makes alot of their net income from their Quadro line of graphics cards. They are the major player in that market and as Silverforce11 mentioned above, i dont think AMD has the dollars to pay for the bills investing "too" heavily in that area. This may change in one or two years if AMD can strengthen their position in the discrete market even further.

 

[biostud]

I think it would be better to test the software that uses CUDA and do an article about that instead of mixing it into every videocard review. Most users are interested in gaming peroformance and not so much in "pro" performace and personally I would rather have an article with focus only on gaming and one only on "pro".

And I would very much like to know a lot more about the status of CUDA/openCL enhanced programs.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Really, it's about time AT does this. Not only it'll help out thousands and thousands of those clueless video people, but Anandtech will also generate large amount of new customers (if we can be seen as customers.)

It would certainly help broaden the appeal with a wider audience, but they would take a lot of heat from the cheerleaders of ATi on this site, and there are a lot of them.

I use stream to encode videos. Works fine and quick.

This isn't encoding, this is video editing. Very big difference.

I do agree on a broader aspect of tests for GPUs, but we all know at this moment what card is better at what you mentioned.

Really? What's faster for a CS5 Premiere render, a GT240 or GTS250?

Not everything in the computing world comes down to team red versus team green, and the question I just asked you is a trick one

 

[Keysplayr]

What could ATI fans possibly say about a CUDA only review? Or should I say, what objections do you think they would have if AT conducted a CUDA review? Bias? Paid by Nvidia to do it? That's a given that some people would react that way, but should they be paid any attention at all? Could always ask AT toi conduct a Stream only review as well. Create a new GPGPU news section. Would any ATI fans care to comment on how you would receive a CUDA only review or Stream only review? And also how you would react if only one was done first and not the other?

 

[Keysplayr]

Im so terribly sorry...but the timing of this topic...

Why are you sorry and what sort of timing?

 

[MrK6]

If there's interest in this, I think it would be a great article for someone at Anandtech to undertake if they have some sort of expertise. My question is, is this area developing fast enough to warrant inclusion in reviews, or is an annual/semi-annual article more than enough? My guess is once an architecture is introduced, performance is relatively easy to predict with scaling. However, I have little experience in this field, so I can't say more than it would be interesting to see.

 

[Kenmitch]

Why are you sorry and what sort of timing?

An inpartial answer to your question would be something as follows:

With the impending release of a video card series the propaganda machine starts rolling. Threads will pop up pushing features, strengths, etc. of the team that is behind. This is done to sway the opinion of those whom are thinking of upgrading....Or heaven forbid defecting to the other team.

Things like this are done to steal the thunder!

As far as doing reviews like the OP suggested it wouldn't bother me as I wouldn't read them anyways....Not into that kinda stuff but might be of some interest/benefit to others tho.

 

[rolodomo]

I agree, video hardware reviews seem trend paint by numbers these days. My favorite example is the emerging class of monitors/televisions that cooperatively offload processing overhead from the gpu and the lack of coverage.

I have a ton of family h.264 clips piling up because I can't sit at my computer all week waiting for encode jobs to finish. Yet I can't justify the $700 price for premier pro. Is there any second or third best program around $150 that at least takes some advantage of my gtx480?

 

[Wreckage]

I agree, video hardware reviews seem trend paint by numbers these days. My favorite example is the emerging class of monitors/televisions that cooperatively offload processing overhead from the gpu and the lack of coverage.

I have a ton of family h.264 clips piling up because I can't sit at my computer all week waiting for encode jobs to finish. Yet I can't justify the $700 price for premier pro. Is there any second or third best program around $150 that at least takes some advantage of my gtx480?

http://www.elitebastards.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=732&Itemid=29

 

[Avalon]

Why are you sorry and what sort of timing?

He's just wearing a tin foil hat, don't mind him Keys.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I agree, video hardware reviews seem trend paint by numbers these days. My favorite example is the emerging class of monitors/televisions that cooperatively offload processing overhead from the gpu and the lack of coverage.

I have a ton of family h.264 clips piling up because I can't sit at my computer all week waiting for encode jobs to finish. Yet I can't justify the $700 price for premier pro. Is there any second or third best program around $150 that at least takes some advantage of my gtx480?

Another thing a review would reveal (and hopefully explain why) is that technically the GTX480 is not yet supported by Adobe for Premiere Pro CS5, only the GTX285 or GTX470 are supported outside of the Quadro cards.

And yet another thing a review could touch upon would be the potential hacks to get other cards (such as the GTX480) to work.

 

[ModestGamer]

I think its great nvidia has a market. The cuda accelerated video encoding is awesome. The reality both AMD/ATI and nvidia can actually perform these task on the current hardware. the issues to date have been software support. Granted cude is more of a purpose built GPU core to handle encoding but regular gpu cores are 80% as capable which would still make for a significant jump in power.

I for one take no issue with reviews. They will heavily favor nvidia becuase nvidia is really pushing this market hard.

 

[BenSkywalker]

What could ATI fans possibly say about a CUDA only review?

If you do CUDA only you are running a fluff piece to promote nVidia. If you include ATi parts and look at general GPGPU, you are paid by nVidia to make ATi look bad. It is a no win situation for the cheerleaders in terms of AT.

The reality both AMD/ATI and nvidia can actually perform these task on the current hardware.

What the OP is talking about is only possible on nV parts and CPUs currently. This isn't about reencoding a video, this is actual editing of the footage. CUDA isn't just a PR line, the architecture of nV chips has considerable die space dedicated to GPGPU functionality, ATi's parts do not match this. This is the tradeoff nV pays with higher power useage and larger die sizes, and it appears that most of the ATi loyalists want to keep it that way(which would result in nV having this market to themselves).

 

[ModestGamer]

If you do CUDA only you are running a fluff piece to promote nVidia. If you include ATi parts and look at general GPGPU, you are paid by nVidia to make ATi look bad. It is a no win situation for the cheerleaders in terms of AT.



What the OP is talking about is only possible on nV parts and CPUs currently. This isn't about reencoding a video, this is actual editing of the footage. CUDA isn't just a PR line, the architecture of nV chips has considerable die space dedicated to GPGPU functionality, ATi's parts do not match this. This is the tradeoff nV pays with higher power useage and larger die sizes, and it appears that most of the ATi loyalists want to keep it that way(which would result in nV having this market to themselves).

Having read the AMD white papers on cypress rv7xx etc. I can tell you with supreme confidence that the AMD parts are just as capable. they look good software and driver support but the hardware itself. Is completely capable of doing these tasks. Will it be as high performing as a dedicated Cuda core. Not really. but it would be 80% as good but using other hardware on the card could easily accomodate for this.

GPU's are essentially fancy parrellel calculators. They can all do these tasks. Several of the issues however stem from the OS and the software vendors themselves and the hardware manufacturers not really stepping up to leverage these things.

I am writing a intergrated kernel module for a alternative OS which will put int he kernel the GPU math and function alibrary code. With a aggresive threading OS design the encourgaes multithreadings "not a late model add on" its very easy to spawn thread to run in the gpu hardware to increase compute power.

Its pretty heady stuff. Still trying to get my head around it but at the end of the day. Nvidia has a small hardware advantage and a huge software advantage.

 

[akugami]

I agree, video hardware reviews seem trend paint by numbers these days. My favorite example is the emerging class of monitors/televisions that cooperatively offload processing overhead from the gpu and the lack of coverage.

I have no clue what you're talking about. Links please.

I have a ton of family h.264 clips piling up because I can't sit at my computer all week waiting for encode jobs to finish. Yet I can't justify the $700 price for premier pro. Is there any second or third best program around $150 that at least takes some advantage of my gtx480?

Two things you can do. Queue the work for encoding overnight while you're asleep with your current software or buy pro level software like Premiere. And on the subject of Premiere you can keep an eye out on Premiere Elements 9 which may or may not contain CUDA support. It'll probably be a couple of years before CUDA support trickles down to most consumer level software. That's simply the nature of the beast.

 

[Janooo]

NV deserves all the credit for CUDA.
AMD is behind them with OpenCL. They need to wake up, especially with Fusion around the corner. How do they want to utilize the APU?

 

[DaveSimmons]

I doubt there are huge numbers of amateurs buying $715 (Amazon price) packages to edit their home movies, but it would still be an interesting article to see the GPU speedup and which nv cards really do offer near real-time editing.

I only use my video card for gaming but this would still be worth reading

 

[Kenmitch]

NV deserves all the credit for CUDA.
AMD is behind them with OpenCL. They need to wake up, especially with Fusion around the corner. How do they want to utilize the APU?

I don't see anything wrong with CUDA and using it's features to benefit the industry or your own personal needs. You paid for a feature and you should get the best use out of it.

Why take pot shots at AMD/ATI with it tho. The way I see it when the time comes and the benefit to incorporate features like this will pay off AMD has the advantage seeing as they have all the cpu IP which nvidia lacks.

If you can add the GPU to the CPU then you can also add some CPU to the GPU don't ya think

As far as fusion goes....It's a wait and see what happens kinda thing.

 

[rolodomo]

Wreckage, thanks for the links. Lots of good leads there. I could probably use some of those programs for separate transcoding of my edited video. Cool.

Akugami, yep, that's a good option. I was referring to the latest televisions that can perform powerful video processing on standard hdmi signals output by a gpu, such as image smoothing and 2d to 3d conversion. I wish I could point you to review discussing the pros and cons......

 

[ModestGamer]

What noone really talks about is that to get this working 100% the right way we need alot of this integrated into the Operating system itself.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Having read the AMD white papers on cypress rv7xx etc. I can tell you with supreme confidence that the AMD parts are just as capable.

Really? Exception handling, cache hierarchy, cache amount, available resgisters, thread scheduling. Those are five off the top of my head that aren't comparable.

GPU's are essentially fancy parrellel calculators.

Reading all the RV700s documentation would certainly give you that impression, so I can understand where it comes from

You really think nV used all those extra transistors on nothing? They came with a steep cost, but the benefits are very real for those that would use them(and that is what this thread is about).

Two things you can do. Queue the work for encoding overnight while you're asleep with your current software or buy pro level software like Premiere.

For $150? In all honesty, Wreckage gave him a much better answer. He linked test results for numerous encoding programs that fall well within his budget and depending on what he is doing can offer a substantial benefit(even a 260 throttles an i7 in the more demanding tests).

 

[Janooo]

I don't see anything wrong with CUDA and using it's features to benefit the industry or your own personal needs. You paid for a feature and you should get the best use out of it.

Why take pot shots at AMD/ATI with it tho. The way I see it when the time comes and the benefit to incorporate features like this will pay off AMD has the advantage seeing as they have all the cpu IP which nvidia lacks.

If you can add the GPU to the CPU then you can also add some CPU to the GPU don't ya think

As far as fusion goes....It's a wait and see what happens kinda thing.

It's a fact that AMD is behind with OpenCL. If they were not then they would make much more money.